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Columbia City Council bike ordinance is unfair to motorists

Tuesday, June 23, 2009 | 12:01 a.m. CDT; updated 9:39 a.m. CDT, Tuesday, July 7, 2009

As experienced by most, maturation has increased my tolerance for attitudes and actions that heretofore set my teeth on edge. I now accept that there are those who differ from me politically, philosophically and socially. I have learned to tolerate (barely) the cacophonous and obnoxious bass noises emanating from automobile radio; the March Madness of Dick Vitale; 9th Street, intersection and off-ramp panhandlers; Al Gore; TV pitchman Billy Mays; the Dallas Cowboys and, most recently, KU students and alumni.

When it comes to bicycles, however, I am sorry to say my acceptability quotient has bottomed out. Please belay that — I have nothing against bicycles per se. I have owned many, beginning with a balloon-tired Monkey Ward's Hawthorne in 1944 and progressing through multi-speed and mountain varieties for me and my three sons. Biking is a health-friendly exercise as well as a fun and economical means of transportation — weather and road conditions permitting.

The problem I am beginning to experience is not with bicycles, but rather with cyclists and some of their elitist attitudes. It is not unlike an observation of one I know, who, after visiting France, opined “Paris would be a good place to spend a vacation if not for those darn Parisians.” Translated, one might observe “If not for cyclists, the bicycle would be an acceptable mode of transport.”

Before a mob of two-wheeled enthusiasts comes for me with tar, feathers and a fence rail, let me make it clear that most of the cyclists I observe are safety-conscious, road-sharing, law-abiding and courteous. As does the motorized population, they have their share of scofflaws, cowboys, maniacs and idiots who menace the roads and highways. However, the $25 million federal grant awarded the city of Columbia for a non-motorized pilot project to make the city more bike- and pedestrian-friendly has created a cultist atmosphere among a segment of the bikers, resulting in an “us vs. them” confrontation with automobiles.

Along with many Columbia residents, I am skeptical of the propriety of committing taxpayer monies to a transportation project of this magnitude when so many of the streets and sidewalks are in such a sorry state of repair. As an example of misdirected priorities, the painting of the cute little bicycle symbols and the marking of bike lanes may be aesthetically pleasing but, are a complete waste of funds — cyclists who require traffic directional markings and lanes have no business riding in traffic. And, it would appear the designers failed to consider that streets might need resurfacing, thus wiping out the markings.

I am also skeptical of the proposed green-striped turn lanes, bicycle-only streets, conversion of high-traffic intersections and, particularly, a proposal for back-in rather than parallel parking on Ash Street. The accrual of traffic jams and dings and dents caused by reverse-challenged motorists to prevent an obscure happenstance of a cyclist colliding with an open door seems a bit hard to digest.

But the last straw is the ill-conceived, just-passed Columbia City Council ordinance making it a class A misdemeanor to harass cyclists by throwing objects, honking or shouting for the purpose of frightening, disturbing or threatening them. While no one in his or her right mind could possibly condone hurling missiles, does it not appear somewhat odd to afford cyclists a special standing not available to us motorists? Why, may I ask, is it acceptable to yell at and honk one’s horn at a motor-vehicle operator who has executed a knucklehead stunt but not cricket for a miscreant cyclist?

This ordinance all but elevates the disturbing of cyclists to hate crime status. In my opinion, the council has, in overreacting to the plaint of a few prima donna bikers, created an “Animal Farm” environment in which, though all vehicles are equal, some are now more equal than others. We are all, or should be, adults. As motorists must realize the streets must be shared with the non-motorized, cyclists must also be aware that some streets are far from bike-friendly, particularly during peak traffic hours.

Additionally, bikers should understand that riding in tandem at 12 mph is not going to win many friends among motorists when the posted speed limit is 30 or 40 mph. Columbians have no problem with the city’s designation as bike- and pedestrian-friendly; nevertheless, achieving this status to the detriment of motorists is both arrogant and shortsighted. When one considers the demographics of Columbia and Boone County, the percentage of those who can even consider biking or walking as a primary transportation mode is quite small.

Finally, if cyclists really wish to become equal partners in our traffic, perhaps they would agree to become licensed operators along with purchasing a bicycle license and insurance?

J. Karl Miller retired as a colonel in the Marine Corps. He is a Columbia resident and can be reached via e-mail at JKarlUSMC@aol.com.


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Comments

Ellis Smith June 23, 2009 | 6:32 a.m.

Finally, some sanity is introduced to this ridiculous issue.

(Report Comment)
Charles Dudley Jr June 23, 2009 | 7:16 a.m.

>>> Finally, if cyclists really wish to become equal partners in our traffic, perhaps they would agree to become licensed operators along with purchasing a bicycle license and insurance? <<<

Yes finally another voice of reason!! Very well presented issue Mr Miller.

(Report Comment)
Greg Collins June 23, 2009 | 7:45 a.m.

"In my opinion, the council has, in overreacting to the plaint of a few prima donna bikers, created an “Animal Farm” environment in which, though all vehicles are equal, some are now more equal than others."

That appears to have been precisely the point of this inane expensive publicly funded exercise ...

Scofflaws and morons -- whether 4 wheeled or 2 wheeled -- are deeply, almost existentially annoying. Speaking strictly for me, those opting to behave badly on public roads will continue to receive a horn blast, harsh words and a single digit salute for their stupidity ... even at the risk of being in violation of Columbia ordinance for startling them and thus throwing their special chosen groove off.

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro June 23, 2009 | 9:45 a.m.

@J. Karl Miller:
Great article. Honest and full of truth.
Personally, I blame the City Council for drinking the Mayor's "Kool-Aid."
Obviously, the Mayor has more influence over the council then the best interests of their constituency.
One man's obsession and fanaticism should never impact a council's judgment and divide a town as much as this elitist cyclist has.

(Report Comment)
Mark Foecking June 23, 2009 | 9:51 a.m.

I wasn't sure if I was for this ordinance or not when it first passed - that's part of the reason I didn't go to the council meeting, However, consider this:

If most people drove double-botton semi's, and all you could afford to drive was a Geo Metro, wouldn't you want a little extra protection also?

DK

(Report Comment)
Mark Foecking June 23, 2009 | 9:53 a.m.

Ray, stop it. This was not the mayor's bill. All he did was vote for it, like all the other council people did. It gets very old to hear you keep blaming this on Hindman.

DK

(Report Comment)
Charles Dudley Jr June 23, 2009 | 9:59 a.m.

Mark Foecking why should ray stop? Are you and your bike buddies afraid of the truth being exposed for what it is.

(Report Comment)
Mark Foecking June 23, 2009 | 10:02 a.m.

Chuck, if it were true, that would be one thing. It's not true, however. Others outside of the Council came up with this legislation - Hindman had nothing to do with it.

DK

(Report Comment)
Charles Dudley Jr June 23, 2009 | 10:21 a.m.

Mark Foecking how do you know that for a fact? Have you used the Sunshine Law to gather all of the evidence to back up your statement? It is a fact the Mayor's son in law is apart of the GetAbout thing.

This might be no different than what Hank Waters tried to pull with the Historical Society Fiasco and Country Club Gate for all we really know.

Maybe this will be another great use of the Sunshine Law in presenting the real story behind this ordinance.

I trust our Mayor and City Manager about as far as I or anybody can drop kick them through the goal posts of life and I am getting that same feeling about some on City Council too.

(Report Comment)
Mark Foecking June 23, 2009 | 10:23 a.m.

From the Council minutes of March 2, 2009:

"Ms. Hoppe understood the Council received an e-mail regarding a mother and her son
who were threatened in a hostile manner on Broadway by a vehicle. She noted she had
heard about many other incidents as well. She understood the City did not have an
ordinance to penalize cars that were threatening pedestrians and bicyclists when there was
not an actual injury.
Ms. Hoppe made a motion directing staff to draft an ordinance, and noted she had a
sample ordinance from South Carolina, which made it a misdemeanor for anyone to harass,
taunt or maliciously throw an object in the direction of a bicyclist or pedestrian. The motion
was seconded by Mr. Janku and approved unanimously by voice vote."

DK

(Report Comment)
Greg Collins June 23, 2009 | 10:27 a.m.

"If most people drove double-botton semi's, and all you could afford to drive was a Geo Metro, wouldn't you want a little extra protection also?"

I'd make damned sure I stopped at stop signs, and was a courteous participant on the public roads ...

(Report Comment)
Mark Foecking June 23, 2009 | 10:51 a.m.

Oh, I am. I'd imagine most drivers never notice me.

DK

(Report Comment)
John Schultz June 23, 2009 | 1:15 p.m.

Well Chuck, if you think there is some deep dark conspiracy, file your Sunshine Request and let us know what you find out. Why complain about it without the facts when they can be easily obtained?

Also, claiming that this ordinance is on par with Hank's dealings with the State Historical Society trivializes the loss of property the Raders almost encountered.

(Report Comment)
Charles Dudley Jr June 23, 2009 | 4:08 p.m.

>>> Also, claiming that this ordinance is on par with Hank's dealings with the State Historical Society trivializes the loss of property the Raders almost encountered. <<<

Not so John as it brings into light just how low the City Mayor,City Manager and some on City Council just might go. Just look at past track records of all three of the above mentioned and honestly tell everybody here there have not been some pretty dam shady dealings in the past. The H.S. was just one that quickly comes to mind.

I am sure citizens who have lived here all of their lives can post for days on shady dealings by past Mayors,City Managers and City Councils.

It seems to be the status quo how the good ole boy network runs this city or as another poster included the good ole girl network as well.

I agree with Mr Miller this ordinance is unfair to motorists and there was already a law on the Missouri Law Books covering this issue that was posted on another like thread.

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro June 24, 2009 | 6:05 a.m.

No good Public Relations will come from this ordinance.
It was not necessary and is just another example of an attempt to appease "worried" cyclists, while advancing a much bigger agenda.
The wedge it creates between motorists and cyclists is great.
Publication of existing laws which address "feelings and beliefs" of imminent harm could have been disseminated in partnership between GetAbout, PedNet. CPD and the Automobile Association.
The tactless approach used by our City Leaders has left a "bad-taste" in the mouths of many motoring Columbia residents.
I agree with J Karl Miller's article that the ordinance is an unfair ordinance, in principal, and it should be rescinded.
If one wants to elevate the respectability and perceived integrity of cyclists, I would think that bicycle Identification tags, (some kind of illuminated license plate), and nominal insurance should be mandated.
Perhaps some of that "25 million dollars to make Columbia more "bike-friendly" could be used to underwrite this more important need.
All i see for Columbia's future is a town which is necoming more and more car-unfriendly.

(Report Comment)
John Schultz June 24, 2009 | 8:30 a.m.

Ray, do any insurance companies even offer bike insurance? I thought this had been discussed on the old Trib Forum and the answer was no. If you feel that insurance and plates are such a big issue though, you can draft an ordinance and try to run it by your councilperson or the council at large.

Frankly, a lot of the outrage over this ordinance feels pretty contrived to me. I've never had to yell or honk at a biker, and thus I'm not going to reported for such an action (and if I did, I don't think it would stick as I have mentioned before).

The majority of bikers in Columbia seem to follow the rules of the road, just as the majority of car drivers. There are bad apples in both barrels that bring down the ire of the other party.

(Report Comment)
Mark Foecking June 24, 2009 | 8:55 a.m.

Some homeowner's policies cover a cyclist's liabilities when they are away from their homes (I don't know if mine does - it certainly doesn't cover very much any more). Since cyclists cause so little damage on the average, the only way it would be worth it for a company to underwite bike insurance is as a rider on an existing policy. If a cyclist did not have homeowners or auto insurance, he probably couldn't get insurance.

Ray, have you seen the size of the city's bike licenses? They're little stickers that stick on the bike's frame. You can't read them more than a few feet away.

A bicycle doesn't have a good place to hold a full size license plate, and a small one would be useless as far as reading it from a distance.

Licensing and insurance are not going to happen because it's too expensive for the benefit gained. Plus it wouldn't solve the problems you keep bringing up.

DK

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro June 24, 2009 | 9:13 a.m.

@JS:
("Ray, do any insurance companies even offer bike insurance?")
I'm not talking to you.
(Well at least for a couple of days, anyway.)

(Report Comment)
John Schultz June 24, 2009 | 11:14 a.m.

You just did. Nyah nyah nyah.

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro June 24, 2009 | 12:58 p.m.

@JS:
Oops...

(Report Comment)
Laura Froese June 24, 2009 | 5:11 p.m.

Karl,
I am pleased that you see the benefits of biking, and understand that not only is it a cheap means for transportation but good for one's health as well.
I am concerned however that your article does nothing to address the real issue- road rage. Bicyclists account for a very small segment of the road warriors. And the complaints are way out of proportion to the problem.
Nor are all cyclist's elitists. You did say only some, but I would like to know WHICH 'some' you think are the elitist's?
Bicyclist's are a diverse group: some are alcoholics that have lost their license, some are working poor, some are college students, some are doctors and lawyers. Nor are they necessarily tree huggers. There are just as many democrats that ride bikes as republicans. Some commute, and some are competetive athletes.
While I do think the ordinance stepped out of bounds to disallow honking, I don't think it will make a real difference.
Car Drivers are very aggressive out there. Today, while driving home on stadium, a girl in a Grand Am swang out from a left turn lane and over two lanes to cut in front of my car. Not 100 yards down the road, another person gave the finger to another car. I saw 1 bicyclist, who was wearing a helmet and was stopped at the stewart road stop light.
Calling cyclist's elitists is only stirring up irrational anger. I think that if you did what your coworker did-Jordan?- and took a ride on your bike around downtown or Campus, you might just gain a lot of insight into the real issue.
Thanks, Laura Froese

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro June 24, 2009 | 6:04 p.m.

@Colonel Miller:
That's how they try to change people. They send out these "recruiters" the same way those L Ron Hubbard drones tell you to take inventory, or those freakish "moonies," Hare Krishnas and 7th day evangelists. (Personally I like those 7th day evangelists because they advocate "rest.")
Any way, Pednuts entice you to just try one "trip."
(They hope you'll succumb to the fresh air, (cough-cough) and the breeze in your hair, (like we have any left.)
Next thing you know, you're the healthiest corpse in the cemetery.
I'll pass, thank you. (On your left.)
Honk-Honk.

(Report Comment)
Mark Foecking June 24, 2009 | 7:35 p.m.

And it will be that much more painful for you when your friendly neighborhood gas station doesn't have any gas.

Exercise may even let you continue to snark that much longer!!
(Maybe I shouldn't encourage him.)

DK

(Report Comment)
Charles Dudley Jr June 24, 2009 | 7:36 p.m.

>>> ray shapiro June 24, 2009 | 6:04 p.m. @Colonel Miller:
That's how they try to change people. <<<

Is this just as bad as the Pod People ray? If so we better look out or we will be next.

Snark snark.

(Report Comment)
Mark Foecking June 24, 2009 | 7:48 p.m.

Get on those jogging shoes and Just Do It, Chuck!! You might add years to your life!
(Wait. Do you want to?)

DK

(Report Comment)
Charles Dudley Jr June 24, 2009 | 8:19 p.m.

Mark Foecking not if it means being a burned out PedNut like you. :)

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro June 24, 2009 | 10:03 p.m.

Pedal Pednetting Podnuts. Where do they come from?
(Snark-Snark.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gstv0-44X...

(Report Comment)
Mark Foecking June 25, 2009 | 8:41 a.m.

I'm really more of a burned-in PedNut. Neat thing about exercise is it gets easier the more you do it, unlike life in general :-)

Podnuts? Like soybeans?

DK

(Report Comment)
John Floyd June 25, 2009 | 10:44 p.m.

I love the excercise I get from biking. I have a car, I keep it up, but unless I leave the city limits I don't need to use it. I hope that the City does take more of a non-driving look at the transportation aspects of Columbia, including the bus system. I feel that if more people commuted there would be a better understanding of patience and obviously if we were driving less we would spend less on the gas which has a stranglehold on
most Americans everyday life. I am rarely seen flipping off others from my bike and don't cut across lanes of traffic, but of course I feel more like a hybrid between a walker and driver... I occupy the side of the road, but it is as much mine as it is yours [gas gusslers]. I am a jaywalker, and i sure as hell am gonna roll thru an empty intersection, maybe not on red but you can watch me do it at signs and yellows.. But I advocate safety, always look before crossing any road! How about you drivers?.. You could use your right turn signals in a line of cars, so when I come upon the light and it goes green I am not cut off by one of you, only to catch you driving off as I look up from the ground! That's right don't honk at me.. I'll be on the yellow bike enjoying my music... Get to using your feet, work on your hand-eye coordination, better your balance and burn more of your daily calories... Buy a bike, and use it. Get on your ass, and pedal! I am serious, I get everywhere on my bike, I hope we're gaining support! P.S. I am an elitist

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro June 26, 2009 | 12:49 a.m.

(From the Missourian)
"High temperatures make for high-risk exercise
Friday, June 26, 2009"

My car has A/C.
What does your bicycle have?

John Floyd says:
("Buy a bike, and use it. Get on your ass, and pedal!")
Are you on some kind of PedNet Public Relations committee or do you work for that GetAbout PR firm that was hired for 3.17 million dollars?
What a great tag line for cyclists.
It has about as much tact as the bicycle harassment ordinance.
I got one for you.
Last week I rode around Columbia to discover the wonderment all you whackos are trying to promote.
I spent the next 3 days wondering why my groin and hamstrings ached.
Bicycles are for the young, impetuous and foolhardy.
I'll pass, thank you.

(Report Comment)
Mark Foecking June 26, 2009 | 3:29 a.m.

Ray wrote:

"My car has A/C.
What does your bicycle have?"

A nice breeze!!

"I spent the next 3 days wondering why my groin and hamstrings ached."

If you actually did this (which I find difficult to believe), you just overdid it. Most sedentary people do when they start an exercise program - ask any trainer or gym rat. Ride a mile or two and work up.

Rome wasn't built in a day (and other clicheed stuff)

DK

(Report Comment)
Charles Dudley Jr June 26, 2009 | 4:35 a.m.

>>> Mark Foecking June 26, 2009 | 3:29 a.m. A nice breeze!! <<<

And nasty car smog in your face from every car and truck passing you by.

Do not deny it as we all know you do not wear an oxygen mask while you ride but you must have to breath all of that in which we all know is not healthy for anybody.

Better you that I breathing in all of that polluted air daily. I'll stick to walking my dogs several times a day every day than breathing in all of that nasty car exhaust.

At least I know I will not die from some odd ball lung cancer or lung ailment.

(Report Comment)
Mark Foecking June 26, 2009 | 4:46 a.m.

Actually the pollution from most cars in a city as small as ours is insignificant. I get a whiff of diesel exhaust every now and then (mostly from buses), but it doesn't bother me very much. I'm usually past it in a second.

If smoking unfiltered Camels for 22 years didn't give me cancer, I don't think the occasional whiff of exhaust soot will.

You breathe pollution wherever you are, even in your air/conditioned apartment, or bus. In a city, you can't get away from it.

Being sedentary is a greater risk to your health than any risk from pollution.

DK

(Report Comment)
John Schultz June 26, 2009 | 1:26 p.m.

Give 'em hell Mark, I can't wait to see what excuse they come up with next.

(Report Comment)
Charles Dudley Jr June 26, 2009 | 7:20 p.m.

Ya Mark could apply for one of those Pork Barrel type grants and do a nationwide tour on his trusty bike,taking air samples as he rides from alot of the major cities around the nation to prove his point instead of tossing out weak conjectures about the amounts of pollution intake into your lungs from following behind vehicles.

Then he can submit his findings to the W.H.O. and get himself a real published paper,a sweet book deal,a Autobiography,a slot on the Discovery Channel and maybe become a Nobel Peace Prize Winner to make Columbia proud.

Hell that would sure beat what he is doing now as a chemist at M.U. and he could take his PedNut campaign of Clean Air,Green Friendly Transportation,Self Efficiency and Exercise for all across the nation and around the world to teach all of us how it should be according to "Mark's World".

I even bet the Mayor would give him the "Key To The Bike Lock Award" too.

Come on Mark you can do it!!

Snark Snark. :)

(Report Comment)
John Schultz June 26, 2009 | 8:19 p.m.

Hmm, seems like Chuck might be jealous Mark's accomplishments? Re-snark!

(Report Comment)
Charles Dudley Jr June 26, 2009 | 9:02 p.m.

John Schultz why should I be jealous of a PedNut who breaths in exhaust fumes from vehicles he follows or is passed on the road by them. Better his lungs than mine. Better those poisonous chemicals in his body than mine.

Re-snarky. :)

(Report Comment)
John Schultz June 26, 2009 | 10:59 p.m.

I would imagine that Mark's exercise far outweighs any minimal pollution he might inhale while biking around town.

(Report Comment)
Charles Dudley Jr June 27, 2009 | 5:00 a.m.

John Schultz as I stated he can get one of the Pork Barrel Grants and come up with some real figures instead of weak conjectures.

Why don't you help him being you are the Chairman of the Libertarian Party of Boone County. You could add another feather in your cap and stand next to him on the stage when he gets his Nobel Peace Prize.

This thread has been officially snarkled.

(Report Comment)
John Schultz June 27, 2009 | 4:31 p.m.

Perhaps you could have Matthew Lesko get you some of that free government money and PROVE Mark's assertions wrong rather than snarking all over the Internet?

(Report Comment)
Charles Dudley Jr June 27, 2009 | 4:37 p.m.

John Schultz why should I have to prove his weak conjectures wrong when common sense proves other wise.

Oh that's right common sense is not a common hereditary trait here in the good ole Midwest and for assurity you cannot learn it out of some odd ball book at some higher institution of learning.

Snarkler for life.

(Report Comment)
John Schultz June 27, 2009 | 10:36 p.m.

And why should anyone believe what you say when you can't or won't prove Mark wrong? Perhaps you can't do as you claim, eh? Don't forget this is the Show-Me State, Chuck.

(Report Comment)
Mark Foecking June 28, 2009 | 4:35 a.m.

Chuck wrote:

"Better those poisonous chemicals in his body than mine."

You walk your dogs several times a day, right? You're outside, walking along Hitt or Paquin or University, with traffic passing you. You ride city buses, sitting in traffic with all of the other cars around you.

You get as much pollution as I do, which isn't very much. Modern cars, because of their catalytic converters, make very little of the poisonous pollution that 1950's cars did.

Why do health groups like the American Heart Association recommend people get out and exercise? It's because it's been shown to be good for you, regardless of where you do it. The benefits of the exercise greatly outweigh the risks.

DK

(Report Comment)
Charles Dudley Jr June 28, 2009 | 5:05 a.m.

>>> John Schultz June 27, 2009 | 10:36 p.m.
And why should anyone believe what you say when you can't or won't prove Mark wrong? Perhaps you can't do as you claim, eh? Don't forget this is the Show-Me State, Chuck. <<<

Is that just like why anybody would want to become a Libertarian after reading your commentary here online? After all if you are the prime representative as the Chairman of the Libertarian Party of Boone County one would think you would be trying to draw in people not show your snarkieness all of the time in your postings.

Mark Foecking prove it by factual documented numbers as I requested or go sit down. Common Sense tells us all you are full of bullox. If you are riding directly next to a car or behind it as it passes by you are directly inhaling those poisonous fumes.

(Report Comment)
Mark Foecking June 28, 2009 | 5:31 a.m.

Most catalytically converted auto exhaust is carbon dioxide and water vapor, same as what a person breathes out. There are a few oxides of nitrogen thrown in there (that's the smell), but these aren't a big part of the mix.

When's the last time you heard of an air quality alert in Columbia? I don't remember one. Our air quality is pretty good.

There are more poisonous gases (e. g. H2S) in the bathroom of a good Mexican restaurant than along the side of most of our roads. It's certainly not a reason to not go outside.

DK

(Report Comment)
Charles Dudley Jr June 28, 2009 | 10:33 a.m.

Mark is that another reason you and others advocate not only here but on the Tribune for less automobiles on the roads to lessen air pollution from the too many automobiles on the roadways?

Mark is that why alot of others just like you advocate the same to decrease Global Warming if as you claim above these pollutants are minimal?

Mark either all of these automobiles make pollution or they don't. You cannot have it both ways.

(Report Comment)
Mark Foecking June 28, 2009 | 2:19 p.m.

It depends on what you call pollution, Chuck. CO2 is a major component of auto exhaust. I think CO2 is a driver in climate change, therefore I would like to see less of it made.

But CO2 is not a poisonous gas, at least in the concentrations we typically encounter it. Neither is water vapor. These are the two major components of auto exhaust, and the reason I'm not worried about breathing while riding in traffic.

Happy Sunday, Chuck. Maybe I'll see you at the Shack.

DK

(Report Comment)
Charles Dudley Jr June 28, 2009 | 3:26 p.m.

Mark if you actually believe that every vehicle that passes you or near you has a good working Catalytic Converter then you really have a few spokes loose my friend or is it a few teeth missing on the old sprockets and your chain keeps jumping out of gear?

What about those Motorcycles,trucks,dump trucks,long haul diesels,deliver vans,City Buses and others on the road Mark that go by you?

Tighten those spokes up Mark I think your mind is a little mushy from all of those fumes you have inhaled over the years.

(Report Comment)
John Schultz June 28, 2009 | 6:57 p.m.

Chuck, remind me to tell you what I think of your online crap at the Beat Board lunch on Tuesday, OK? I don't want to post it here and have it deleted.

(Report Comment)
Charles Dudley Jr June 28, 2009 | 7:09 p.m.

No problem John ya you can say it loud and proud in the middle of the restaurant we will be at.

Would you like me to invite a few of the journalism people from here at the Missourian who happen to follow my commentary if you like.

Then all of Boone County will know how the Chairman of the Libertarian Party of Boone County really is in public and towards citizens he wants to his party to represent.

(Report Comment)
John Schultz June 28, 2009 | 10:40 p.m.

Chuckles, invite anyone you want, but don't think you that you are the only person the local media might listen to. As we've discussed before, we both get "attaboys" from various people in community, so don't think it's anything special or that you (or I) are better than anyone else here.

I just find it pretty darn amazing that someone who claims to have mental health issues and argue for those suffering from same would insult someone like Mark in such a manner. If you wanna roll that way, you're free to do so, but don't be surprised when you get called on it or lose sympathies.

(Report Comment)
rosie hazzard June 29, 2009 | 1:43 a.m.

I bet he had a brain bleed from the hit on the head. I know too many people and stories about the same situation. Hit on head by something and within a month or just days, they die. Get checked out at the hospital if you hit your head.......... Mandatory people..... http://billymayes.blogspot.com/

(Report Comment)
Charles Dudley Jr June 29, 2009 | 5:03 a.m.

John Schultz you poor soul always having to come to Mark's rescue. I know Mark is a big boy and can stick up for himself and I am sure does not need you as his protector nor do I need anybody as my protector either.

Last I looked Mark and I are always posting and debating as we always have from day one looking at the angles from our various points of view which if you did not realize gets others thinking more than they usually might normally.

John I look forward to your tirades at the lunch I really do as I have heard it all and anymore it all gives me a good laugh.

Shall we have the medics on stand by in case your blood pressure gets the best of you?

Bring it on John and give it your best shot. Too many to count have tried their shot at the titled and failed miserably. You will be no different I assure you.

(Report Comment)
John Schultz June 29, 2009 | 9:16 a.m.

Chuck, I'm not sticking up for Mark - I am calling you out for being a jerk online. For instance, it's amazing anyone helped out with the CARE@Paquin group after the way you act out online. Maybe you don't have that old saying about vinegar and honey in California?

I'm off to use a vacation day to do some charity work, so you'll have to wait until later tonight for my latest morsel of wisdom.

(Report Comment)
Charles Dudley Jr June 29, 2009 | 9:58 a.m.

John Schultz it is totally amazing anybody would want to join the local Libertarian Party after seeing it's prize Chairman of Boone County acting out online.

(Report Comment)
Charles Dudley Jr June 29, 2009 | 10:08 a.m.

An added note John Schultz:

For one I am not on the Care@Pqquin Committee. I am a supporter of the over all total program just as any common citizen can be.

You on the other hand are "The Chairman of the Libertarian Party of Boone County" which is not some common position as you sluff it off to be. You represent a voice or set of principles if you will and as such being the Chairman you represent your group you over see as a Chairman.

That is the huge difference John Schultz is that I as the common citizen hold no offices nor want or need to in being able to have my voice heard where you on the other hand need that office to make yourself look big in others eyes around you or is it just that nobody else wanted the Chair and you became the default lackey?

Enjoy your vacation John and see you at lunch tomorrow but do not expect me to respond to your tirades in the establishment nor even to acknowledge your mundane questioning. I will be enjoying my lunch instead and every body else's conversation.

(Report Comment)
John Schultz June 29, 2009 | 6:14 p.m.

Chuck, if you don't want your voice heard, why do you post here, on your blogs, the Tribune blog and forum, the Beat Board forum, and who knows where else? You're no different than me or the other regular local commenters in that regard.

If you think I'm not representing the LP message, I provided you and Ray some email addresses to gripe to about me and my comments. Considering both of you posted the contents of a "I hate Libertarians" blog post by a grumpy postal worker who didn't understand libertarianism, pardon me for not caring much about your assessments of my policy positions.

(Report Comment)
Charles Dudley Jr June 29, 2009 | 7:18 p.m.

John Schultz you represent your own agenda so don't try to B.S. the community online.

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro June 29, 2009 | 7:27 p.m.

@JS:
("I hate Libertarians" blog post by a grumpy postal worker who didn't understand libertarianism")
That grumpy postal worker thought libertarianism was on equal footing with antidisestablishmentarianism.
(Silly postal worker.)

(Report Comment)
John Schultz June 29, 2009 | 8:55 p.m.

Chuck, does that mean you aren't representing your own agenda? Can you point to anyone here that doesn't represent their agenda? What in the world are you blathering about now?

(Report Comment)

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