LETTER: MU band showed disrespect

Friday, January 1, 2010 | 3:12 p.m. CST; updated 10:59 a.m. CST, Friday, January 8, 2010

We attended the Texas Bowl, where players, fans and coaches were good sportsmen.

At the end of the game, the Missouri players left the field and most of the Missouri fans had left. The Missouri marching band played the Missouri alma mater and the fight song. Navy players, fans and midshipmen waited patiently at the other end of the field for the Missouri band to finish.

When Missouri finished, the Navy Drum and Bugle Corps (small in number compared to the Missouri band) started playing the historical Navy Blue and Gold. At this point, the Missouri band blasted the Missouri fight a second time and completely drowned out Navy's turn to sing their alma mater.

This was completely uncalled for and disgraceful on the part of the Missouri band. The Navy players and midshipmen will be our future leaders in protecting our country starting next May. The entire incident was embarrassing for the the Missouri fans and disappointing for the Navy fans and Navy midshipmen. Someone needs to talk to the Missouri band director.

Margaret Fries lives in The Woodlands, Texas. Her husband is an MU alumnus.

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Amanda Mahoney January 1, 2010 | 3:54 p.m.

As a member of Marching Mizzou, I am hurt that fans believe that we would ever be disrespectful to the opposing team. We shared a field with the Navy band at halftime and got to spend time with this old and great organization.

At the end of every game, Marching Mizzou sings "Old Missouri" and then reaches down for their instruments and plays "Every True Son" and "Fight Tiger". There is no pause between singing and playing. That is our tradition. We played quickly and exited the stadium so that Navy could celebrate their victory. Sometimes it cannot be helped when two bands play at the same time, but never is it intentional or spiteful.

(Report Comment)
Matt Fetterly January 1, 2010 | 3:55 p.m.

This is classic misunderstanding. Marching Mizzou engages in the same post-game ritual, win or lose. It includes performing the fight songs, then the singing of the Alma Mater, then the fight songs one last time. At the conclusion of the Texas Bowl, as usual, this is what was done. Navy's Band, I'm sure in good faith, interrupted by playing the blue and Gold during the singing of Mizzou's Alma Mater.

At the end of both band's performance the Navy fans began booing and pointing at the Mizzou Band. That was the only disgraceful action on anyones behalf that I observed the whole day.

I think that we can all be thankful that it will be the Navel academy graduates making the life and death decisions for our country not Ms. Fries, who seems to be intent on making a public accusation about an issue which she is clearly under-informed.

(Report Comment)
Joe Schreimann January 1, 2010 | 4:08 p.m.

Its obvious the author has no idea what she is talking about. Our post-game ritual has been the exact same for years and is not meant to harm or spite anyone. I'm proud to be apart of Marching Mizzou and have no shame. The Navy should not have started up their Alma Mater during our fight song.

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RICHARD MAWDSLEY January 1, 2010 | 4:16 p.m.

Interesting remark by Mr. Fetterly. As a Missouri alumnus, I disagree with his assertion. The alma mater was played, followed by a significant time of silence from Marching Mizzou, until Navy commenced its alma mater. Then Marching Mizzou played the fight song again. Of course, all Mizzou fans are familiar with the fond music following a game, win or lose, but the timing at the Texas Bowl was indeed classless, and the significant increase in the volume of the fight song was an apparent attempt to drown out the Navy band and its players, midshipmen and alumni. By that time, most Mizzou fans had left the stadium and all the players and coaches had left.

While watching Marching Mizzou, I suspect the band members did not make the decision to continue playing, but followed the lead of the conductor.

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RICHARD MAWDSLEY January 1, 2010 | 4:29 p.m.

To clarify my comment, I note that the alma mater and fight song were played together as is customary. Marching Mizzou stopped playing, as if completed. Only when the Navy band commenced playing, did Marching Mizzou replay the fight song in a manner which drowned out the Navy alma mater.

(Report Comment)
Matt Fetterly January 1, 2010 | 4:37 p.m.

The order of Marching Mizzou's post-game ritual is:

1) Both Fight Songs
2) SINGING the Alma Mater
3) Both Fight Songs.

The long pause you heard was the singing of the Alma Mater.

(Report Comment)
Liz F January 1, 2010 | 5:22 p.m.

As someone who has been attending MU football games for six years, four of those years spent in Marching Mizzou, I have seen it happen time and time again that the bands play over each other. During the game, there is NO communication at all between the bands, and no one generally takes offense when both bands play at once. Marching Mizzou is not the only band with post-game traditions, and we've had no problems in the past going about our business while the other band goes about theirs. Of course, I have no idea how many games the author of this post has attended, but in the past six years, I could not count the number of times this has occurred. It is not rude. It's what the bands have to do.

As for the accusation of an increase in volume, I think few people would agree with that statement. Marching Mizzou plays the fight song the same way pretty much every time. The players in the band showed nothing but respect for the Navy band during the game. We shared the field with them. We applauded them for their pre-game show. Several of us spent time with them in Houston in the days before the game. While we do care about and enjoy MU football, the members of Marching Mizzou generally do not use the loss of a game as grounds for a grand, organized insult towards another band. It is more likely that we simply sounded louder as fans cleared out and the accoustic nature of the stadium changed.

On a final note, anyone who believes that the director of Marching Mizzou has ever been anything less than professional with his own ensemble or those of other schools has obviously never met the man. He has the utmost respect for anyone who performs as we do and would never intentionally direct the band to disrespect another team or band. This was absolutely a typical and unavoidable misunderstanding.

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro January 1, 2010 | 6:55 p.m.

Note to:
Margaret Fries, The Woodlands, Texas, wife of an MU alumnus in response to, "Someone needs to talk to the Missouri band director."
I suggest that that someone be you. Give him a call, lady. I'm sure he'll clue you in.

(Report Comment)
taylor starks January 1, 2010 | 6:58 p.m.

Ms. Fries and Mr. Mawdsley are both clearly very misunderstood and their rude comments towards Marching Mizzou are the only thing "classless" about this situation. Marching Mizzou plays the EXACT same thing following each game win or lose. The "pause" that the Navy fans heard was just us singing OUR alma mater. This should have been very clear to the Navy band and fans considering it was shown on both video boards in the stadium for a solid 20 seconds. If their alma mater was so "important" then they should have waited for us to finish our ritual already in progress to start theirs.

The fact that the entire Navy section would "boo" another organization like they did was a disgrace to themselves and our country. We showed nothing but utmost respect for their football team and band and the University of Missouri fans would have never done the same thing at the tides been turned. Just because they're the Navy doesn't give their Alma Mater and tradition superiority to ours. Marching Mizzou is not going to ruin OUR tradition to stop everything they're doing to make way for Navy's tradition. I will also add the the Navy fans/football team/band were anything BUT quite during OUR alma mater.

The fact that Marching Mizzou "drowned out" the Navy band was not because we were trying to be disrespectful. It's not our fault the Navy band brought only a small pep band of 50 and Marching Mizzou brought their entire band of over 250. Perhaps the Navy should make arrangements to bring their whole band next time just as we did.

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Amanda Mahoney January 1, 2010 | 7:35 p.m.

Moreover, people outside of the music community do not realize that each member of any band feels a deep kinship with every other musician. The teams may brutally compete, but the bands are always on the same side of making music, getting the crowd excited and representing their various schools. I've had the great opportunity to make friends in the Navy band and have spoken to them about this issue. None of them have taken offense because they know exactly what was happening.

We endure long travel, very little compensation and time spent away from our families to do our job. We are there long before any one else takes their seat and after the teams leave the field. We high-five your dangling kids' hands, we smile for your pictures and we put up with drunk fans every, single game. We do this with grace, class and diligence, no matter what uniform we are wearing.

(Report Comment)
Dave Rose January 1, 2010 | 7:59 p.m.

I am really getting a firmer appreciation for the values of whatever 100 MU fans were left at the game when the MU band played for 10 minutes without any football team members insight and maybe a 100 fans. AND thanks to the MU commenters in the Houston Chronicle today we can all let the band director, the head of music, the director of arts, and the President know how crass that was since they provided all of the aformentioned personal email addresses.

Get a mirror folks !

(Report Comment)
Brian Pezzullo January 1, 2010 | 8:04 p.m.
This comment has been removed.
Texas Wreck January 1, 2010 | 9:07 p.m.

To Mizzou Band: who were you playing for? Your team had left the field, there were no Mizzou fans left in the stadium at the end of the game?
Those boos you heard were not just Navy fans. There were large veterans groups and active duty military who were give free tickets to attend. As a veteran I was very insulted by the Mizzou band playing the fight song while the Navy Alma Mater was playing. But I have received a copy of the apology sent by Mizzou band director to Navy band director and I take him at his word that he regrets the incident happened. Navy received an apology letter from Rutgers for their rude behavior towards Navy team but this matter was not as bad clearly. This also is not a matter of Navy not bringing a big enough band as one idiot implies. All the attendees from Navy used their own leave time and money to travel and attend the game. You spoiled M U band brats ask your grandfathers what that means.

(Report Comment)
Matt Fetterly January 1, 2010 | 9:17 p.m.

Here is what someone posted at the Houston Chronicle:

Attached is a communication sent by my colleague, Dr. Michael Knight, Director of Marching Mizzou, to Jeff Wier, Director of the Naval Academy Band, following the Texas Bowl postgame miscommunication. I regret that misunderstanding, as do my MU Band colleagues, as we always endeavor to represent the University of Missouri with exemplary sportsmanship.
Best wishes.
Tom O'Neal
Below is a copy of the note I have sent to Jeff Weir, Director of the Naval Academy Band. We in no way intended to disrepect the Naval Academy, their fine band, or their fans and alumni. I was merely trying to follow the post-game procedures we had agreed to prior to the game. I apologize that these actions have reflected negatively on our band and university.
Michael Knight
Hello Jeff,
I wanted to write to you to let you know how much I enjoyed meeting you and working with you and your band at the Texas Bowl. It was indeed an honor to share the field in performance with you and your fine ensemble. I also want to congratulate you on a fine victory!
I also want to express my sincere apologies for our performances overlapping during the post-game proceedings. I know we had agreed that the losing team's band would perform their Alma Mater and fight songs first and then allow the winning team to celebrate with their trophy ceremony. I regret that I did not communicate that our portion would involve singing and playing, as is our tradition after each game. It was only after we left the stadium that I found out that we were playing as you were performing as well.
Both myself and our students deeply repect the traditions of the Naval Academy and I sincerely apologize if this incident distracted from what should have been a great moment for your school and fans.
I hope you have safe travels home and I look forward to working with you again soon.
Michael Knight
Director, Marching Mizzou

(Report Comment)
Robin Anderson January 1, 2010 | 9:30 p.m.

Texas Wreck: As musicians, our performance is not dependent upon the number of people left that are listening. It doesn't matter if there's one person or a thousand, we are trained to play our best every time we play, regardless of audience count. If two people showed up to a football game, would that game be canceled? The MU school of music accepts nothing less than the utmost in professionalism from its students and faculty.

Your assumption that all MU fans had left the field is inaccurate: many people in marching band are MU fans, and your notion that the marching band shouldn't have played because all MU fans had "left the field" proves how little yourself and others appreciate what we do and why we do it. You are obviously holding a grudge, so I suggest you get the facts straight and gain a little insight and perspective before you over-generalize every student as a "spoiled brat."

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Texas Wreck January 1, 2010 | 10:05 p.m.

Robin I was so taken by your band performance that I took a picture of the Mizzou side of the field: it was empty. Your band was all that was left and you guys were down in the North endzone. I have my facts straight and know rude behavior and disrespect when I see and hear it. Your band director apologized for behavior you are trying to defend.
Grow up and realize MU band made a mistake.

(Report Comment)
taylor starks January 1, 2010 | 10:12 p.m.

Texas Wreck: You call yourself a veteran and then call me an "idiot" and the entire University of Missouri band "spoiled MU band brats". Embarrassing.

(Report Comment)
Texas Wreck January 1, 2010 | 10:22 p.m.

I don't call myself a veteran: I am a veteran. I know lousy behavior when I see it. I was at the Ohio State Navy game and watched 104,000 real fans and the OSU Band all stand and salute the Navy team as they sang their alma mater after the game. You Missouri band members are still defending your behavior. After watching college football games for the past 54 years in person at over 70 different stadiums, you rank in the top 5 for boorish behavior and lack of responsibility. Your Band Director Apologized!!

(Report Comment)
Robin Anderson January 1, 2010 | 10:39 p.m.

Judging from the letter content, the director apologized for the miscommunication and not for the actual tradition of post-game singing and playing. You still don't seem to understand that this was not done on purpose, and you seemed to sidestep addressing the fact that it doesn't matter how many people are "in the endzone," musicians sing and play for much higher reasons. Also, It's rude to make sweeping assumptions.

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Rachel Barry January 1, 2010 | 10:40 p.m.

I told myself that I wouldn't comment and that I would listen to Dr. Knight's e-mail and leave it to him to handle this. I don't feel as though this is a legitimate site to bring embarrassment onto our band, so I think I will comment. I have been a member of M2 for two years and I have loved every second of it. This past bowl trip was a memorable one. We rode a constant 17 hours without stopping to be at this bowl game. If we were spoiled, we would've flown, just saying..and being spoiled is something I wouldn't mind, but it just isn't happening. This playing over each other happened twice during the day of the bowl. The Navy band marching in on us playing the fight songs before the game and began their sons before we were finished. I don't feel like it is either band's fault.

Neither band can stop playing after starting, it just cant happen. Tradition, pride, and showmanship keep us from just stopping in the midst of playing no matter the circumstances. The Navy band weren't clear on our agreed traditions, and that is unfortunate but it bears no reason to crucify Marching Mizzou for doing our same post-game tradition. As for blaring the traditional songs, this is absurd. In comparison to a smaller band and an emptier arena, we're going to sound very loud. We play our songs the exact same way every time, no matter what. We're held at a standard that doesn't allow our quality of sound to slip because of a loss, weather, or any issue. We are musicians, first and foremost.

We play for every Mizzou fan in existence. We are the sound of Mizzou. I refuse to believe there were no fans in those stands because if the band was there, there were 300 die hard Mizzou fans still standing. We play for ourselves, our school, and our history. MIZ!

(Report Comment)
David Brown January 1, 2010 | 10:42 p.m.

Texas Wreck,the Mizzou Band Director took the high road and apologized when the error was actually made by the Navy band. The Navy band began playing their Alma Mater before Marching Mizzou had completed their post-game ritual. If anything, it was Marching Mizzou's tradition that was not respected. I would suggest you read the apology letter carefully as you will realize the losing team was supposed to complete their post-game ritual first. Unfortunately, Marching Mizzou was not allowed to complete their post-game, and now we have a bunch of whiners complaining about Mizzou's band when they weren't even at fault. I for one hope the MU Administratiion supports Mr. Knight for doing his job the way he's always done it!!! I hope all MU fans support Mr. Knight and Marching Mizzou!!!! We can't let these whiners run our University and disrespect OUR traditions! Go Mizzou!

(Report Comment)
Texas Wreck January 1, 2010 | 10:49 p.m.

I read the apology letter carefully and I agree with you that it was weak.
Do you think the boos directed at the Mizzou band were just 15,000 whiners ? There were absolutely no Mizzou fans except the band left in the stadium. I suggest that other teams should show the same regard for Mizzou traditions that you suggest Mizzou shows: none??

(Report Comment)
Texas Wreck January 1, 2010 | 10:52 p.m.

Rachel that was an excellent post. Good for you!

(Report Comment)
David Brown January 1, 2010 | 11:11 p.m.

Texas Wreck, I think the apology letter was as strong as it needed to be (I never said it was weak). If all 15000 of those fans who booed our band (which was rather rude, by the way) show up here on the Columbia Missourian message board complaining, then yes I would call them whiners. For Mizzou fans, I do suggest that you all support Mr. Knight because some yahoo on the Houston Chronicle message board posted the e-mail addresses for MU Administration officials. So, we Mizzou fans better be ready to respond and support Mr. Knight.

(Report Comment)
Amanda Mahoney January 1, 2010 | 11:11 p.m.

Texas Wreck: This was my last game ever in a marching uniform. I'm graduating soon and leaving behind something I've been doing for all of my adult life so far. I don't need a crowd of people to hear me play and sing. I had my arms around my fellow musicians, sang "Old Missouri" for the last time. If you ever make the trip up to Columbia, come out to the rehearsal we have before games. You'll see that we conclude it in the exact same manner as we finish our game-time performance. What you won't see is a stadium full of people on our parking lot practice field. We play and sing for us just as much as we do for fans.

(Report Comment)
Gregg Gibson January 1, 2010 | 11:13 p.m.

I signed up in order to comment on what I saw Coach Pinkel do after the game (before the network cut from broadcast). I didn't know anything about the band controversy until I read it here. From what I have read, it sounds like an honest mistake, and I appreciate the MU band director's apology letter.

My son attended the Naval Academy and graduated in 2004, although he didn't play football there. While he was there, though, I had the opportunity to attend several Navy football games, including two Army-Navy games.

One of the best and most honored traditions in college football is standing and listening to the USNA alma mater sung by Midshipmen, the football players and alumni. Even the opposing team stands quietly in appreciation of this tradition. But, at the end of last night's game, where was the Missouri teamm and coaches...? Like I said, last thing I saw on TV before the network cut back to the studio was Coach Pinkel sprinting to the locker room. Apparantly your coach either wasn't told of the tradition or didn't care after his team got whipped.

From what it sounds like, the Missouri team had headed to the locker room before THEIR fight song was played and alma mater was sung. Sounds like a WONDERFUL tradition you guys got going on there. Navy players stand in unison with their fellow Midshipmen. I only wish Missouri coaches and players had shown more respect.

May ALL of our young men and women serving in the armed forces be in our prayers... whether they come from the Naval Academy, The University of Missouri, or even... the University of Kansas. Or even if they joined the service straight out of high school.

But, please... next time, clue your coach in on other teams' traditions, not just your band director.

(Report Comment)
Texas Wreck January 1, 2010 | 11:24 p.m.

Amanda I have attended a game in Columbia and had a wonderful experience except for that cold weather!!
Sounds like you had a great college experience in the band.
Good luck to you.

(Report Comment)
Texas Wreck January 1, 2010 | 11:29 p.m.

Greg I agree with you. Mr Knight has apologized. He has probably gotten a lot of unwanted attention and emails. Ohio State handled the Navy traditions in such a wonderful manner in September because Coach Tressel was very public before the game about how he thought the traditions were very important for both schools. Bless your son.

(Report Comment)
Dave Webster January 1, 2010 | 11:46 p.m.

"Or even if they joined the service straight out of high school."

As a veteran that was enlisted in the Navy that's real classy.

(Report Comment)
David Brown January 1, 2010 | 11:53 p.m.

I can't answer for Coach Pinkel, but I believe one should consider that the bowl game logistics would be different from a regular season game. I'm sure Coach Pinkel as does the Mizzou Administration, Mizzou fans, the Mizzou band, and the Mizzou football players all have the utmost respect for the Naval Academy, and would have honored them appropriately if hosting Navy in a home game. By the way, didn't Coach Pinkel's father serve in the Navy???

(Report Comment)
Kellyn Elysia Gooding January 2, 2010 | 12:02 a.m.

I am a freshman in Marching Mizzou, and was very grateful to be a part of the conclusion of this season. I'm sorry this issue has caused such controversy after such a beautiful experience. I, among many, am not a part of the football program to be against anything but rather for support. Not just for Mizzou, as much love as I have for our team and university, but for the sport as a whole. It is about competition but more importantly about learning to play (whether it be football or the trombone) and perform with respect and control. We are not perfect but have always had the highest standards of conduct as a band, thanks to our director. Dr. Knight has been such a compassionate person and an inspiring leader to us, that if you only knew him, you would understand how this was all blown out of proportion and how no harm was meant from anyone. He puts an endless amount of hours in, deals with piles of problems, and leads us towards victory every game whether we win or lose. He has always taught us that what we do is beautiful not because we want to crush every team, but because we are around 300 people who come together and spend endless hours practicing and making music together, something that is rare in the fast-paced and technological world. We learn to respect each other and what we do as well as our opponents and what they do. After the bowl game, his face did not hold anger or any negative response toward the navy, but rather compassion and joy for what we (when I say we, I mean our band, but also our fans and everyone else at the bowl game, including the Navy) had accomplished that day. This is the first complaint I have seen considering we have always had this wonderful tradition and other bands have always had theirs without complaints, even when playing did overlap. It wasn't about being heard, it was about supporting what Mizzou stands for even at our greatest wins and losses.

Marching Mizzou is my family, and you will just have to meet us all to understand how passionate and grateful we were. We support each other, and respect our fellow players. And we always will. I don't know how many of us have to reiterate that for it to be understood, but we all know it to be true.

(Report Comment)
Steven Shelley January 2, 2010 | 12:11 a.m.

Texas Wreck,

I decided to sign up just to prove you wrong to the others here. You say there were no Mizzou fans left in the stadium when the MU band played. I beg to differ. I along with two other friends were still in the stands watching the jumbotron for highlights, stats, and letting the crowd clear out. There were numerous fans behind me still and there were numerous fans still present on our sideline (I would guess 50-80 still lingering around). I was actually right next to the MU band and saw everything happen. It was truly a misunderstanding. I didn't even realize what had happened until a very rude Navy fan came over above us and yelled down at the band. The band then filed down the stairs and I heard many of them comment that they didn't know what was going on and that bands do play over each other. I find it very rude on your part to jump to conclusions so quickly. You and the majority of the Navy fans were rude in booing and shouting down at college kids who were just doing their job. Not to mention what was agreed upon by both bands per the email. It sucks when you are wrong, huh?

I'm a Mizzou ticket holder and sit very close to the band. I can vouch for all these band members comments. I for one am a major jock and have unfortunately even been judgemental of band kids and the variety they play during games. However, I appreciate their efforts and how they help pump up the atmosphere. Therefore, I am sticking up for my fellow Tigers and letting you know that you are wrong, rude, and may need to apologize on behalf of your and all the Navy fans behavior over this fiasco. It would be the honorable thing to do.

Band members on here: can you do me one favor and ask the director to add some variety from yr to yr on what you play at home games? Not on the field, but in the stands during the game. I love the songs, but you can only listen to mortal combat, short 4, and mars (hope I got those right) so many times a game. :)

(Report Comment)
Liz F January 2, 2010 | 12:35 a.m.

Just to be sure that every last point you've made has been solidly refuted, Wreck, before you go shooting your mouth off about knowing a group's traditions, maybe you should... actually know them. Marching Mizzou intentionally waits to perform their post-game ritual until the team is exiting the field. If the fans rush the field or if the team goes to cheer with the student section, we stand and wait.

Also, there may have been 15000 people booing in the stands, but you seem to be the only one looking to start a flame war. Doesn't that tell you something? Is posting trash (as opposed to reasoned and logical discussion) on a newspaper website two states away really the best thing you could have done with your new year? Just asking.

(Report Comment)
Michael Ray January 2, 2010 | 12:37 a.m.

To whom this may concern,
I myself am in Marching Mizzou and have to say that these accusations that our performance was with intent is a pure outrage. I for one am appalled that ANYONE would accuse students or anyone with trying to be disrespectful with any armed forces or any other collegiate team. I can not speak for anyone but myself on this subject matter but I just have to say that I myself were unaware of Navy's tradition due to the fact that I RARELY watch college football unless I am personally at the game. Had I myself known about Navy's traditions I would have ceased playing to uphold with Navy's traditions because I do honor those men and women who go through all the training, hard work, dedication, and danger all for our country. But to say that our performances overlapping was with intent is just outrageous!!! WE ARE ALL HUMAN AND WE ALL MAKE MISTAKES!!! OUR MISTAKES INCLUDE MISCOMMUNICATION. And just because MOST of our fans had began to leave does not mean that we were not performing to anyone. Our biggest fans ARE in the band and I say this because no matter how bad it is outside we are ALWAYS present at the game and we ALWAYS perform the same ritual after the game!!! And for anyone to say that any of us are spoiled MU band brats is also just rediculous and stupid because you know what, my parents are taking out a loan worth half my tuition and myself taking on loans in great amounts and I am only a freshman. Yes I may be attending a university of great costs but you have to consider that MOST universities in today's world cost right around the same price for attendance. So I am most DEFINITELY NOT a "SPOILED MU BAND BRAT!!"On a side note: I have for a long time been considering joining the military but find that it will most likely be impossible because I have a bleeding disorder. So please don't try to say that I don't respect nor honor people in the military. I wish everyone a great and prosperous new year and GOD BLESS THE USA!!!

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro January 2, 2010 | 12:42 a.m.

I invite any out of towner to come visit the MU residential life Frat and Sorority Houses during HomeComing. There's always some good, tongue-in-cheek "children/family-friendly" simplistic skits about that year's HomeComing rival.
Introduce some fanatical drunken fans and it can get a little nasty.
This is rare at home games.
Seems to me that some hard-core Navy fans have expressed themselves as being "sore winners" on our local "college newspaper." Would we be crying to you guys on a Navy College publication for what some might consider excessive, rude, disrespectful booing at the visiting team, which lost?
Perhaps those "military type" college football teams should just compete with other "military type" college football teams and leave the "non-military" type colleges play amongst themselves.
What childish nonsense for "Navy Veterans in Texas" to thump their chests and elevate themselves above 250 visiting horn blowers and drummers from MU.
Texas and Navy hospitality at its best?
Go JayHawks! Oops.

(Report Comment)
John Giles January 2, 2010 | 1:29 a.m.

Regarding the alleged insult to Navy by the Mizzou band, after reading the explanation of band tradition, it's apparent that the Mizzou band and its director didn't intend to insult anyone.

It's odd, however, that at the end of a losing game, Mizzou has a tradition that calls for playing/singing a total of 5 songs before their opponent can celebrate a victory. To the Mizzou faithful, this is tradition. To the rest of the world, holding up the victor’s post game celebration by playing two fight songs, twice, in addition to the alma mater, is self-absorption. The word "graceless" comes to mind.

Tigers should reconsider the appropriateness of a tradition that is disrespectful regardless of intent. A better tradition might be this: If the Tigers win, once the loser has played their one or two songs, play and sing the 5 U of M songs. For that matter, play every tune in the songbook, twice. No one will mind. But if they lose, Tigers should show some respect for (or even awareness of) the other team by playing the alma mater and maybe a fight song - once - then shutting it down. Then the victor could enjoy their own moment, without having to wait half the night while the Marching Mizzou carries out a confusing and narcissistic post-game tradition.

Missourians suffer an unjust reputation of being ill-mannered. Reinforcing that perception at the end of every losing contest is something that the University of Missouri should strongly reconsider. Here’s the framework: It says something about being responsible for unintended consequences. An example of an unintended consequence is angering the people who have sworn to defend you. Here’s a test Mizzou – break out your Blue Books. The topic is: Institutional Value Statements: Moral Guideposts or Marketing BS? Give examples.*

Conversely, the University could just add a tagline to its website, student handbook, etc. How’s this? “University of Missouri – A Tradition of Being Rude.”

*Hint: Update the post game band tradition and you’ll get an “A.” Don’t, and you’ll get an “F.”

(Report Comment)
Eric Hobbs January 2, 2010 | 1:43 a.m.

Texas Wreck, I suppose you are trying to assert that a band performing their traditions is an insult? If people have left should the band pack it in and abandon the fight song and alma mater?

If you would read the posts from multiple Marching Mizzou members, or my post, having been to 42 games dating to the 2006 season, you would realize that everything done in Houston is done everywhere at every game, regardless of the game's outcome or how many fans are left.

Are you really pathetic enough to think that a band would intentionally go out of their way to do something like that, or that this is the first time in the history of college football bands have played over us?

Get a grip, pal.

(Report Comment)
Jenny Leeper January 2, 2010 | 1:57 a.m.

Is the issue here that the MU band played at the same time as an opposing univerity's band or that the MU band played at the same time as the Naval Academy's band?

Do the traditions of a military school trump the traditions of a non-military school even if, as in this case, the non-military school has been around longer? If so, why?

What makes one tradition more important than another? What makes one alma mater more important than another?

Just for the sake of discussion: If the Naval Academy had brought a 250 piece band and MU had only brought 50 and if MU had accidentally started it's post-game traditions before the Naval Academy had finished it's own post-game traditions and the sounds of the Naval Academy band had, due to sheer numbers, drowned out those of the MU band, would this be as much of an issue?

(Report Comment)
Glenn Kilburn January 2, 2010 | 3:05 a.m.

Texas Wreck,

As a veteran myself as well as a Marching Mizzou Alumni I was VERY offended by the Navy fans in Section 125 obnoxious and disrespectful behavior towards Marching Mizzou. Marching Mizzou did exactly what they always do at the end of the game and it matters not how many fans are left in the stands. It was pretty sad to see such an "entitlement attitude" displayed by Navy fans at the game and again here in this forum. You really need to get over yourselves and realize there are plenty of people from other universities that have served our country in uniform. Besides myself, I know of at least a half dozen of my former bandmates that served in the military and a couple that are "lifers."


(Report Comment)
John Giles January 2, 2010 | 3:13 a.m.

"Do the traditions of a military school trump the traditions of a non-military school even if, as in this case, the non-military school has been around longer? If so, why?

What makes one tradition more important than another? What makes one alma mater more important than another?."

No, and nothing, and nothing.

It has nothing to do with who Navy is. It has everything to do with who Missouri is. What makes Missouri think it's ok to lose agame, then have the victors sit around waiting for them to play not just their alma mater, and not just a fight song, but two fight songs, an alma mater, then the same two fight songs all over again? And your surprised if somebody gets confused and can't figure out when you're finished?

That much bandsturbation can't be healthy, kids. Cut it down to one or two songs - like the big kids do. Then you won't unintentionally offend people who can't fathom the self-absorption involved in playing on forever when you just lost. It may be tradition, but that doesn't make it OK. It's selfish and rude.

(Report Comment)
Sam Terrazas January 2, 2010 | 3:24 a.m.

(I played in Marching Mizzou two years prior to this season)

Standard mix up in the order of songs. Just because songs overlapped doesn't mean we are terrorists or anything.

Get real and let it go. I bleed black and gold and I don't mean to disrespect anyone, but I am glad we upheld tradition even at the cost of jeering.

Bottom line: S**t happens, and it's good to know who can take a mix-up without screaming bloody murder.

(Report Comment)
Brian Pezzullo January 2, 2010 | 3:53 a.m.
This comment has been removed.
John Giles January 2, 2010 | 3:59 a.m.

"Standard mix up in the order of songs. Just because songs overlapped doesn't mean we are terrorists or anything."

No it doesn't mean you're terrorists, or even jaywalkers(most of this brouha is just because it's fun to argue on boards, LOL). And in fact you as a band member doing what you're supposed to do makes you (and your bandmates) good people. Right up to the point where you are exposed to the fact that your tradition is goofy, and is clearly confusing to other people who can't figure out why you're playing when they think it's supposed to be their turn. Who else plays 5 songs before turning over the field? You guys aren't bad for following your tradition - but you'd be even better if you changed it. Gracious, generous and thoughtful. Or you could just skip it.

Either way, good luck in school, with the band, in basketball season, and next year in the Big 12 North.

(Report Comment)
John Giles January 2, 2010 | 4:07 a.m.

"What makes it okay is when BOTH band directors AND the Texas Bowl officials agreed that the losing team would play their alma mater and fights songs FIRST before the winning team."

That happens at every game all year long. It's not the order of who goes first that is confusing, unusual, or selfish - it's the 5 songs. As in "alma mater and fight songs," not as in "fight songs and alma mater and fight songs again." Besides, pick a fight song. Everybody sings more than one, but geez - pick one horse and ride it.

Anyway, like I said, good luck in school and next year in football. I'm out of beer and going to bed. 'Night All!

(Report Comment)
Adam Wallach January 2, 2010 | 4:12 a.m.

I, like many other posters here, am a former member of Marching Mizzou, and can vouche for what has already been stated, the band was performing the same traditional post-game routine that it always does: the fight songs, singing the alma mater, and an encore of the fight songs.

Additionally, I can vouche for the integrity of Dr. Knight and the respect he has for every other college band that M2 shares a stadium with. For example, during M2's visit to Oklahoma State in 2005, after Mizzou's victory, Dr. Knight had the band stay and watch the entirety of the Oklahoma State band's encore halftime performance (and from my recollection we greatly outnumbered the few Oklahoma State fans that stayed to watch it), then had us go down to the field to congratulate them on their performance. Dr. Knight appreciates the traditions, performances, and the love of music that the other college bands have and makes sure that M2 treats these other college bands with respect, regardless of the outcome of the football game.

To Mr. Giles, I find your classifying of M2's post-game ritual as "bandsturbation", "self-absorption", and "selfish and rude" to be highly offensive, but I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you just do not entirely understand the tradition that you are attacking. Admittedly, when I was a freshman, I did not understand why we played after a loss (and we were still losing on a pretty regular basis when I was a freshman). I always thought to myself, "What are we trying to prove? We lost, so why are we acting as if we are celebrating?" However, I came to realize with time that we were playing to congratulate our team, to say thank you to our family and friends, for the sheer joy of being in a school as great as Mizzou, for the love of music, and for ourselves.

Although I have graduated, being at Mizzou and in M2 was one of the best experiences of my life so far. You say "bandsturbation", I say love for my school and a reminder of how great it is to be a Tiger. Although I was unable to attend the Texas Bowl, had I been there, I would have still been in my seat while M2 performed its post game, I would have linked my arms and sang Old Missouri with the band, and would have clapped along to Every True Son and Fight Tiger one last time until next football season.

On a lighter note, I had to watch Navy possess the ball and run it up and down the field for almost 41 minutes (props to Navy for its great execution, but it was difficult to watch as a Tiger fan), so I think they can wait a couple of minutes for Mizzou to perform as agreed before they commence with their songs. I don't blame the Navy band, it was a simple misunderstanding, and this happens all the time with college bands. It's a shame that something so petty has created all of this controversy. People just need to chill.

(Report Comment)
Ellis Smith January 2, 2010 | 6:41 a.m.

Do they have "band gaffes" like that in the Big 10 athletic conference? Possibly.

When is the last time a Big 10 football team lost to the Naval (and it's Naval," not "Navel") Academy 35-13? Not recently.

The Big 10 athletic conference already has two members whose school colors are black and gold. How many more are needed?

(Report Comment)
Joe Smith January 2, 2010 | 8:19 a.m.

I am from Missouri, was at the game, have attended many Missouri games, and can honestly say I was never so embarrassed to say I was from Missouri as I was at the Texas Bowl. The bigger problem here is that Missouri Band members are trying to defend something that is indefensible. The school's administration and football program was made fully aware of a very important tradition that ALL other teams, fans and bands have respected, not only this year, but for as far back as I can remember. You need not look any further back than the way Ohio State demonstrated tremendous respect before, during AND AFTER their game with Navy, as has Notre Dame and other high profile teams. Missouri players not only did not stand behind Navy during the playing of Blue and Gold as all other teams have this year, they ran off the field like a bunch of spoiled babies. Then the Missouri band didn't have enough respect to allow Navy the opportunity to complete a tradition that transcends football itself. I'm more disappointed in the administration not having enough regard for the fact this bowl game should have meant more to Missouri than just another football game, and they missed out on a tremendous opportunity to gain so much more from the experience. These young men who play don't play expecting to go to the NFL. When they're done playing, they're heading to Afghanistan, Iraq, and other places where they will lay their very lives on the line so that we can continue to enjoy our Saturday's in the fall. Bottom line, Missouri showed no class.

(Report Comment)
Joe Smith January 2, 2010 | 8:34 a.m.

Oh, and if you want to see what true respect and class is like, see the following: This was a student and university that understands what is should mean to play one of the service academies.

(Report Comment)
Texas Wreck January 2, 2010 | 8:35 a.m.

Joe Smith has it right. BTW I am an Army Veteran, not Navy so thanks for the Go Army Glenn. I really do love West Point. I go to Army Navy game every year even though Navy always wins.
I attended 13 college football games in person this year, and this is the only one that has had a controversy. As far as were my postings an appropriate way to start the new year, this is America. I am entitled to my opinions just as all of you are currently expressing. So chat away!!

(Report Comment)
Alex Williams January 2, 2010 | 9:14 a.m.

My name is Alex Williams and I also am a proud member of Marching Mizzou. I am completely and utterly appalled as a 4 year member of marching mizzou to have to read all of this non-sense from people who have no business A) Writing this letter in the first place and B) commenting on it when they have no idea what had happened. I am very confused about this "long pause" talked about between the traditional singing of our alma mater and final playing of our fight songs considering the pause only lasts about four seconds. It pains me to see individuals who have no knowledge of what really happened degrading my fellow bandsmen who pour their heart and soul into an organization that is purely voluntary and does not get treated the way we should. In absolutely now way were we out to disrespect the Naval Academy what so ever. Do you people really feel that the young men and women of Marching Mizzou would really be that disdainful to the USNA? My own brother was a Lance Corporal in the Marines for God sakes as well as my Grandfather was during WWII. I for one am ashamed at our own fans and the fans of the USNA for showing us such disrespect for something that clearly was an accident. For my entire four years in Marching Mizzou we have performed the exact same pregame ritual after every game that we attended (which is somewhere around 40+ games) and not ONCE has anything like this been said. In fact, this situation has occurred many times if I remember correctly and never has anyone complained about it. However, all of a sudden it unfortunately happens again but this time we are playing the Naval Academy so now it's time to run Marching Mizzou out on a rail. You people are ridiculous. I can't believe I spent so much of my time in an organization that I loved so much to cheer on a team that I love so much only to be ridiculed and disrespected by my own fans. You people are horrible. I hope you all feel better about yourselves for throwing Marching Mizzou under the bus so you can try to save face for something that was a mistake in the first place. How come no one is calling the Naval Academy's band director into question when he began to conduct "Blue and Gold" obviously halfway through our fight song. It's not like he couldn't hear us. and by the way Joe Smith I was never informed of how the post-game rituals were to be performed. I just did my job and played when my band director told me to and don't you ever call Dr. Knight's respect or class into question. I am so glad that my last game as a performing member of Marching Mizzou will not only be marred a sub-par effort from my team and being booed and insulted as I walked back to my bus by Navy fans but now to be insulted by our own fans. I am so glad I spent so much of my time rehearsing with this band and traveling to support our teams and traditions to be insulted this way.

(Report Comment)
Texas Wreck January 2, 2010 | 9:49 a.m.

Alex, while you have been at Missouri, have you taken any classes on government, the Constitution, or history? Do you really think there is anyone who has "no business writing this letter in the first place". Are you serious?
Why then did you write? Well, because it is your right to do so, and you did. That is America young man.

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro January 2, 2010 | 9:55 a.m.

"Obama Job Stimulus Plan Creates More Jobs in the Education Arena.
College Football Marching Band Referees on Tap."

Reminds me of a Battle of the Bands playoff.
Next time you play Navy, Mizzou, wear Black and Gold helmets.
(It'll muffle Navy fan jeers.)
The salts in the stands can turn off their hearing aids when it's our turn to play.

(This would have been so much more fun if the cheering squads were arguing. Nothing beats a good cat fight.)

Hey Navy? Can we have our newspaper back now?

(Report Comment)
Alex Williams January 2, 2010 | 10:04 a.m.

I absolutely have had classes in constitutional government and history. Having no business writing something and not having the right to write something is different. I never claim that she never had the right to write this letter. However, not having all the facts straight before you try and publish something like this is very wrong. I absolutely agree that everyone has the right to comment on the situation at hand. The fact of the matter is this was all already handled before the author posted this story and by not having all the facts behind her accusations is called defamation. I am not trying to attack the author or accuse her of such fowl play, but merely trying to, as well as my peers, to let MU and USNA faithful realize that we would never be disrespectful in this way and it was all a misunderstanding. I am well aware of what America is...thank you.

(Report Comment)
Texas Wreck January 2, 2010 | 10:23 a.m.

Alex, there should have been a publication of the apology from Dr. Knight- there was not. Someone published it in the Houston Chronicle finally. You are wrong if you don't think people were insulted, by accident or not. It may not be a big deal to you and your band mates, but it was to those from Navy in attendance. I was sitting right above the Brigade and could not hear a single word of the alma mater because of the Mizzou Band. There was a chant from the fans to do it again after you all left, but there was not time. I am sorry if you were verbally abused or thrown under the bus, but facts are facts: the Mizzou Band played while Navy sang; Dr. Knight has apologized privately; Navy and veterans were/are upset; everyone has their right to comment. Now, Mr. Shapiro, I take my leave and give you your paper back. See you all next year.

(Report Comment)
Robin Anderson January 2, 2010 | 10:34 a.m.

Does someone have a link to the Houston Chronicle where this is going on?

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro January 2, 2010 | 10:37 a.m.

Alex: Good post. I know no disrespect was intended by da Band. You guys did what you've been trained to do.
Although good intentions sometimes bring forth undesirable results.

Hey, maybe MU could meet with some other Band Directors and review where/and when "overkill" and timing might be perceived as a bit out of whack?

(Report Comment)
Ellis Smith January 2, 2010 | 10:49 a.m.

Maybe it's time to put the event in proper context.

We're talking about the alleged misconduct of a band belonging to one of the four campuses of University of Missouri System, a campus which according to the System's own published data today contains less than half of the System's students.

It's not as if the entire university disrespected the Naval Academy, if in fact the Naval Academy was disrespected. Either persons loyal to the Naval Academy will get over the situation or they won't. There's little MU can do about that, and certainly nothing that UMKC, UMSL and Missouri S&T can do about it. Wasn't us!

Let's move on - to the next embarrassment. Hopefully that won't be for a while.

(Report Comment)
Greg Lowe January 2, 2010 | 11:08 a.m.

I just got back from the game and wanted to throw in my two cents. My daughter is in the Drum and Bugle at Navy (which, by the way, is the oldest D & B in the country). She told me that she and her band mates spent a lot of time with the Mizzou band during the week and they were all great kids. She said no way they were playing over us to be disrespectful! As a matter of fact, it was Navy playing over them. She said the D&B were waiting for Missouri to finish, when either ESPN or Texas Bowl officials told them to start playing or forget about doing it all together because they needed to get to the presentation of the Bowl Trophy. Blue and Gold is a tradition that can’t be skipped, so away they went. I don’t believe disrespect was intended on either side and we all need to stop throwing insults and if you feel the need to complain, do it to ESPN or the Texas Bowl folks!

(Report Comment)
John tuff January 2, 2010 | 11:40 a.m.

How about the Navy fans get their panties out of a bunch?

(Report Comment)
Adam Wallach January 2, 2010 | 11:48 a.m.

Great post Mr. Lowe! I hope it helps everyone to see that there was never any type of animosity between the two bands or its members, and that this type of overlapping happens all the time. Regardless of what some people may believe, I know from first-hand experience the bands of opposing schools have nothing but respect for each other and the competition on the field does not extend to the bands.

Mr. Smith, I'm sure Mizzou was made aware of Navy's "very important tradition," and I'm also sure that Navy was made aware of Mizzou's as well. To say that Marching Mizzou showed "no class" is rediculous. Both programs have equally important post-game rituals, one had to go first so Mizzou did, Navy's band accidentally started or was told to start for time purposes while Mizzou's band was still playing. End of story. Where's the controversy? When two bands attend a game, this kind of overlap happens all of the time because there is no communication between them once a game begins.

Chill out everyone, there's no band conspiracy to short change the Naval Academy's song at the end of a football game. Do you realize how rediculous that even sounds? Last time I checked we're all on the same side, the good ol' USA. This bickering over a simple miscommunication is complete nonsense. I'm sure any Navy band member would agree.

(Report Comment)
Gregg Gibson January 2, 2010 | 11:55 a.m.

To Greg Lowe ~ Hope your daughter does well at Annapolis, and I wish her the best in the future. Actaully, my son was a drummer in the D&B Corps his plebe year.

To Joe Smith ~ I totally agree with your post. Like I said in my original post, I accept that there were misunderstandings by both bands in how they played on top of one another. I had not heard the angle that it may have been the network and/or bowl officials who prompted Navy to begin playing so they could meet their TV time deadlines.

With all that said, however, as I stated in my original post and as Joe Smith pointed out, I am more dismayed at Coach Pinkel and his players for running off the field immediately after the game, and not respecting the tradition of staying for Navy's Blue and Gold. What were they in such a hurry to get off the field for?

(Report Comment)
Gregg Gibson January 2, 2010 | 12:13 p.m.

For those that are curious, here are the lyrics to Blue and Gold:

Now colleges from sea to sea
May sing of colors true,
But who has better right than we
To hoist a symbol hue?
For sailors brave in battle fair
Since fighting days of old,
Have proved a sailor's right to wear
The Navy Blue and Gold.

So hoist our colors, hoist them high,
And vow allegiance true,
So long as sunset gilds the sky
Above the ocean blue,
Unlowered shall those colors be
Whatever fate they meet,
So glorious in victory,
Triumphant in defeat.

Four years together by the Bay
Where Severn joins the tide,
Then by the Service called away,
We've scattered far and wide;
But still when two or three shall meet,
And old tales be retold,
From low to highest in the Fleet
Will pledge the Blue and Gold.

And, if I cut & paste it correctly, here's a video from a recent Army-Navy game:

(Report Comment)
Adam Wallach January 2, 2010 | 12:25 p.m.


Would you like me to post the lyrics to Old Missouri, Every True Son, and Fight Tiger?

(Report Comment)
Gregg Gibson January 2, 2010 | 12:30 p.m.

In retrospect, perhaps I have been too harsh on Coach Pinkel for not sticking around after the game. Obviously, he was busy all week preparing his team to play 60 minutes of football, not for the 10 minutes after the game. I would guess that responsibility falls to your Sports Information Director, who should have informed the coach of what every other opposing team does at the conclusion of the game.

This would all be a mute point, of course, had Missouri won the game, for they would have HAD to stick around on the field for the trophy presentation....

(Report Comment)
Gregg Gibson January 2, 2010 | 12:34 p.m.

I did read the lyrics to MU's songs, Adam, thanks... I'm not suggesting any relevance other than 95% of the readers here don't know USNA's alma mater.

(Report Comment)
Dave Webster January 2, 2010 | 12:40 p.m.

From what I understand the losing team is suppose to get off the field as soon as possible so the trophy presentation can begin.

(Report Comment)
Adam Wallach January 2, 2010 | 1:11 p.m.

Mr. Gibson, I commend you for acknowledging that Coach Pinkel probably had a few other things to worry about in preparation for this game than the 10 minutes of post game to follow it (although, he may have had more time during the game seeing as how he wasn't spending his time making any adjustments lol). Missouri may or may not have even been informed of the specifics of Navy's post-game.

However, I do take issue with the idea that Mizzou MUST remain on the field for the playing of Navy's post-game. If they decide to do so, great, but if not, they should not be chastised for it. I was not at the game, so I cannot give a first-hand account, but based on the amount of other Mizzou games I have attended I would venture to say that Coach Pinkel and Mizzou's team treated the Navy team with dignity and respect throughout the Bowl week (and yes, I'm sure there were exceptions to this general statement in regard to the fans, as is the case everywhere). Both teams played well, showed respect for their opponent throughout the game, and I'm sure both teams were emotional afterwards. Navy won, I don't think they needed the Mizzou players there to watch them sing and celebrate. Besides, speaking as a person who has attended various other bowl games, I can assure you that Mizzou's team did not miss out on Navy's songs, as there were probably plenty of opportunities in the days preceeding the bowl where both bands played.

To be clear, I have nothing but respect for the Naval Academy's alma mater, and I feel the same way about Mizzou's. My point is this discussion is beginning to get way off topic, and I think we need to let this thread die.

Hopefully we all can agree on these things below and then go our separate ways!
-Mizzou and Navy both have rich traditions that are equally important to their fans
-Marching Mizzou and the Navy Drum and Bugle Corps had a misunderstanding about these post-game traditions that led to an unintentional overlap of songs, which is common in college football games
-The teams showed respect for their opponent throughout the game
-Coach Pinkel needs to learn how to make a halftime adjustment
-The Triple Option is amazing when executed properly.

Enough everyone. Go enjoy the New Year. Chill out.

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro January 2, 2010 | 1:15 p.m.

I'm not much of a music critic, but next year take my advice.
Both bands need more cowbell.

(Report Comment)
Gregg Gibson January 2, 2010 | 1:24 p.m.

First of all, I agree wholeheartedly with Ray... more cowbell..!!!

Adam, I agree 99.999% with your last post. It was disappointing, however, to see the Missouri coach exit the field so quickly. My point is made, time to move on.

Now let's see how Iowa fares with Georgia Tech's triple option in the Orange Bowl. For those that don't know, GT's Coach Paul Johnson left USNA two years ago, and brought his old-school offense with him. I'm a born-and-bred Iowan, but will be fun to watch.

(Report Comment)
Tim Mahoney January 2, 2010 | 2:20 p.m.


What happened before the game was again a miscommunication. The Mizzou Band was supposed to make a tunnel and play their fight song while their team walked by. Then the Navy D+B was supposed to do the same thing. The problem is, Navy's football team followed the Mizzou football team almost immediately.

We needed to get in to play for our football team. Should we have waited by the side while our football team walked into Reliant Stadium to the Mizzou fight song? Our football team couldn't just stand there and wait for the Mizzou band to finish. They had to get into the stadium and get ready for the game.

Disrespect was meant by neither program. At the conclusion of the game, the Mizzou band was playing. However, as far as I know, no one in the D+B knew the length of the Mizzou post game. At most of the games we've been to, the opposing team plays the fight song when the clock hits 0, and then does the alma mater. I'm not sure if we were given the signal from the bowl officials, but it was a simple miscommunication. Blue and Gold had to be played before the trophy presentation.

To say Mizzou disrespected Navy or that Navy disrespected Mizzou is ridiculous. It was a miscommunication between a couple band kids...why can't it be left at that?

(Report Comment)
Michael Wood January 2, 2010 | 3:41 p.m.

More Cowsills, not cowbells. :)

(Report Comment)
Meg Belcher January 2, 2010 | 6:06 p.m.

To Alex Williams,

I am sorry that you feel that some of your fellow Tiger fans have thrown you under the bus. As we have all read a million times NO disrespect was meant by either bands. There was obviously some MAJOR mis communications when it came to both the bands. Apparently they didn't realize our tradition lasts, what, 7 minutes? OOPS mistake made we've moved on!
But I wanted to direct this comment to you so that you know that not every body is throwing the band under the bus! I LOVE college football, always have! I will admit that I have yet to be able to experience college football out side of Farout Field, The Edward Jones Dome or Arrow head stadium. But in the little experience I have had, I have never found ANY band members to be the problem. It is always the fans, of EITHER team. But I guess that is to be expected. I hope all of the members of Marching Mizzou can let the derogatory comments directed toward them just roll right off of their backs.
One of, if not my favorite parts of the game is M2! I come to cheer the football players on but one of my favorite parts of the atmosphere is MARCHING MIZZOU! You guys truly lead the crowd in cheering on our boys. As a Tiger fan there is NOTHING about Marching Mizzou that makes me shy away from saying, "I am a Tiger fan and I am PROUD of it!"
I know my statement won't detract from what others have said, but I hope it helps you to know that their are members of Tiger Nation out there who stand proudly behind you!
To everything else;
I have to admit it SUCKED when I found out that we were playing a military school. I am the Grand daughter of a proud Marine Vet and Army vet. As well as the niece of veterans of the Marines and the Navy, respectively. I always root for any military school (it makes it hard when they are playing each other TRUST ME! :) ) and it goes against everything I am to root against them. But I am disappointed in the way some people have responded to a simple miscommunication. Mistakes were made, mistakes that weren't even that big. It's part of football, heck it's part of life. How about we all just stand up, admit mistakes were made,and show some RESPECT and thank BOTH Bands, football players, and fans. I know not MANY of our fans may have been left in the stands but there were plenty at home still watching! Don't forget us!

GO Tigers AND NAVY!!!

(Report Comment)
john doe January 2, 2010 | 6:59 p.m.

The Houston Chronicle has a certain user that has posted the emails of Dr.Knight, Dr.Shay, Mike Alden, Brady Deaton and many others in hopes to overflow their boxes with hate mail and nasty complaints. I will not post them here because the many who wish ill to Mizzou on this forum might also choose to try this, but I want to encourage all who express support for these characters and the University of Missouri as a whole to protect our family and email those under scrutiny and communicate your full fledged support for our marching band, its staff, our team, its staff, and our university. I don't know how this "non issue" became so bloated, or how it will be received by our higher ups, but a swell in support certainly will not do any damage. Thanks to all who have expressed their love; your defense means alot to me and others.

(Report Comment)
Kellyn Elysia Gooding January 2, 2010 | 8:19 p.m.

Thank you Alex, and Mr. Lowe. It's as simple as that. No hard feelings meant.

(Report Comment)
ER W January 2, 2010 | 8:36 p.m.

Okay here is my problem with all of this…you all say that Marching Mizzou disrespected the Navy band, but do any of you realize that you are doing the exact same thing? I don’t know how many people have to post this phrase for you all to understand – IT WAS A MISCOMMUNICATION! Drawing any conclusions other than that is just ridiculous. This happens at every single sporting event when there are two bands involved. It is nearly impossible prior to, during, and after a game to communicate with the other band (who is often across the field), it’s just a fact of life. I am sure that every college band has some sort of post-game tradition – Oklahoma and Oklahoma State do post game concerts for example – they are all important and no disrespect is meant by unintentionally or unknowingly playing simultaneously.

Here’s a question…where was this post two (now three) years ago at the 2007 MU v KU football game when the Kansas band played over the MU band during the traditional set? Or during the Nebraska game when their band played (what seemed like) continuously? As a former Marching Mizzou member I can answer….it happens all the time, you aren’t always aware of what the other band is doing. Marching Mizzou plays post game to tell our boys good job and to thank our fans for being there. You are entirely wrong when you say there weren’t fans there how about the 300 people you disrespected? They are the best fans in the world; they are there with the team through everything; win lose, rain or shine – and they are there voluntarily.
Finally, calling for MDK’s or any of the MU athletic official’s jobs! Again with this phrase….IT WAS A MISCOMMUNICATION!!! GET OVER IT! Dr. Knight did nothing wrong and his letter to the Navy band director proves just how respectful he is of other collegiate institution’s traditions. Marching Mizzou is a fine organization and I, like many of the former and current members, feel hurt and disrespected by your unnecessary words and misunderstanding of a simple situation. Had this not been one of the armed forces universities I do not think that any of the posts would have even been given the light of day.

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro January 2, 2010 | 9:29 p.m.

If you ever go into a bar, stay away from drunken sailors.

(Report Comment)
NAVY SUCKS January 2, 2010 | 10:52 p.m.

No worries, I have M2 where ever I go.

As we have seen they do what they want when they want. I have no doubts they would dust off a seamen if I run into any trouble.


(Report Comment)
Jane Smith January 3, 2010 | 2:21 a.m.

First off, @NS, I don't think many M2 members would support you in that statement seeing as we met their D+B Corps and thought they were all great people.

Second of all, the main issue has been resolved, let's leave it there.

Finally, the part that still angers me is that this article is still online even though it is (as Alex Williams said) Defaming and somewhat Slander.

(Report Comment)
john rieck January 3, 2010 | 2:55 a.m.

I was there in Houston. And I have something to say to the band: THANK YOU!! The Mizzou band was the best thing about the whole day for me. From the pre-game tailgate at Reliant to the final playing of "Fight Tiger" you were at the top of your game. Living in south Texas, I do not get to attend many MU football games these days. After the game, I moved down to front row, adjacent to the band to get some good pictures and video and soak in the sound. In my 4 years at Mizzou, I do not think I ever stayed after a game to listen to the band. My loss! Reading this thread has been---among other things---informative, especially regarding our post-game tradition. One thing is for time I'm at a Mizzou home game, I will make it a priority to stay after the game and listen to the band. Marching guys were fantastic, keep up the good work and one more time...THANKS!

(Report Comment)
NAVY SUCKS January 3, 2010 | 12:11 p.m.
This comment has been removed.
Rob Weir January 3, 2010 | 1:27 p.m.

Hi all,

As we're following this comment thread, we're also trying to do some journalism here (to find out what exactly happened so we can do a reported story, not just rely on a letter). If any of you have some insight into the event, it would be great if you could contact the newsroom. Please call 573-882-5720 for the news desk and ask for the assistant city editor on duty. Alternatively, you can e-mail the newsroom at this address:

Also, thanks for keeping the conversation civil. This has clearly stirred up emotions for a lot of people, and it's great we can have an honest discussion about it.

Rob Weir
Director of Digital Delvopment (aka Web dude)
The Columbia Missourian

(Report Comment)
NAVY SUCKS January 3, 2010 | 6:38 p.m.
This comment has been removed.
Triangle Player January 3, 2010 | 9:06 p.m.

All I am going to say is that if Marching Mizzou had a triangle player then this would not have been an issue. As we know, the triangle is the most respected instrument in music.

What Dr. Knight now needs to do is add a triangle player to Marching Mizzou.

1. This would truly make M2 the best damn band in the land!

2. There would have been no boos from the rude Navy fans

3. As we all now know, the triangle is the greatest instrument in existence.

Tell me what you guys think? I think it is probably the greatest idea in the history of music!

(Report Comment)
W. Arthur Mehrhoff January 4, 2010 | 12:22 p.m.

Television is not particularly kind to tradition in general, but it’s been brutal on Mizzou traditions this year. It bankrolled us to switch the Nebraska game from a beautiful October Saturday afternoon to a Thursday evening monsoon, which then left us with Texas as our date for Homecoming. The football gods were not amused.
The Big Band Brouhaha seems to fit right into this pattern. Greg Lowe observed: “[My daughter] said the [Navy] D&B were waiting for [Missouri’s band] to finish, when either ESPN or Texas Bowl officials told them to start playing or forget about doing it all together because they needed to get to the presentation of the Bowl Trophy. Blue and Gold is a tradition that can’t be skipped, so away they went.” If that's the case, Television once again trampled Tradition.
A larger question than whose tradition (Mizzou or Navy) should prevail might be whether television should trump our highly valued traditions. Is the real game on the field or on the screen?

PS Kudos to band members who wrote so eloquently about your director and what Mizzou and Marching Mizzou means to you. That's been the high point of this thread, for me at least.

(Report Comment)
Tim Dance January 4, 2010 | 6:06 p.m.

Get a life folks, it's a freaking band. I'm a veteran, but there is more pressing issues for our military other than one band played over the other.


(Report Comment)
Rob Weir January 5, 2010 | 9:25 a.m.

For those of you following the comment thread, here's a story about what happened:

(Report Comment)
Ellis Smith January 6, 2010 | 12:06 p.m.

@ Gregg Gibson. Re your remark, now we know how Iowa fared against the Georgia Tech offense: the Hawkeyes smothered it! 24-14 favor of Iowa, but other stats were more revealing: more than 400 total yards for Iowa versus slightly more than 150 for Tech. Iowa, which in 2009 had a pathetic running game, surpassed Tech for rushing yards!

Some say the Big 10 is a weak football conference but Big 10 teams understand defense. The top 2009 teams, Ohio State, Iowa and Penn State, mounted brilliant defenses in their respective bowl games.

(Report Comment)
Gregg Gibson January 6, 2010 | 7:48 p.m.

You're right, Ellis. Iowa played a VERY good game, both offensively and defensively. Hats off to Coach Ferentz, who I have always thought is a good coach, and his staff for their preparation and execution.

(Report Comment)
Ellis Smith January 7, 2010 | 5:42 a.m.

Believe it or not, the band business at the Texas Bowl and Iowa's surprise victory at the Orange Bowl may have a commonality. We are advised that the band situation was a communications problem; nobody told the Iowa team and coaches they weren't supposed to win, so they went out and won!

Ricky Stanzi throws a lot of interceptions (five in one 2009 game against Indiana); otherwise, the Orange Bowl score would have been 24-7.

(Report Comment)

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