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LETTER: Questions still loom around Hickman incident

Friday, October 24, 2008 | 11:03 a.m. CDT; updated 1:06 p.m. CDT, Monday, August 30, 2010

The recent incident which involved the Police Department and Hickman High School students was instructive to us all regarding police behavior during a crisis. The incident was a crisis.

The most disconcerting action was the deliberate decision to return the officer to Hickman before the investigation of the incident and his behavior had been completed.

The following are some questions that citizens, parents, police and the school system ought to be seeking answers to that will enable them to preserve and protect the school environment in a responsible manner.

  1. Who made the decision to return the officer to Hickman after the altercation seen on TV?
  2. What was the process used to make that decision?
  3. Did the mayor or city council members inquire about it or give any approval?
  4. Is this a normal procedure when an officer is involved in a questionable act, to return him to duty where a violent situation is being investigated?
  5. Are there unwritten policies of procedures to address matters of this kind? Can we see them?
  6. Did the principal of Hickman or the school administration have any say in this matter?
  7. Did the school raise any questions regarding the officer's return?
  8. Did the school request the officer's return before the matter was investigated and the officer was cleared?
  9. Have you developed any plans to address future incidents of the kind that occurred at Hickman?
  10. Has the school administration suggested any actions policies, or procedures to you?
  11. When do you expect the investigation to be completed?
  12. Is the school system planning an investigation? What do they perceive as their responsibility to address potential occurrences or reoccurrences of incidents akin to this recent incident at Hickman?

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Comments

Charles Dudley Jr October 24, 2008 | 12:32 p.m.

All of this talk is moot since nobody wants to address the real root of this ongoing problem.

(Report Comment)
John Schultz October 24, 2008 | 1:24 p.m.

How would you solve the parental problem Chuck? Let's hear it.

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro October 24, 2008 | 1:53 p.m.

I watched the Hickman teenagers fight video and noticed that there was a woman trying to hold back Diamond "in the rough" Thrower "me into any good old fight."
The adult supervisor was obviously aware of Diamond's intent to "join in the ruckus" and Diamond obviously broke away from this woman's grasp and disobeyed the adult's wishes.
Doesn't this "family," and those who are trying to avert attention away from the perpetrators, realize that they are coming across as ignorant, arrogant, greedy opportunists who only draw resentment from those who know better? These people are just trying to "game" the system and CPD and Bill Watkins should take a stand in favor of Officer Brotemarkle and the swift way he secured the situation.
This "Thrower" girl should have her "mentor" explain that "good" intentions fueled by impulsive emotions and behavior doesn't always mean that you've made a good choice.
A good mentor should help the kid grow up to understand the "big picture" and not just tell her what she wants to hear. I'm sick and tired of adults who think that babying their little "angel's" ego and "self-esteem" is good parenting. It only creates a "we against the world" scenario and perpetuates distance and animosity.
She chose to "jump into the fight" and that is wrong for any student to do. Stop playing the victim and grow up!
How many teenagers have mentors/family spokesman at Hickman anyways? Is this a new trend to replace dads? (Does Diamond Thrower "me into any good fight" have someone assigned to do her homework while she attends the Hickman fight club over-seen by her own personal trainer? When does she plan to get a publicist? Will there be a book deal?) Now this little girl got embarrassed, had her "feeling" hurt so an attorney will get her sympathy,publicity and money. What does she learn from that when she witnesses another fight she wants to join in on?
Too much emphasis is being placed on Officer Brotemarkle trying to do his job and not enough on the consequences the fighting teens, including Diamond Thrower, need to face.
Officer Brotemarkle doesn't deserve to suffer at Hickman any longer. He deserves immediate removal, a medal and a promotion!
Let the teenage punks, bullies, strong-armers, system scamers, drug dealers run Hickman. Maybe then we'll hear about some good, decent parents getting involved to back up the administrators and law enforcement officials in our community!
(Jump into a high school fight, get busted and hire an attorney--what a laugh and how disrespectful to the adults trying to do their job!)

(Report Comment)
Charles Dudley Jr October 24, 2008 | 8:35 p.m.

Your response is typical John Schultz being you hate to help or present solutions to problems but you sure are quick to ask others their opinions and then afterward point out how flawed they are.

So being I know you are a parent John Schultz I will in turn ask you the same question as such just how would you as a parent of children in the CPS system past and possibly present suggest to these parents of troubled school kids what they can do to improve their lives,how their children are educated in the home and more.

I ask this being you obviously care about what is going on or you would not be posting as such so let's hear what the Chairman of the Libertarian Party of Boone County who you are has to say about the parents and their roles in educating their children in the home so when they do go out they can be responsible citizens.

After all this should not be a hard question for you being the fine upstanding local citizen such as yourself who was chosen as your local party leader because of your fine upstanding values which somebody recognized.

Let's hear what the Libertarian has to say on this issue.

(Report Comment)
John Schultz October 24, 2008 | 11:26 p.m.

Chuck, you moan and whine about no one saying anything about the parents, so I gave you a mile-high soapbox to preach to us on. You said nobody wants to address it, apparently you are lumped in that category. Please do so. First, you'll probably have to make some assumptions about the two girls in the fight at Hickman. Was this their first fight, had they been in previous scrapes, etc.? Do you treat first-time offenders the same as repeat offenders? How do you hold the parents accountable? Kick the kids out and make the parents pay for the kids to go to private school?

I don't know how to fix "bad" parents (and we don't even know if these girls parents are "bad" since we know nothing about them or their history). I can't imagine parents not wanting to help their kids out and raising them properly, teaching them to respect teachers, other students, and so forth. I can't understand why the parents of Cortez Johnson treated him the way he did before his death. I don't know that any of us truly can.

And my kids aren't in the CPS system so I'm not as engaged on this topic as I hope the thousands of parents whose kids are attending the district might be.

(Report Comment)
Charles Dudley Jr October 25, 2008 | 5:40 a.m.

John Schultz you crack me up as a civic leader due to instead of addressing an issue you in turn attack others asking legitimate questions as concerned citizens about the issues rather crassly I might say as well. Is that how you as a civic leader take care of and answer questions by concerned citizens is avoiding the issues and by launching personal attacks? You're sounding just like John McCain now.

Ok you ask what I would do,which I was hoping beyond hope it seems to see answers by you on this subject.

For the parents of these troubled teens CPS has to deal with now:

First thing would be mandatory teacher,mental health professional,law enforcement counciling of the parents of any and all of these troubled teens with in the CPS system if they were to remain with in the CPS system. No exceptions. Period. This would be done as a group project/therapy type of sessions on the most professional of levels and standards. If the parents did not comply then their kids would not be allowed in the system.

It is not fair to all of the good parents and good hard working children to have to have this kind of trouble around.

You say that is tough love? Dam straight!

Second the same kind of mandatory counciling for any and all troubled teens of the CPS system with the same penalties included of not being able to participate in the system. School is a privilege and not a right and as such children and parents need to learn to respect that fact.

Both of these programs could be run or modeled off of the current Mental Health or Drug Court Systems in place now only with out the daily check in's as they do but there even could be a kind of "check in" if it was set up correctly.

If a child causes trouble of this kind even after these programs are in place then you have the programs up and running to deal with the issue.

You ask what would this do for parents still looking to bring their kids into the CPS system? The above sends a strong message that these kinds of problems will not be tolerated in the CPS system and will be dealt with as such. It is time that the CPS system take back it's schools and how they are run from the kids and the unruly parents of those kids and put that power back into their own hands and that of the teachers themselves instead of letting the kids and parents run the show.

Accountability is the prime goal.

Back when I was in school that behavior was not tolerated one bit by the teachers,the school principles nor the school district as a whole and rest assured I watched alot of very bad kids get expelled from the school I attended never to come back nor be allowed into another school in the district.

That was how it was back in the day but in these days we live in to often times it seems we as a society have become too soft and lenient in our ways of dealing with the problems in our schools and the home in general.

John Schultz there are some concise and very thought worthy ideas.

(Report Comment)
John Schultz October 25, 2008 | 10:39 a.m.

Chuck, your attitude is getting pretty tiring, but the personal attacks are nothing new with you. I am not a "civic leader" unless you want to put the same name tag on yourself due to your advocacy for the disabled and your Paquin program. I am a citizen and I'm sorry I don't have all the answers like the high and mighty Chuck Dudley thinks I should.

Now that you finally brought something to the table, tell me how you would fund such a program? Where are you going to find the additional employees, especially police officers, for this program? Why limit your program to only teens? What about parents whose kids aren't even in school yet, such as the Cortez Johnson murder that I mentioned and you didn't address?

(Report Comment)
Charles Dudley Jr October 25, 2008 | 11:15 a.m.

John Schultz your demeanor is not much better so you have no where to talk by far.

Unless you did not realize when you take any title in any office in any organization you just became a civic leader John Schultz. Being you are the "Chairman" of the Libertarian Party of Boone County you are in fact a civic leader.

I on the other hand have no title,hold no offices in any public organizations unless you count a once a month meeting where I read pre prepared for me monthly minutes as a "civic office" I am nowhere close to a civic leader but I am for sure a concerned citizen. There is a difference if you did not realize.

Now back to where the program personnel would come from? Why not utilize who is already there now? Why must money be allocated or spent on more personnel? All of the resources are already there all anybody who would head the program would have to do is put the pieces of the puzzle together.

If you had read my post you would see obviously how this program would send a message to those parents with children still in the very lower grades and those still to put their children in school. This program serves a dual purpose not only for the kids now but for the kids to come.

There is nothing that can be done about the past but you sure can do something about the future!

For the case you mention I am not familiar with that case so will not comment.

This is about the issue before us now John Schultz and as such it is also about any and all concerned citizens speaking up on the issues the effect this city as a whole.

John Schultz if you do not like my presentation what do you suggest. I am sure we would all like to read your presentation as well.

(Report Comment)
John Schultz October 25, 2008 | 11:37 a.m.

Use existing personnel? Have you not heard, and even spoken, of how the schools and police department are already strapped for people? I don't see how you put this additional tasks on the existing staff, but feel free to take this idea to CPD and CPS if you think it will work instead of just talking about it here. Then you too can become a civic leader.

I don't think it would work as a "scare tactic" for parents. How many people don't care about their kids now would be concerned about them getting booted out of school ten years from now?

The problem is that there are some people who shouldn't be raising kids, but it's darn hard to eliminate that problem. Go to do a Google News search on Cortez Johnson and let me know how we handle such a problem like that.

(Report Comment)
Charles Dudley Jr October 25, 2008 | 11:58 a.m.

John Schultz why does everything have to cost money with you or more time? Don't you know how to utilize time and work with time management constraints as a whole.

As I presented all of the resources are in place and as such it only takes putting the obvious pieces of the puzzle together. That is not my job but it is the jobs of the resource managers of those types of agencies mentioned in my post above.

John Schultz I am sure many civic leaders read our opinions not only here but on alot of the politically driven blogs here around the area and if they don't then maybe they should after all you do obviously.

It is called "Proactive in Prevention".

I will look up that story later on but for now this issue we are on is the "main focus" and not going off track unless your obvious anger issues with me prevent you from doing just that. Focusing.

(Report Comment)
John Schultz October 25, 2008 | 12:25 p.m.

Chuck, the only one with anger issues appears to be you when someone dares to criticize your ideas.

I bring up time and money because that is what CPD and CPS will bring up if you ever take your proposal to them. Yes, some people read our discourse here and elsewhere, but don't assume that it gets everywhere. If it is not your job to put the obvious pieces together, is it your job to take your proposal to those who can do so? I have taken possible concerns or solutions to those with the power to make those changes in the past, why won't you do so now?

The Cortez Johnson case relates directly to your parental accountability you brought up in another recent comment, so please look it over sometime and let me know how society could have prevented that.

(Report Comment)
Charles Dudley Jr October 25, 2008 | 12:34 p.m.

Not so John Schultz as on not only here but on Trib Board and other blogs you would rather attack those concerned citizens who present views as I do instead of first presenting any solutions. It is just how you are wired John Schultz.

(Report Comment)
John Schultz October 25, 2008 | 1:01 p.m.

Chuck, you have no idea how I'm wired. Bet you didn't know I'll be helping a local charity pack and mail 1100 care packages to deployed Marines next weekend. Probably didn't think us mean Libertarians had that in our nature or did you have me figured out all wrong?

Discuss the issues not the people Chuck, that seems to be your problem. I don't care what you say or think about me, but I'll defend myself as necessary.

(Report Comment)
Charles Dudley Jr October 25, 2008 | 1:23 p.m.

>>>Discuss the issues not the people.<<<

Take your own advise John Schultz since you do the same things but when is being a hypocrite stop being a hypocrite John Schultz when you do the same things over and over.

Congrats on the care packages that is quite nice.

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro October 25, 2008 | 2:23 p.m.

Some guy posted an interesting approach to getting parents and kids in trouble some corrective behavior modification. I think it's worth mentioning here...

Somebody asked me to post a possible solution to this ongoing problem not only at HHS but what could be done in these types of issues in our schools across this country and as such here is some real tough and grounded solutions.

For the parents of these troubled teens CPS has to deal with now:

First thing would be mandatory teacher,mental health professional,law enforcement counciling of the parents of any and all of these troubled teens with in the CPS system if they were to remain with in the CPS system. No exceptions. Period. This would be done as a group project/therapy type of sessions on the most professional of levels and standards. If the parents did not comply then their kids would not be allowed in the system.

It is not fair to all of the good parents and good hard working children to have to have this kind of trouble around.

You say that is tough love? Dam straight!

Second the same kind of mandatory counciling for any and all troubled teens of the CPS system with the same penalties included of not being able to participate in the system. School is a privilege and not a right and as such children and parents need to learn to respect that fact.

Both of these programs could be run or modeled off of the current Mental Health or Drug Court Systems in place now only with out the daily check in's as they do but there even could be a kind of "check in" if it was set up correctly.

If a child causes trouble of this kind even after these programs are in place then you have the programs up and running to deal with the issue.

You ask what would this do for parents still looking to bring their kids into the CPS system? The above sends a strong message that these kinds of problems will not be tolerated in the CPS system and will be dealt with as such. It is time that the CPS system take back it's schools and how they are run from the kids and the unruly parents of those kids and put that power back into their own hands and that of the teachers themselves instead of letting the kids and parents run the show.

Accountability is the prime goal.

Back when I was in school that behavior was not tolerated one bit by the teachers,the school principles nor the school district as a whole and rest assured I watched alot of very bad kids get expelled from the school I attended never to come back nor be allowed into another school in the district.

That was how it was back in the day but in these days we live in to often times it seems we as a society have become too soft and lenient in our ways of dealing with the problems in our schools and the home in general.

- Posted by: Chuck65201 | October 25, 2008 11:46 AM

(Report Comment)
Charles Dudley Jr October 25, 2008 | 3:02 p.m.

Same guy ray shapiro and thanks for the props.

(Report Comment)
Marlon Jordan October 27, 2008 | 6:56 a.m.

Lets start a petition to keep his job, even though the officer violated or attempted to violate my right to public accommodations and freedom of speech. I stand for truth and the truth is the student could of chosen an alternative to break up this fight and she is smart, i'm told, but not wise and their is a difference. Now the black folks has to rally behind her, because they are the ones really responsible for not teaching her that stopping the violence really means that U and only u can control u. My complaints are not about an officer serving an arrest warrant or attempting to make an arrest, because the officer's discretion observed me in the act of commiting a crime. Nor do any of them pertain to an officer doing his or her lawful job. For example, the Mall incident. Alva Scott is stupid anytime u follow the ill advise of an officer who okays for u to go into a dangerous situation to get your child, when u don't know what is really going on in there.I see a very thin line between what the student did, it was stupid! I thought they wanted kids to snitch, she would of not gotten injured if she of been wise and dailed 911 or screamed out for the police.

(Report Comment)
Charles Dudley Jr October 27, 2008 | 7:38 a.m.

No Marlon Jordan let's start a nation wide petition to hold all parents accountable for their childrens outrageous behaviors they exhibit in our school systems that interrupt the other children from being able to concentrate on their school work which is as it should be.

Also stop pulling the race card as it is so over used.

This is a individual lack of responsibility/accountability people/parent issue not anything else.

(Report Comment)
Marlon Jordan October 27, 2008 | 7:41 a.m.

I have a true story to tell, about a fight that I attempted to break up. It is very similar to the way in which Officer Brotemarkle probably viewed Throwers participation in the disturbance.

It was back in 2005, one night after getting off of work at CC’s City Broiler. As I drove towards home on Worley and Garth streets, I noticed that a large group of youths were fighting and had the traffic backed up. I was pissed to have to experience this after a hard nights work. I got out my car and begin to separate those two girls. Lots of cars begin to show up with others wanting to fight. I was successful in breaking up the fight, but while doing so I was grabbed from behind, because someone thought I might be involved, or worst that I could be giving the other person an advantage to get licks in. I had my employee shirt torn off my back, and thankfully, the police showed up, before I got the worst end of it all. Then the cowards started to run away.
As I began back towards my parked car, I noticed that Wynna Faye Elbert and Councilwoman Almeta Crayton were driving up the street and they looked at me. They went straight to Mrs. Ralphs house, who had been standing in her doorway the entire time the fight was going on. I told the young people loudly that this is way I don’t mess with u, because all u want to do is beat up and kill each other, but when the police come, u run. My point is this. How were these two able to know exactly who was fighting and who was trying to break it up? They had no clue whatsoever! In fact, they never said anything to me, even unto this very day. Never asked if I was alright or needed medical help. I was also still in the middle of all this when the police arrived. People were still sort of mouthing off and pushing and shoving going on. One person bump into an officer and he placed her under arrest. I can tell another true story, about violence in 2001. This time I actually did get beat down by some youths, for trying to stop them from fighting. Only one was actually prosecuted. I was told that if I wanted any others arrested, then they would arrest me as well, I was told this by Officer Bruce Houston and Barbara Buck.. He then took the police on a high speed chase and his car ended up in a yard on Paris road. I know, me and my son are the scum of Columbia. However, how often have we placed the officers lives in danger? One guy shot at my son, a few months later he almost runs over Brotemarkle who was on his patrol bike. I want white people to call these people on their crap.Part of the reason why i am disabled is due to repeated kicks to my lower back.

(Report Comment)
Charles Dudley Jr October 27, 2008 | 8:09 a.m.

The obvious problem is Marlon Jordan that Thrower should not have jumped into the foray at HHS and neither should have you yourself in either matter. That is the job of the police and why they are there.

On your last comment about "I want white people to call these people on their crap" well I think that is more obvious racism on your part of your view of this matter as a whole. At least that is how it comes across to me.

Once again this is not a race issue! It is a personal people/parent accountability and responsibility issue with raising their children in a positive,nurturing home environment.

The race card does not work in our society today as it did in the 1960's because people know the differences and those who don't obviously need some serious help in their own lives.

(Report Comment)
Marlon Jordan October 27, 2008 | 1:56 p.m.

Like i said charles , ask me questions, if u don't understand. I don't care about this issue, i got my own and that is what i am referring too! IF U WANT TO SEE WHAT I AM ABOUT, U SHOULD NOT GOOGLE ME, BUT ASK! The last time i read the most updated Missouri, Federal and local constitutions, they have articles and amendments, relating to and for the enforcemennt of protected classes of citizens. If u don't like it change it, quit whinning about it and do something about it. As long as those statues exist people like me will use them and u hate the fact that they exist and can't change it. U mad and frustrated because u can't use it. Kind of like a card game, u mad because u never get the big and little jokers to use. Go live under MaGabe, and see how well u fair under an all black power structure. I'd tell magabe, i want that land that Charles has, and he'd boot u right out of the country. In fact, he already did what ur people did to the Native American, took the white peoples land and businesses and booted them right out. If u don't like it go and tell the world i am a racist! Go live where black folks run everything, and then come holla at me about being a racist. Please someone help send me and charles to Zimbabwe for ten years to live and then see who has fared the best. Bet charles be back before i will and broke, maybe even beat up, it is a hostle environment over there. Lastly, i have a gag order relating to employmment discrimination, based on race, and it was in my favor. Therefore, that trumps ur assertion.The date sure doesn't have a 1960's date.Not to mention the recent findings relating to the Nascar industry, based on race 2008.

(Report Comment)
Ayn Rand October 27, 2008 | 2:32 p.m.

Marlon, if you are an adult, you should consider enrolling in a English as a Second Language program. Nobody is going to take you seriously as long as you write like that.

(Report Comment)
Marlon Jordan October 30, 2008 | 6:42 a.m.

Why? U comprehended it very well! Besides, action speaks louder than words

(Report Comment)

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