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TODAY'S QUESTION: What do you think about Proposition B?

Wednesday, September 15, 2010 | 12:34 p.m. CDT

Voters will soon shape the future of dog breeding in Missouri.

Proposition B, formally known as the Puppy Mill Cruelty Prevention Act, aims to prohibit cruel treatment of dogs in large breeding operations and requires proper nourishment, shelter and veterinary care for them.

Supporters of Proposition B gathered Monday evening at Cafe Berlin to hear the president of The Humane Society of the United States speak about the statute's importance. He argued that there had never been a more important dog protection measure in the history of the United States.

Opponents of Proposition B also gathered Monday outside Cafe Berlin to protest. They say the regulations would require expensive renovations for dog breeders.

The measure is on the November ballot.

What do you think? Do you support Proposition B?


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Comments

mike whitworth September 16, 2010 | 9:17 p.m.

I don't know how any rational or reasonably compassionate person could oppose this bill. It simply requires breeders to give the dogs the minimum comforts and shelter that any animal deserves. The legitimate breeders are not affected nor are they opposing this bill. It is only those who want to operate in squalid conditions with no regard to the dogs or the buyers who seek to oppose and confuse this legislation.

(Report Comment)
JR Martin September 17, 2010 | 12:59 p.m.

Unfortunately Mike Whitworth is ill-informed about Prop B, as are most of Missourian residents. Prop B won't do a single thing for people who raise dogs in squander because those people don't have a license in the first place, therefore they are not inspected and no one knows they exist. The legitimate, licensed breeders are the ones to suffer why the unlicensed breeders will flourish making the problem even worse than it is. With the passage of this bill you can expect a huge increase in the cost of purebred puppies, and someone will need to pay for enforcing this new law. Also, while the bill says that dogs must have heat and a/c I know several families that don't even have a/c! So we are going to give dogs rights that excel those of humans? My biggest problem with this bill is that it won't be long and the Humane Society will be telling cattle producers how many cattle they can own, and pork producers how many hogs they can have, sounds like government control to me. Hmmmm, how long before they will tell the U.S. citizen how many children they can have or how many cars they can own, kind of reminds you of communism doesn't it?

(Report Comment)
emmett monks September 17, 2010 | 1:07 p.m.

Mike, I have it on good authority that 90% of missouri,s inspected and registared dog breeders could not meet the new requirements in prop B. It only takes a little commen sense to realize that any agricultural related business will only prosper if there animals are treated as well as their children. Anything less is doomed to failure.If missouri has a puppymill problem it is irresponsible , unliscensed,and unregulated breeders, who will not be affected by this bill.niether will hoarders or irrisponsibe petowners

(Report Comment)
emmett monks September 17, 2010 | 1:46 p.m.

It is not the dogs .......... It is the first step to animal control by HSUS. Update: Animal Rights Activists have spent 1.7 million dollars (mostly from out of state) to control Missouri Livestock. Read on:

If you look at the wording in the petition, you will see under section 9: " "PET" MEANS ANY DOMESTICATED ANIMAL NORMALLY MAINTAINED IN OR NEAR THE HOUSEHOLD OF THE OWNER THEREOF" Do Not be fooled! Go to Wikipedia and look up domesticated animal. Proposition B will allow HSUS to take control of your cattle, goats, sheep and all other animals that man has domesticated. HSUS built this in as a loop hole, so they could easily come back and control all of Missouri's animals. Did you know Missouri is the #2 beef producing state in the USA? For the most part, Animal Activists are vegans. It will also take well over 1/2 a million dollars of Missouri taxpayer's money to inforce this Proposition each year. Can Missouri's economy really afford this loss of income and additional expense right now?

(Report Comment)
Jessica Rutherfrod September 17, 2010 | 2:18 p.m.

I think everyone in missouri needs to read this bill and understand if they vote for it what it will do to our state. Why put a number on how many pets we can own and how we need to take care of them. Why not just regulate how they are being taken care of and make sure they are. Don't let the government and the HSUS control anything else. Please everyone this is not right at all!! It is not the puppymill's its hurting. It is the honest people that are licensed and taking care of there pets probably better then most people that just have one dog. Is it right that breeders have to go through all this and not the average person that just owns a few domesticated animals or I'm sure that will be next were if they drive by your house and your dogs outside and its 85 degrees you will get a ticket.. I'm sure that is coming if we missourians let this pass.. I'm telling this bill is not right at all. I love animals but let's see a bill different then this one. This is kinda like Obama's health care that he is forcing on us. Do you think that is right? Well if you don't then don't vote on this. Because this bill will do nothing to puppy mill's those places are not license in the first place.. Please Vote No on PROP B... If you do look for China to have the Dog market and they will just import them like they do everything else.. Vote NO!!!!!!!

(Report Comment)
Ruth Keezer September 17, 2010 | 3:08 p.m.

We have 22 pages of USDA regulations about food, water, vet care, housing, pen sizes, temperature requirements, ventilation, storage of bedding & supplies, sanitation, transportation, etc. Everything legal, licenced dog breeders do is regulated already!

What Prop B does is limit property rights (maximum of 50 dogs, no matter how many members of the family or hired assistants are avaiilable to take care of the dogs), dictate total elimation of kennel designs that are healthier and cleaner (demands dogs all reside on solid surfaces at ground level (concrete, not grass)...where they will be easy prey to the ticks, fleas, and other critters that suck their blood or bite them), plus labels ALL breeders that have over 10 dogs 'puppymills', no matter how perfect they are. This is derogatory and insulting to ALL good breeders!

There are other provisions in Prop B that are detrimental, including temperature requirements of 50 to 85 degrees (newborn puppies require a much higher temperature to survive, and most heavily-coated dogs will rebel at the heat).

By the way, Prop B WILL NOT AFFECT THE ILLEGAL, UNLICENSED DOG BREEDERS WHO DO NOT OBEY THE CURRENT REGULATIONS. They will be still evading the law when the legal breeders are gone. Sub-standard breeders no doubt love this proposition! This will eliminate their competition for puppy sales! Do you want your next puppy to come from an illegal kennel?

(Report Comment)
Janette Hatfield September 17, 2010 | 3:40 p.m.

Please vote NO on Proposition B. The Humane Society of the United States is a corrupt organization!!! For every $10 you donate, ONLY 5 cents goes to actual shelters. The summary on the ballot will be very vague and misleading. It will refer to breeders as 'puppymills'. Make no mistake about it, this is not about kennels. This is about pushing their beliefs about animal ownership and meat consumption on everyone. Pet producers are their first target. If we don't stop them, livestock production is next! LEGITIMATE breeders WILL be affected. They are already following the rules. If this passes, state inspectors will be spending more time inspecting people already taking care of their dogs instead of using much needed time looking for the ILLEGITIMATE breeders who DO NOT have a license with the state of Missouri...PEOPLE! EDUCATE YOURSELVES. Stop letting others think for you! humanewatch.org consumerfreedom.com thealliancefortruth.com

(Report Comment)
Kathleen Summers September 17, 2010 | 9:27 p.m.

The puppy mill industry doesn't want to admit that they are against better conditions for dogs so they come up with nonsense about HSUS and cattle. Fact is, thousands of dogs in Missouri are living in cruel conditions just to make a profit for their owners, and those very same owners won't give them decent care in return. I have seen it. And it has to stop. Prop B will ensure dogs get clean conditions, nutritious food and constant access to clean, unfrozen water. Current MO laws don't even require kennels to give dogs regular access to water! Instead, dogs shiver in the cold all winter long, with only solid ice in their water bowls. No animal should have to live like that. It is hideously cruel, and it has to stop. Vote yes on Proposition B and give dogs the basic protections they deserve.

(Report Comment)
Cody Hobbs September 17, 2010 | 11:19 p.m.

The HSUS and the Humane Society of Missouri are putting an attack on all dog breeders in the state of Missouri. It is called Propostition B and will be on the ballot this coming November.
They are using words like 'puppy mill' and 'cruelty' to sway people to vote for Proposition B, however it is not going to affect the people who have puppy mills, who are cruel to animals, and are operating illegally but, it is going to affect the responsible state and/or USDA licensed breeders who do their jobs the right way and love what they do.
Being a proud kennel owner in Barry County this is going to affect me, my family, and my friends that are dog breeders. My family has been in the pet industry for 20+ years and
has always been in compliance with State and USDA's strict regulations. I know my friends who are dog breeders who live all over Missouri are also in compliance with these regulations be-
cause if they weren't they would no longer be in business.
The simple fact of the matter is that responsible dog breeder work hard to produce happy,healthy puppies and put them in safe, happy homes. We strive to give our dogs and puppies the
best quality care including the proper vet care, adequate food, water, and shelter, and the proper vaccinations. We have strict guidelines on how big our kennel runs have to be and how often they have to be cleaned. In all honesty we treat our dogs better than some people treat their children. We are proud to be dog breeders and love doing our jobs, and that is, quite frankly, what it is all about.
Now that I have defended our industry the best that I know how let me also mention this.The HSUS is against all animal agriculture. If they get this passed in the state it will give thema strong hold here in Missouri and they will attack everything. The chicken and turkey farmers, the beef and dairy farmers, the swine farmers and the goat and sheep farmers will not be safe
from their attack!!! If these things are taken away by HSUS what in the world are we going to eat? You also have to think about all the jobs that will be lost. The unemployment rate is huge and this will only make it worse. Not only will it put the dog breeders out business but, the vet clinics will suffer, the feed stores will suffer, and families all across the state will suffer.
Please tell your family, your friends, and strangers. Put a sign up in your yards and support the agriculture in the state of Missouri. When you go to the polls in November send the HSUS a message and tell them to leave Missouri alone. Pet breeders and farmers across the state are asking you and would appreciate you to vote NO on Proposition B.

(Report Comment)
Peggy Schmitt September 17, 2010 | 11:27 p.m.

Kathleen Summers you have no idea what you are talking about our dogs get the vet care needed our vet bills at the end of the year are well over 10,000.00 every year, we get up very early and bust ice and water our dogs in the winter, we do that 2-3 times a day every day I can not speak for most but that is how we do it, we feed Royal Canin dog food to all of our dogs, we have two buildings one is 20 x 40 and the other is 12 x 16 with inside and outside runs, our kennel runs for our dogs are 10ft x 16ft & 12ft x 16ft and we have a few that are 30 X 40 each kennel only has 1 or 2 dogs max.... we have insulated dog house with doors on them and we have built some of the houses with very expensive insulation in the walls of them, we have put heat lights or pads in them, we have dogs that love to play in the water in the summer time so they have little swimming pools, we have spent a few thousands on big industrial fans to put on our dogs in the summer.... what the Prop. B is saying that all inside kennels (meaning in a building) needs to be 9ft x 12ft for one Chihuahua that is about the size of most bedrooms, people can not do that and also the HSUS as excepted them selves from the very laws they are trying to pass with Prop B that is wrong and they know it if it was about the animals they would do it as well!!!! it is a control issue. We care about our animals with all our hearts I completely adore them with everything in me we have even rescued dogs and got them vet care and found them homes. The problem is the breeders that are not licensed,inspected etc... they have no rule to follow so they do the very minimum to get by and yes that is wrong i do agree, but the HSUS and the public needs to go after those breeders and leave the licensed ones alone. SO DO YOUR HOMEWORK EVERYONE AND HAVE SOME COMMON SENSE, would it make good business sense for a breeder not to take the best care of their animals? that is their lively hood and if they are not in good health they will not breed/or carry thru with a pregnancy stop and think about it, those that do not take care of their dogs will not make it in the business.... On KY3 9-16 they stated that the tax payers are going to pay a million in extra taxes to fund the the cost of enforcing the the new laws/ rules.
WAKE THE HELL UP... VOTE NO ON PROP B....

(Report Comment)
Kara Crass September 18, 2010 | 12:03 a.m.

Kathleen Summers, Shame on you if you know of unlicensed puppy mills, who's dogs are suffering, and you have done nothing about it. If you truly cared so much for the well being of these dogs, why haven't you turned these people in to "Bark Alert". (That is a program we already have in place to find and shut these places down.) Or is it perhaps, that you are really just spouting the same old lies that all animal activists are these days?
If you want to send me your email address, I will send you the 23 pages of regulations that we have to follow. As to your ridiculous accusation that we don't have to provide our dogs with access to water.....you people are beating a dead horse, I think we have proven that we DO in fact have to provide them with clean food and water.

And just in case you don't know how to find the regulations online or don't want to send your email address here is that specific regulation, MO Dept Of Ag, ACFA CSR 30-9 page 18, 2nd column, Item (C):

1. "Animals must be fed at least once each 12 hours.... The food must be uncontaminated, wholesome, palatable and of sufficient quantity and nutritive value to maintain the normal condition and weight of the animal. The diet must be appropriate for the individual animal's age and condition."
2. "Food receptacles used for animlas must be readily accessible to all animals and must be located so as to minimize contamination by excreta and pests and be protected from rain and snow..."

(D) Watering:
If potable water is not continually available to the animals, it must be offered to the animals as often as necessary to ensure their health and well-being, but not less than once each 8 hours for at least 1 hour each time, unless restricted by the attending veterinarian. Water receptacles must be kept clean and sanitized in accordance with this rule....

I know people who leave their pets in crates for 10 hours a day, while they are at work, with no food and water. Should we also make that illegal? It certainly sounds inhumane to me, those poor dogs can't even go to the bathroom.

Better yet, I know people who make 2 or 3 of their children share a 10x12 room. And won't allow them constant and unfettered access to the outdoors for exercise. Some of them don't have heat and airconditioning. Let's create a law for that.

And while we're at it. Until all 123,000 children up for adoption find a home, let's make these selfish people out there stop having babies!!!

Please just use a little common sense and research the proposition. I respectively ask you to VOTE NO ON PROPOSITION B. I have faith that Missourians will see throught the propoganda.

(Report Comment)
Jodeen Wolff September 18, 2010 | 8:29 a.m.

Sad thing is this will put many industries in MO out of business including Veterinary Practices.
When Professional Pet Providers go out of business so do all industries which provide for them.
Groomers, dog food industry, transportation industry, pet suppliers, kids and adults who work for these Pet Professionals, advertising companies, etc...
The list goes on and on.
In turn the Pet Professionals stimulate MO economy with their income.
These Pet Professionals work hard at what they do.
Can MO afford to support the Pet Professionals when they are run out of business?
Can MO afford to support all the other industries that are lost when they are run out of business?
Less people will be paying taxes but more people will be forced to get on the system.
MO Taxpayers are you ready for a financial ruin??
Vote NO for Prop B !

(Report Comment)
caryl freeman September 18, 2010 | 11:11 a.m.

Kathleen Summers it's ashamed you have never had the oppurtunity to really see a licensed kennel and how it operates you are welcome to visit mine. Give me a call Caryl Freeman 620-404-8599

(Report Comment)
Nancy Smith September 18, 2010 | 2:55 p.m.

One of the first provisions of this bill that caught my eye (negatively) is the requirement that dogs must have unfettered access to the out of doors. I have small dogs. They have a nice, fenced, grassy, shaded play yard. But...it is my responsibility to decide when they get to exercise out of doors. They have indoor runs. I don't want them out in stormy, icy, cold, hot weather. I don't want them out a night when owls might be hungry. I don't want them hurt by other nocturnal animals. These dogs are my property, and I want the right to protect my property. Children should get to play out of doors as well...but not at their whim! What if a litter of puppies follows mother outside and can't get back in when she comes. Die in the heat? Freeze? There are already laws on the books to cover bad breeding/husbandry issues. Let's enforce those and leave the good guys alone. And, Mike, none of my dog breeder friends (reputable!!) agree that this is a good law. It won't stop the bad guys anymore than gun laws stop the criminals.

(Report Comment)
mike whitworth September 18, 2010 | 4:12 p.m.

I am an attorney and know how to read and interpret bills. All of you fear mongers against this bill either are incapable of ascertaining the meaning, or are just trying to spread false propaganda to confuse the issues. And JR Martin, the word is squaler, not squander.

(Report Comment)
Thomas Dowell September 18, 2010 | 4:45 p.m.

@Mike Whitworth,
Sir, I'd invite you to come to southwest Missouri and see the Kennels that will be put out of business by this measure. Many owners are my friends and customers, and I wouldn't hesitate in the least to buy a puppy from them, or leave one of my animals at their facilities. You sir are either a plant for the animal rights nuts or really honestly have no idea what you are talking about. This prop would wipe out an entire legitimate industry in an area of the state that had very little else. The people who own these kennels take pride in their work and pride in their animals! If you want to go after the Illegal puppy mills, I'll be right alongside you, but hurting these legitimate business people in the name if bogus “animal rights" is WRONG. If you want to visit the legitimate kennels you will put out of business with this fiasco of a prop, you can e-mail me at tmdowell@yahoo.com and I will gladly arrange some tours.

(Report Comment)
Ruth Keezer September 18, 2010 | 4:52 p.m.

Mike, I am a legal, licensed dog breeder, and I know how to read and interpret this bill, too. It doesn't take a lawyer to also see the intent behind this bill, and the agenda of the HSUS (the primary monetary supporter of this bill). Missourians are NOT stupid, but are reacting emotionally to the buzz-words and images created by the HSUS and the animal rights activists. The title of this bill 'Puppy Mill Cruelty Act' was chosen very deliberately by the HSUS. The word Puppymill is derogatory, demeaning, inflammatory, and insulting to caring, legal, licenced, inspected dog breeders!

(Report Comment)
connie crewse September 18, 2010 | 5:16 p.m.

The theme to pay close attention to on this Prop B, is 'who' is instigating and funding all of this?....Is it concerned Missouri citizens?....NO! It's from AR groups that aren't even here in Missouri! Get acquainted with PETA & H$U$ BEFORE you vote! Go to the following sites and learn a little about who's backing all of this. These sites are to inform Americans about these radical AR (Animal Rights) groups and the devastating effects they leave behind once they get your vote, money AND control of your state!

www.animalscam.com
www.activistcash.com
www.consumerfreedom.com
www.aliancefortruth.com
www.humanewatch.org
www.mofed.org
www.petbreederandowners.com

What a sobering thought that we have our loved ones overseas sacrificing their lives for our rights and freedoms and then we have H$U$ and PETA taking away those same rights and freedoms with their lies!

Below are some quotes from Wayne Pacelle(President & CEO) of H$U$....see if this is what you want controlling Missouri's Animal Agriculture:

“We are going to use the ballot box and the democratic process to stop all hunting in the United States ... We will take it species by species until all hunting is stopped in California. Then we will take it state by state.”
— Full Cry magazine, Oct 1990

“We have no ethical obligation to preserve the different breeds of livestock produced through selective breeding ...One generation and out. We have no problems with the extinction of domestic animals. They are creations of human selective breeding.”
— Animal People News, May 1993

“We would be foolish and silly not to unite with people in the public health sector, the environmental community,[and] unions, to try to challenge corporate agriculture.”
—“Animal Rights 2002” convention, Jul 2002

Below are some more quotes from other 'leaders' within the H$U$:

"The life of an ant and that of my child should be granted equal consideration."
-Michael W. Fox, HSUS Senior Scholar

"My goal is the abolition of all animal agriculture."
-J.P. Goodwin, manager of animal fighting issues for the HSUS'
Animal Cruelty and Fighting Campaign; former member of ecoterrorist group ALF (Animal Liberation Front)

"...nothing is more important than promoting veganism."
-Paul Shapiro, Director of HSUS Factory Farming Campaign

One more point to address: Domestic Animal
You want people to believe that in Prop B this will ONLY affect the dog breeders? The definition of a 'domestic animal' according to Merriam-Webster is:

"Main Entry: domestic animal
Function: noun
: any of various animals (as the horse or sheep) domesticated so as to live and breed in a tame condition"

Now, folks, think it's still just a 'dog' issue? Think again! It WILL affect ALL animal agriculture! Why do you think the Cattlemans Association is fighting so hard if it really only pertained to the 'dog' breeders?....Mmmmmm

SAY NO to PETA & H$U$!!
VOTE NO on PROP B and Keep your rights in Missouri!!

(Report Comment)
Linda Hopper September 18, 2010 | 7:02 p.m.

It is totally amazing to me that people are sitting around wanting to cause all this problem for licensed kennels but in the same breath they are wanting to exclude animal shelters and rescue kennels. Why would that be? They should have to abide by the same laws and regulations that the licensed breeders would have to. I have been to a lot of shelters and rescues and am sickened 90% of the time. If you want to see sad and abused animals go to a shelter. And believe me they don't come from kennels. They come from the streets where some owner decided they no longer wanted them. They are definitely crowded and fed the bare minimum to keep them alive. They don't have the luxury of space to move around in. And why exclude the bird dogs? They are a domestic dog. Who's idea is it that someone should be free of all the rules and regulations? Looks as if one of the parties that helped dream up all this baloney is an avid bird hunter or likes that breed.
When you see even more homeless and hungry people you will have only yourself to blame if you vote for Proposal B. You can sit back and think it will not affect you all you want but in the long run it will cause a ripple and we will all see the dramatic results. Missouri is really in an economic pit right now without the added loss this will cause. Why listen to all the propaganda. Read the Proposition and see if you are able to think for yourselves. Once not to many years ago we were all thinking and functioning Americans. Now I think most people are just a bunch of sheep that are being led by one messed up group. Wake up and think for yourselves.

(Report Comment)
Leonard Audsley September 18, 2010 | 9:00 p.m.

Do you love your pet? If so, please vote no on Proposition B - or the mislabeled: "Puppy Mill Cruelty Prevention Act”. It only goes after the responsible State & Federally licensed breeders. If someone wants to raise puppies illegally, they can already do it in hidden areas and back woods. If it passes, this ballot initiative will insure that the true "Puppy Mills" will thrive with higher puppy prices, while the majority of the legal breeders will be forced out of business. Sounds crazy, but it will actually HELP the bad guys.

What's more the sponsor of the initiative- the Humane Society of the United States,(HSUS) is working on an incremental plan to start by tugging at our heart strings with puppies, and then they plan to come after all animal agriculture. Ultimately they wish to eliminate all animal ownership. "No animal should be owned, sold, hunted, or eaten" is their motto.

Let’s hold on to our rights. This must stop here.
Vote NO on Prop B this November 2
Leonard Audsley
A Missouri Farmer & Dog Owner

(Report Comment)
Kathleen Summers September 19, 2010 | 7:39 p.m.

@Kara, I am not speaking of unlicensed puppy mills, but licensed ones. Today, it is perfectly legal in Missouri to keep dogs in tiny stacked, wire cages identical to chicken coops 24/7, for life. It is legal to leave dogs shivering in the cold with frozen water and without regular vet care. Prop B addresses all these issues, which are NOT ILLEGAL under current Missouri law. Vote yes on Prop B!

(Report Comment)
Ruth Elledge September 19, 2010 | 8:01 p.m.

I am absolutely flabbergasted by some of the absurd comments made above by opponents of Prop B. This bill simply requires adequate food, shelter, exercise and rest for breeding dogs. Too many of you are obviously buying into the propaganda and untruths being spread by those who are misinterpreting what is written in this bill.

I've seen my share of dogs in puppy mills as well as dogs released from puppy mills and it is one horror story after another. If those of you in the business of breeding dogs are doing everything by the book, then you have nothing to worry about when this legislation passes. If you're not, then please consider a real job that doesn't use and abuse these animals who have no voice. Perhaps then we will see a reduction in the number of dogs killed in shelters (one every 1.5 seconds!) simply because they have no homes. And to the person who said several dog-related industries will suffer if this bill passes......if the 4million dogs killed every year were given homes that are now being taken away by your breeding operations, those businesses will not only not be affected, they will flourish. Perhaps that's the direction your business should take.

(Report Comment)
Cassie Morr September 19, 2010 | 8:01 p.m.

Ohhh my... Wowwww!! I can NOT believe how many people are saying they're opposed to the proper care of pets in puppy mills. I'm in total shock! That explains why we are the puppy mill state capital of the world, a disheartening fact that places money above the well being of "family pets" and allows people to treat them like cattle, when they're not and compare them to cattle on here, in their responses. It's also the reason THOUSANDS of dogs die every year!! There is no justification for neglecting your pets, whether you're a back yard breeder or a licensed breeder. If you cannot afford to house them properly; feed them adequately, give them room to move and to protect them from the elements... then you shouldn't have them. They're not disposable, replaceable or insignificant creatures you can do with what you please, because you have no moral character and are only looking to make money.

@Jodeen Wolff This only affects people who are cruel to animals, not me or other people who actually CARE about animals. Just YOU!

VOTE YES on PROP B if you love your dog!!

If you want to preserve the life of all other dogs and protect them from unscrupulous mass dog breeders. Vote YES of Prop B!!!!!!!

Sincerely, Cassandra Morr ~ Pet Stylist and pet advocate!

(Report Comment)
Rob Fink September 19, 2010 | 8:05 p.m.

The heart of the bill is this:
"4. Notwithstanding any other provision of law, no person may have custody of more than fifty covered dogs for the purpose of breeding those animals and selling any offspring for use as a pet."

Dog breeding, except for backyard and hobby breeders, is to be effectively banned. Where else do we automatically assume that big is bad? Hospitals? Schools? (You can keep my share of less than 50 bed hospitals, btw.)

It is not about the conditions the dogs are to be kept in -- these are already regulated. If new or tougher regulation of conditions were being proposed, they could be considered and debated. Even if they made no sense, they still could be adopted, only increasing the cost of pet ownership. But Prop B basically ends dog breeding.

Some say that there is a surplus of dogs. Yet shelters import dogs from the streets of Mexico and Puerto Rico -- and these unknown dogs are the source of many health problems in my state of Massachusetts, because nobody has taken care of them until they are rounded up. They bring these dogs in because they can sell them for several hundred dollars each (whoops, I mean collect "adoption fees"). This, btw, is a profitable business (see www dot sterlingshelterwatch dot com for an examination of the tax returns of one shelter).

Because of the USDA kennels, people are able to own a healthy pet dog for a few hundred dollars. If that ends, many people will be shut out of pet ownership. It isn't just a nice thing; there are actually significant health and quality of life benefits from owning a dog.

But the ban probably won't be successful, even if it passes. Instead of the current regulated business, it will become an illegal one and hidden one.

Who could possibly think that would benefit either the dogs or the pet owner? Go ahead and regulate the business, but don't ban it.

(Report Comment)
Cassie Morr September 19, 2010 | 9:06 p.m.

@Rob Fink So how many dogs do you need exactly? I'm curious what numbers you're hoping for? How many can you (without any hired help) insure are being cared for properly?

I have 3 dogs, whom I consider my children and it's a decent task to love each one adequately, when all three are vying for my attention. How much love do your breeding dogs get when you strive for #'s exceeding 50?!

Crazy question, cause I've met puppy mill moms and dads and I've seen first hand their eyes, that have turned empty. They don't know human kindness at all!!!!! They've never been exposed to anything resembling warmth and are petrified to the point they look for a cage to run back to, when offered freedom. I work with dogs everyday, as a pet stylist and the worst thing I've ever seen in the way of cruelty was that empty look in the eyes of a puppy mill dog, who had totally given up. For dogs, that's not something that comes natural to them. They are forever fighters and unlike people, they're not ones to complain, but being in a puppy mill for 8 yrs basically kills them in every way but their heart beat.

None of you are pulling my heartstrings to tell me how much money you might lose, not being able to hold captive and breed 100's of dogs, because you'd rather not afford their care or feel you need more than 50!! My heart sank reading all these comments, cause I'd like to see more good people on here speaking out for the dogs!

Where are the normal people?

(Report Comment)
connie crewse September 19, 2010 | 9:21 p.m.

HEY AMERICANS AND VETERANS!! Read this quote from the H$U$:

“Even though people may not have someone in their family fighting in Iraq, American soldiers are seen in the news. But people are not being bombarded with images of cows, sheep, pigs and chickens being abused.”
Mary Max, HSUS Board of Directors, Humane USA Board of
Directors, member Advisory Board of New York League of Humane Voters, founder of Kind Green Planet, quoted in Greenpoint Gazette interview, October 2008

The above quote in my opinion, and MANY others I'm sure, is something you would here from America's enemy! Who openly states something like that? The 'enemy' does, that's who!

We need to shed some light on these groups and hang them with their own ropes (quotes)!

What do PATRIOTIC Americans do on the Fourth of July?....Celebrate right? Celebrate with.....FIREWORKS? Yes, that's right too! It's symbolic for our great Nation to have firework displays right?......Well not if H$U$ has anything to say about it! Check out this other little fun fact/quote:

"While fireworks are enjoyable for many people, they can be devastating for animals. The loud booms and cracks frighten most animals sending many of them into a frenzy. The cracking of fireworks can be so traumatic that the result is intense stress and fear with possible long-lasting
anxiety effects. The question is whether people can be entertained in ways that do not produce fear, injury, or death to other living beings." Paula Kislak, DVM, Association of Veterinarians for
Animal Rights, HSUS Board of Directors Quoted in StopFireworks Campaign

This group may think they evolved from a monkey, but I didn't, and I'm not a baboon to believe their ridiculous garbage!

VOTE NO ON PROP B!!
Good ridens H$U$, PETA & ASPCA!!! Go save a snail somewhere in a cave overseas........with the other terrorists!!
LEAVE AMERICA ALONE!

Say NO to PETA
Vote NO to Prop B!!

Good Missourians 'SUPPORT our TROOPS' and will Vote NO on Prop B!

(Report Comment)
connie crewse September 19, 2010 | 9:53 p.m.

Cassie Morr-

Mmmmm, people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones should they Cassie? What will you do once you can't make money off of 'helpless' little dogs anymore?

Pet Stylist? Now you're an expert on this? You don't have the slightest idea how to maintain a facility. If all I did was shampoo, dry and style, I wouldn't go and bash Suave and tell them how NOT to abuse animals in Labs to get the perfect blend of a product!....Oh, I guess I would if I 'thought' I knew it all like you 'think' you do. Your a joke!

Mmmmm, shampoo+style=expert?
Deductive reasoning=you've looked in their eyes!
OMG!....What a hoot! I can hardly type from laughing so hard! People like you shouldn't run with scissors!! ;0)

Like I stated earlier, give people enough rope, and they eventually hang themselves!

Vote NO on Prop B!! Save the Pet Stylist job!!! LMBO!!

(Report Comment)
Cassie Morr September 19, 2010 | 9:58 p.m.

@ Connie... Your comment has nothing to do with the topic, but to humor you... there are dogs of war, who would argue your patriotism and who have ACTUALLY contributed to our own freedom by giving up their lives, in a way that didn't earn YOU a cent! They led happy lives up until that point too, with people who loved them! They do it daily! No thanks to you! Any truly knowledgeable person knows not to get a purebred dog from Missouri if they're wanting a healthy dog and not some inbred, with lots of health problems. The breeders here have a thing called "line breeding" when they breed brother to sister. That's the hillbilly way! It saves money and they don't see a problem with it. If you're in favor of that vote with them!

If not and you'd like to see thoughtful breeding done in Missouri, where our very own German Shepherds are healthy examples of what they should be... vote YES on Prop B!

(Report Comment)
Cassie Morr September 19, 2010 | 10:09 p.m.

@ Connie I've had more hands on dog handling experience than you've ever had or any one of these breeders. I actually interact with them. It's one of the great aspects of being a pet stylist, to actually enjoy being around them. I'm not in it for the money, so much as I LOVE DOGS!!! You haven't hurt my feelings, since you're (not your) not hardly worthy.

(Report Comment)
Cassie Morr September 19, 2010 | 11:05 p.m.

@Connie You laughed, but curious what you see in their eyes and in your own eyes, when you sleep? Hopefully you just can't! Sleep is for people who have led honest, decent lives and who've tried to earn an honest living through their own hard work. Never at the expense of another creature. Most people are striving everyday to preserve, not to desecrate, humiliate and destroy. There is a huge difference between our supposed "jobs"! Mine makes it easy for me me to go to sleep at night! I love animals and feel great when I leave, cause they love me back!!! I doubt you know what that feels like, but would hope you'd TRY to see what I mean, by being a good person and find your own souls purpose in the eyes of those dogs you're so casually laughing at now. Hopefully one day you'll wake up and notice that you've become totally empty too!! No reason for getting up, no people, no children visiting you ever... only a bunch of people slamming doors in your face.

Please vote YES of Prop B!
~ Cassandra Morr

(Report Comment)
connie crewse September 19, 2010 | 11:32 p.m.

Cassie the 'Doggie Stylist'-

I'd like to point out how narrow minded you are like your 'cult' friends, and you just assume that ANYONE that is a dog breeder, MUST give inadequate care to their animals.

You are nothing more than a shampoo/stylist but yet you claim that ALL Missouri Dog Breeders breed brother to sister? WOW! You should have your name put on the Presidential Candidate Ballot, as you HAVE to be the most intuitive person I've come across! WOW! You could save the world maybe?

You know for a fact that you've had more 'hands on' than me or any of the other breeders?....Wow! Again, I'm impressed that you know so much about ALL of us? Where do you find the time with scissors and shampoo in your hands all the time?

Patriotism?....Sorry, you are DEAD wrong with, 'it has NOTHING to do with the topic'. It has EVERYTHING to do with the topic.......it's the 'theme' of the topic. Do you know what 'theme' means? It means the 'underlying message'. The underlying message is that they are taking away our freedoms and rights while our family members are laying down their lives overseas for people like you...Cassie-ScissorHands!

Missouri is the ANIMAL RIGHTS groups' front door to the control of the State's Animal Agriculture. They are using licensed dog breeders as their pawn. They have spent MILLIONS of donated $$ for their TV ads that show outdated images of poor mistreated animals from 8-10yrs ago.

People that are reading these comments, check out some facts about the H$U$, PETA & ASPCA. These groups have instigated AND are funding this Prop B 100%! See for yourselves if this is what you want coming into our state and DICTATING to the many generations of farmers that have fed you for years and years! It's NOT just a dog issue as these groups would have you to believe. Dog breeders are licensed by the Missouri Dept of Agriculture.....so that means that these radical groups CAN and WILL easily attach their own amendments later to adversely affect ALL Missouri Agriculture. Why would the Cattlemans Association help us tremondously if this was ONLY a dog issue? After all, here is an actual quote from the very same group that is backing Prop B:

"My goal is the abolition of all animal agriculture."
-J.P. Goodwin/HSUS

Check out these sites and see for yourselves!

www.animalscam.com
www.activistcash.com
www.consumerfreedom.com
www.aliancefortruth.com
www.humanewatch.org
www.mofed.org
www.petbreederandowners.com
naiaonline.org

VOTE NO on PROP B in November 2010! S
ave your pets, farms AND your CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS!...and of course, Cassie's little Doggie Styling job!...because let's face it, without dog breeders...she's out of a job! Don't let her fool you, she makes money off of the dog breeders....she wont admit it, but she does.

SHOW OUR TROOPS THAT WE CARE! FIGHT FOR THE RIGHTS THEY ARE RISKING THEIR LIVES FOR!!

VOTE NO on PROP B!

(Report Comment)
connie crewse September 20, 2010 | 12:02 a.m.

Oh Cassie, just when I was impressed with you and all of your wisdom......Why would you even question my sleep? You know it all! Why, you already know how I sleep, eat, dress, wear my hair, go shopping....etc. You know it all! Because after all, aren't ALL dog breeders the same?
I sleep VERY well thank you.....Know why? Because I actually work hard everyday and I am with my animals more than just a quick shampoo and style like you are with your little clients. I look at more than their eyes. I can tell when they don't feel good, I can tell when they do! I can tell more about my animals than a know it all animal activist like you!
I've also learned that animals are MUCH better to be around than people like you and your little 'cult' friends. They are way more intelligent than you 'think' you are. They are not judgemental like you and your little 'cult' friends either.

I have repeat customers wanting my puppies! Yes, that's right! I've yet to have any complaints from families with health issues, or inbred issues like you want everyone to believe about us. I'm POSITIVE that other breeders on this site have the same reputation as well. I'm proud of what I've accomplished. People actually look and seek out the purebred dogs so they know what kind of temperament they'll have and size. They know what they want, and they don't want to go the shelters for mutts and mixes that DO have health issues that are not disclosed.

One more point before I go to bed and SLEEP LIKE A BABY! If ALL the licensed dog breeders were guilty of the slanderous comments made by you and your 'cult' friends, how in the world would we EVER produce puppies? Heck, if I didn't water and feed, deworm and vaccinate, and just left them for dead......how then would they ever be strong and healthy enough to produce healthy puppies? They couldn't! Or, let's say they would, the puppies wouldn't never make it! They would die off one by one. I've not lost one of my animals to the elements of Missouri's seasons. If I didn't give them adequate care, they would have not made it through this past winter (which was one of the coldest in a long time) or this unseasonably hot summer that we just had! Mmmmmm, I must have done something right? They all look good, none are thin, sick or wormy. All are happy! All have names.....AND KNOW THEM!....Imagine that? Come visit some of the good facilities......oh, that's right, you couldn't do that because then it would void your previous statements that ALL dog breeders are bad. Stay in your little shampoo/stylist world and judge us all you want. But the bottom line is that we are NOT going away, and we WILL continue on with what we are doing because of the millions of families that still want PUREBRED dogs!

VOTE NO on PROP B!!
Save Cassandra Morr's job as a 'doggie stylist' because without the breeding of dogs....Cassandra is out of a job!

(Report Comment)
Joan McKenna September 20, 2010 | 12:09 a.m.

I am sick of the lies being spread by people against Proposition B. Don’t be fooled, and don’t buy into the fear-mongering and propaganda.

They are trying to distract people from the real issue. This has NOTHING to do with cattle or farms. It’s about basic care standards for DOGS ONLY. Read the act at http://www.yesonpropb.com/about/read-act... . I will vote YES on Prop B.

I am tired of my tax dollars funding inspections that can do nothing about bad facilities that repeatedly mistreat their dogs. For example: http://www.fox2now.com/news/ktvi-fox-fil...

Why should we keep paying for the dogs to suffer and for the repeat offenders to keep making money off us, the unsuspecting consumers? Who shoulders the burden for vet bills because the dogs are overbred and unsocialized? Who has to explain to their kids that their new puppy may die because it is sick or has congenital defects due to poor breeding? Who has to fund the shelters and the raids? That’s right—we, the people. NOT them. We are already shouldering the financial burden for the mess substandard facilities create, and we’re fed up.

We can stop it by passing Prop B, because there will be criminal consequences for violators, instead of written warnings. Missourians are ready to fight for our rights as consumers and our beliefs that these dogs need better care.

This is not about government control (a ridiculous scare tactic). This is a citizens initiative, OUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT. Missourians are speaking out and we are tired of being the puppy mill capital of the country.

To address some of the falsehoods:
@JR Martin (and others) say: “The legitimate, licensed breeders are the ones to suffer why the unlicensed breeders will flourish making the problem even worse than it is.”
FACT: The exact opposite is true. With Prop B, law enforcement WILL be able to effectively act against any substandard facility, unlicensed or licensed. Violations would become a misdemeanor crime. The current laws do not adequately address unlicensed breeders. Prop B does. This act states: “A person is guilty of the crime of puppy mill cruelty when he or she knowingly violates any provision of this section.”

Good breeders aren’t worried, since they already provide or exceed the standards of care in the act.

Leonard Audsley: “If someone wants to raise puppies illegally, they can already do it in hidden areas and back woods.”
Thank you, Mr. Audsley, for bringing up how bad the current laws are and making the strong case for a yes vote on Prop B.

Ruth Keezer: “What Prop B does is limit property rights (maximum of 50 dogs).”
FACT: Wrong. It is 50 BREEDING dogs, not 50 total. It also reads “This section shall not be construed to place any numerical limits on the number of dogs a person may own or control when such dogs are not used for breeding those animals and selling any offspring for use as a pet.”

(Report Comment)
Cassie Morr September 20, 2010 | 12:34 a.m.

Thanks god every day for smart people like Joan!!

QUOTE "Good breeders aren’t worried, since they already provide or exceed the standards of care in the act."

The rest are worried they're going to be in trouble when it's passed!!!!

Vote YES on Prop B!!

(Report Comment)
Kara Crass September 20, 2010 | 2:36 a.m.

To Joan McK just a little fact straightening.

Actually, no tax dollars are spent on the rescues and shelters. On the housing or euthanizing of dogs. They are 501(k) not for profit organizations and receive NO local, state or federal taxes.

It will actually cost Missouri taxpayers 1/2 million dollars a year to enforce this proposition. So if you are tired of your tax dollars going to enforcing these laws, why create more?

And Missourians are speaking out? This proposition has been wrote and pushed by out of state organizations who want to take away our CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS!! So what, now because we are dog breeders, we don't even get the same rights as everyone else. The right to buy and own property, the right to free enterprise?
Of the 1.7 million dollars the vote yes people have raised $1,146,000.00 came from the Humane Society of the United States, $200,000.00 from the ASPCA of New York and $50,000.00 from the Doris Day Animal League. Actually, of the 1.7 million 90% is from out of state donors. Go to the MO ethics commision and see for yourself. They may have gotten their volunteers from MO, but the money is from out of state.

And Kathleen Summers, it is, in fact, NOT LEGAL to keep dogs in small chicken wire stack cages. That is against the law and should be reported. We have size requirements for our dogs and we can not use chicken wire AT ALL. It is NOT LEGAL to leave them outside in the freezing cold. We cannot allow them to be outside when the temperatures are below 50 degrees without adequate housing and bedding. It is NOT LEGAL to have frozen water for our dogs, thought I covered that one before!! And we most definately do have to provide our dogs with regular veterinary care. As a matter of fact, we have to be inspected by our vet yearly!!! Which is more than most people's pets see their vet.
Tell big money to go home. VOTE NO ON PROPOSITION B!!

(Report Comment)
Joan McKenna September 20, 2010 | 4:25 a.m.

VOTE YES ON PROPOSITION B!!!!!!

To Kara Crass: You said "So if you are tired of your tax dollars going to enforcing these laws, why create more?

Wrong! You misunderstood. What I said was: "I am tired of my tax dollars funding inspections that can do nothing about bad facilities that repeatedly mistreat their dogs." WHICH IS WHY WE NEED PROP B's laws that can actually be enforced once and for all. I want action and better laws, not the same funding thrown after weak current laws, and nothing changes.

And you say, "Actually, no tax dollars are spent on the rescues and shelters. On the housing or euthanizing of dogs. They are 501(k) not for profit organizations and receive NO local, state or federal taxes."

So like I said. WHO funds these shelters: WE do. ME AND EVERYONE I KNOW to try to save the animals caught in the mess created by Missouri puppy mills. WE do through our hard work and donations. The puppy millers don't pay for it, that's for sure.

You say: "This proposition has been wrote and pushed by out of state organizations"... Like... the Humane Society of Missouri and The Missouri Alllance for Legislation? They are two of the four coalition members.

You say:"...who want to take away our CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS!!"

Based on our CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS as Missourians, 190,127 CITIZENS in our state exercised their rights to sign this citizens initiative petition.

Your rights aren't being taken away.

In fact, if you want to talk about trying to grab rights away, check out the behavior of a few anti Prop B Missouri legislators in Jeff City this past session. They were trying to sneak in a shameful grab on ALL our Constitutional rights then. I guess that's OK when it suits your agenda.

you say: "Actually, of the 1.7 million 90% is from out of state donors." Link to sources, please?

Why don't you ask some of the Missouri groups who oppose Prop B how much money they've been getting from out of state, then we'll talk.

(Report Comment)
Jason Entermyer September 20, 2010 | 9:39 a.m.

I think Kara Cass' below argument sells the Vote Yes idea:

"Of the 1.7 million dollars the vote yes people have raised $1,146,000.00 came from the Humane Society of the United States, $200,000.00 from the ASPCA of New York and $50,000.00 from the Doris Day Animal League. Actually, of the 1.7 million 90% is from out of state donors."

Frankly, I don't really care that they're from out of state as it's their mission that is undeniably supportive of animal rights. We're not talking far out liberal groups here folks.

If you can't trust these groups, who can you trust? I'm voting yes.

(Report Comment)
Marcus Richmond September 20, 2010 | 9:46 a.m.

Vote No on Prop B. We already have enough government intrusion in our personal lives. We already pay enough taxes. We already have high enough unemployment.

Unfortunately too much legislation is passed without considering the unforseen consequences. Those who do not properly take care of their animals, including some shelters and rescues, will continue to operate under the radar until there is proper enforcement. More legislation means nothing to these sorts.

Will the demand for pets go down as a result of prop B? The answer is no. The demand for pets will be supplied by someone either out of state or overseas who have none of the welfare safeguards of Missouri. Shortages of pets caused by Prop B will only encourage the worst sort of breeders both in Missouri and out of state to increase their production to fill the void. Shortages will increase prices and this demand will be supplied by unlicensed breeder or out of state suppliers.

Additionally you are setting a precident for using legislation to limit all agriculture. Keep it up and eventually we will be as dependent on overseas sources of food as we are dependent on overseas sources of oil.

Finally, what is going to happen to that fifty-first dog that a breeder owns. Do you supporters of Prop B really believe all of these mature dogs are going to be adopted by loving families? If you do then you need to stop sniffing the ink bottle. No the same thing will happen to these dogs that happen to the dogs and cats that PETA rescues. They will be PUT DOWN. Oh what a compassionate option for these animals.

Mike Whitworth "the lawyer" Oh please explain to me again the really complicated language that we poor common folk just can't grasp. Please... the only thing less credible than a lawyer is a politician. The real question is how is prop B going to score a big payday for you and the rest of the animal rights industry. If you want to pass beneficial legislation then pass a law limiting lawyer's fees to $10.00 dollars an hour. Now that is bill worth getting behind.

Joan, if you are aware of inspectors that are not doing their job then quit whining and adding more regulations that will simply be ignored. Instead try doing something worthwhile with your time and provide the proper authorities the names of inspectors, locations and dates of these sham inspections. I suspect you are just parroting what you think instead of what you know. That seems to be what most busy bodies do when they are trying to impose more government limitation on law abiding citizens. Bottomline is that passing another law does nothing. Enforcement does.

(Report Comment)
Marcus Richmond September 20, 2010 | 11:35 a.m.

For Jason who says, "If you can't trust these groups who can you trust?"

I do not trust any organization that will support domestic terrorism and call it civil disobedienc, Wayne Pacelle HSUS in reference to fire bombings and terroristic threats by ALF and ELF. I do not trust any organization that "rescues" pets/animals and then puts these same animals down, PETA. I do not trust any organization that focus their rescue efforts only on purebred dogs with papers and ignores dogs on death row in city pounds, All of the Animal Rights Industry.

I do not trust any organization that is a 501C3 tax exempt charity that claims to provide resources for animal welfare and instead is in violation of the 501C3 tax code by using the propondernce of their charitable contributions for lobbying instead of animal welfare, HSUS. Check it out for yourself. One hundred ninety million dollars in assets and how many animal shelters does HSUS have??? You trust them so check it out and see the answer.
I do not trust any organization that flys off to a natural disaster (Katrina), solicits millions of dollars in contributions, then disappears, HSUS. The Lousiana Attorney General was investigating until New Orleans received a new Animal Control facility courtesy of HSUS. If that is not enough I do not trust any organization that takes in hundreds of dogs from a natural disaster and then does not allow the microchip company representatives to scan these dogs to help locate the owners, HSUS.

The reps were former AVID employees who terminated their association with AVID after HSUS made a deal shortly after their refusal to allow dogs to be scanned. Bad publicity do you think if these types of incidents become common knowledge.

If HSUS was serious about ending "puppy mills" then all they would have to do is approach every single breeder in the state of Missouri and offer to buy their facilities. One hundred and ninety million dollars would cover not only Missouri but Iowa, Oklahoma and Arkansas. The problem is animal welfare is not the true agenda. Power and control of agriculture, pets and any other aspect of animal and human interaction. There is big money to be made in the Animal Rights industry. If you trust the animal rights industry then I have some condos on the moon that I can make you an excellent deal on.

(Report Comment)
Joan McKenna September 20, 2010 | 12:03 p.m.

Marcus Richmond, you said: "Joan, if you are aware of inspectors that are not doing their job then quit whining and adding more regulations that will simply be ignored."

Don't twist my words. Get it right. Nowhere did I say there were inpectors not doing their jobs. YOU said that. I said blame the LAWS as ineffective, not the inspectors. Reread what I said, and don't twist it to suit your argument.

I said: "I am tired of my tax dollars funding inspections that can do nothing about bad facilities that repeatedly mistreat their dogs."

(Report Comment)
Cassie Morr September 20, 2010 | 12:13 p.m.

@ Marcus What you're saying on here has absolutely nothing to do with what's being asked of you, or any breeder, does it? It's completely off topic!!

What's been suggested here IS that your puppy mill dogs not starve, freeze, over heat, be cramped, left untreated or suffer from neglect. This isn't rocket science!!! It's a simple request that you try being a decent human being.

Who cares about who's funding the idea when the only outcome is to protect your living, breathing, commodities so that they can continue paying for your house. It really only benefits you in the end to take care of your animals... not anybody else.

For those of you who aren't decided yet and who need more info, please watch this informative video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFtl1xSOF...

And then vote YES on Prop B!

(Report Comment)
Laura Johnston September 20, 2010 | 12:15 p.m.

Folks,
I've removed a comment or two that was posted by people who weren't following our policy requiring first and last names.

I'll reinstate these comments once I hear back from users about whether they will agree to abide by the policy.

Thanks,
Laura Johnston, news editor
ColumbiaMissourian.com

(Report Comment)
Rene Marberry September 20, 2010 | 2:38 p.m.

There will always be those who do not follow the rules - I cannot believe that there are human beings that are opposed to the humane treatment of animals! To think that some are upset over the fact that they MUST provide food,water, medical treatment for injuries, proper space and a clean bed for the animals that are being BRED over and over again for profit is ridiculous. Scares me to think of the conditions that these animals are forced to endure. YES for Prop B. and about time.... Please be kind to your animals, they do not deserve to be mistreated, neglected and abused. Be accountable for your actions...

(Report Comment)
Bob Carlson September 20, 2010 | 3:21 p.m.

One thing I always look for in debates such as this has proven to be a pretty good barometer, and this time is no exception. The people who oppose the legislation I support CAN'T SPELL to save their lives. Half of the canoe-rental places out there also have a trailer with dogs, cats, or birds sweltering inside in misery. Legitimate breeders should be FOR Prop. B, to shut down the competition. But even the ones that get inspected usually just get a slap on the wrist. We domesticated these animals, so they rely on us, and they deserve a lot better than they're getting. And for the record, I'm not a vegan, or a commie. I'm the scariest thing a Teabagger can think of, a Democrat who votes.

(Report Comment)
Marie Dixon September 20, 2010 | 3:24 p.m.

Reading all these out and out lies from all these Puppy Millers is so sad and disgusting. Admit the truth ...you don't care about the poor breeding dogs that have been bred every cycle over and over again in horrible situations despite the lovely desciptions some of you are claiming exist within your places. The reality is Missouri is the # 1 Puppy Mill State in the country and all you have to do is buy rural land and you can cage the breeding dog in a cage that is 6 inches longer,taller and wider than the dog and most never get let out or feel grass under their feet. This is a disgusting industry that has been running amuck for years under the public radar. It is about time you become alittle more transparent. It has been 28 years since any new laws have been implimented to help dogs suffering in these deplorable conditions. Fear produces Phobias and silly conspiracy theories and to read the above against Prop B it is full of all of them. There is only one agenda with this Proposition. It is to give relief to thousands of dogs suffering in Puppy Mills across our state. Anywhere I travel people are always commenting on what a hillbilly backwards state we are and it is noted for being the worst Puppy MIll and Meth State. I for one am sick of the injustices in our state and would love to get rid of puppy millers altogether. Go Proposition B !!!!!I have read it thoroughly and it is a fabulous Proposition. Vote Yes in November !!!

(Report Comment)
Cody Hobbs September 20, 2010 | 4:03 p.m.

There is nothing more to say other than that u people who support proposition B are out of your minds. They are starting with the dogs and using all these propaganda commercials to tug at your heart strings then after you supporters of proposition B push this through all the HSUS has to come back and do is change the word "dogs" to "livestock." Then what do you plan on eating when the farmers can only own 50 cows or 50 pigs or 50 chickens. Look around people, if you vote yes for proposition B you are a step closer to voting yourselves out of something to eat!!!!

(Report Comment)
Ruth Elledge September 20, 2010 | 4:39 p.m.

Well said Mr. Bob Carlson. That's the same way I ususally guage discussions such as this! Unbelievable to me how those of you in opposition are basing your opinions on what you have conjured up as "might happen" if Prop B passes, that next it will be all agriculture. How about we stick to the current bill? I will definitely be voting YES on PROP B!

(Report Comment)
Cody Hobbs September 20, 2010 | 4:50 p.m.

Ruth you have fallen into HSUS trap. They tell you that one thing has nothing to do with another when actually first thing had everything to do with the other. I am not sure what world you people are living in but, it isn't the one the rest of us are in. HSUS is out to get all animal agriculture and they will not stop until they succeed and people like you are the ones who are going to make that possible for them!!!

(Report Comment)
Ruth Elledge September 20, 2010 | 6:46 p.m.

Take a moment to watch this video, then try to convince me that the puppy millers aren't contributing to the pet overpopulation problem that results in these killings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pii-laerb...

If you have a heart at all, you'll be as sick as I was after seeing this video.

(Report Comment)
Mark Foecking September 20, 2010 | 6:48 p.m.

Cody Hobbs wrote:

"Then what do you plan on eating when the farmers can only own 50 cows or 50 pigs or 50 chickens."

People do eat just fine without eating any of those animals. In fact, not eating meat has a very positive environmental effect (not that I don't). That's not a particularly valid argument against this bill.

My objection to the bill is precisely the 50 breeder limit. If a breeder is providing care as required under this bill, why is there a limit? I will vote NO on this bill because of that.

DK

(Report Comment)
Cassie Morr September 20, 2010 | 7:43 p.m.

@ Mark So if you have 50 breeders, with 8-12 puppies in each litter, you're still making around 400 dogs a year with just one breeding!!! How is THAT unreasonable for anybody but the dogs?!

@ Cody Your statements are more than just a little ridiculous, since cattle can't be compared to man's best friend. We don't keep livestock as PETS, residing in our homes and therefor the same rules couldn't ever be applied to them. We also don't eat dog meat (I hope!!) here in the US!! At the moment, you're not sounding like the sharpest tool in the shed!!

The fact remains... if you are already taking care of your animals and giving them the most "basic" care, this won't affect you at all. The only people who truly need to worry about Prop B are those who haven't been.

Proud to see more animal lovers speaking on behalf of the dogs! ***Smiling*** YES LET'S... Vote YES, YES, YES!!

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro September 20, 2010 | 9:42 p.m.

This is the 21st century.
If Missouri doesn't have decent laws on the books by now, which are being enforced as it pertains to breeding puppies for profit, then why would the passing of this proposition make anything better?
And I am very suspicious of the real motivation of those pushing for such a proposition. If the Cattlemen's Association is against passing Prop B, then so am I.
Afterall, their vested interest far exceeds dog world.
("The Missouri Cattlemen's Association is a not-for-profit, grassroots, member-driven organization focused on protection and promotion of the "economic, educational, political, and social interests of the Missouri beef cattle industry.")
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Missouri-C...

(Report Comment)
Bob Carlson September 20, 2010 | 11:17 p.m.

Same people that thought the Natural Streams Act was a commie plot. Same people that think Obama's gonna come take their guns (they only have guns to protect themselves from the jackbooted thugs who are gonna come take their guns...oh, and to rip gophers to shreds with their assault rifles). Don't forget Missouri's the #1 state for bestiality...they might come tell you to leave the sheep and horses alone. You're lessening the value of the breeds.

(Report Comment)
Cassie Morr September 21, 2010 | 6:44 a.m.

Excuse me if I don't understand how the cattlemens association feels threatened at all by a plan to protect dogs!!

There is NO comparison between CATTLE and DOGS!!! It's craziness to associate yourselves "willingly" with a group of people who share no common interest with you, but who carry such a negative reputation for abusing animals. You, as a group, might then become guilty by association.

I'm not a radical. I support Prop B, but also the right to own a gun and to eat meat!! The suggestion we should take larger steps to protect dogs in puppy mills is not a new one, here in Missouri. It's been discussed for years and years, but like most things, it's needed proper funding and now, thanks to a bunch of kindhearted Missouri folks, it might become a law like it is in most every other state, where the incidence of Puppy Mills hasn't gone awry.

I've never seen cattle treated like dogs in a puppy mill! They're insured a decent meal and aren't stacked in cages, peeing on each other, walking on chicken wire and pheces. There's quite a big difference here!

@ Ray The only really reasonable assumption is that you don't belong to the cattlemens association and that any person on here shouting "vote NO on Prop B..." is seriously trying to detract, distract and confuse this issue, by aiming at other larger groups (to earn their vote!) when in truth you're probably just another puppy mill owner who's working a different angle!!

(Report Comment)
Mark Foecking September 21, 2010 | 7:46 a.m.

Cassie Morr wrote:

"@ Mark So if you have 50 breeders, with 8-12 puppies in each litter, you're still making around 400 dogs a year with just one breeding!!!"

Is 400 dogs/year a huge number? I guess it would depend on the facilities and personnel available. I know a lot more dogs than that go through our humane society, and while that is a different facility with a different purpose, it's still not an unmanageable number for them.

I think it all depends on the care they get - that should be the issue here, not how many a particular breeder has. If the breeder is able to provide the recommended level of care for 100 breeders and their offspring, I don't see why we should not let them do that.

DK

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro September 21, 2010 | 10:17 a.m.

@Cassie Morr:
I am an advocate of the humane treatment of pets and service animals and truly believe that IF the HSUS had nonpolitical intentions, they too would be focusing on improved compliance and enforcement of the laws all ready on the books. Instead, I see an effort to create another "feel good" proposition filled with the same kind of hoopla we've seen during the Obama campaign.
The Cattlemen's Association must know something I don't, otherwise why would they be so against the HSUS becoming too strong a lobbying group in Missouri?
("According to an internal government report, many dogs in USDA-licensed commercial breeding facilities are living in horrific conditions, and some are needlessly dying, due to lax government enforcement of the Animal Welfare Act.
The USDA’s Office of Inspector General recently conducted another unfavorable audit of the Animal and Plant Health Inspection Services (APHIS), the unit responsible for enforcing the Animal Welfare Act by inspecting and licensing commercial dog breeders and brokers.")
http://www.maal.org/Puppy-Mills.asp#USDA...
I also resent the term "Puppy Mill" being used during this discussion as it is indicative of the same tactic and mentality being used by those who use the "teabagger" term for those involved with the tea party movement.
You have accused me of being a "Puppy Mill" owner. Just read through my Missourian profile and you might realize how far off base you are.
Are you a "tree hugging, lefty progressive, Obama-loving liberal"?
Considering that the only topic you have ever commented about on the Missourian has to do with shouting about Prop B, perhaps you're just a paid employee of HSUS pretending to be a concerned citizen?

(Report Comment)
Bob Carlson September 21, 2010 | 10:22 a.m.

Back to the spelling thing again...even though Mr. Whitworth the lawyer is on my side, it's "squalor," not "squaler." This is the usual division in the State Divided, of country folks hating the city boys. When i moved here from California (oh, no, he MUST be a commie) in 1984, it was like stepping back in time 30 years, and not in a good way. When i was a State environmental inspector, i had to write up one of our own state parks because of the poor condition of the horses at the riding concession. The people that ran the operation for the park had a little dog whose fur was so matted, tangled, and overgrown you couldn't tell which end was which. One of the horses had a long eyebrow-hair ingrown into its lower eyelid, which i fixed for it. And the State had a CONTRACT with these people for years, and DIDN'T NOTICE until i came along??? Your kid might have ridden one of those poor neglected nags...did any of the park patrons notice? Take off the blinders, folks, abuse is everywhere and we need to fix it.

(Report Comment)
Cassie Morr September 21, 2010 | 1:11 p.m.

@ Ray... you actually seem like you might be a pretty intelligent and reasonable person, although I STILL consider that an insane amount of dogs to properly care for. You might just be the only one to do it correctly, which is why there should be a limit. Not everybody is equally intelligent. Not everyone has the proper means or hired help to care for 100 breeding dogs, but everyone of them would like to pretend they do. The Humane Society and other animal shelters would much rather not take on the burden of 100's of neglected animals, but someone MUST. They'd rather NOT confiscate animals and are always doing their best to avoid it, by simply suggesting that the conditions they're living in improve. It's just as dreadful to them, trying to figure out where to put all those 100's of dogs once they are forced to shut down a puppy mill. Missouri's shelters (unless combined) just don't have the cage capacity to be able take on the kind of numbers seen in most puppy mills, because along with all those dogs are the abandoned pets and the "accidental" litters. Every time a mill is shut down, they're having to work in groups and hoping random kind people will also offer to foster. It's more a matter of what can be done within reason, if for any reason they're forced to shut down a mill, that 50 breeding dogs be the number, since that doesn't include puppies and the number of dogs could still be well over 200.
@ Mark... This isn't a "political" topic. THIS is a moral and ethical topic. If you'd like to accuse conservatives of being immoral (assuming all Republicans would be in favor your puppy mill) then you are definitely on the wrong side! I'd like to think we're not above our morals!! I'm definitely not! Just to prove I'm correct, the majority of Missourians (including myself, if you haven't guessed it already) are conservative! When the votes come in, this won't be about politics at all, it will be because animal abuse is wrong no matter what side you're on.
And because you are so hung up on the term, which of the words "puppy" or "mill" do you consider derogatory? It's what you do... right? Mass produce puppies. What's the kinder term, so that we can rename it?

(Report Comment)
Marcus Richmond September 21, 2010 | 1:21 p.m.

Joan,

Apparently many people misunderstand your intent as I notice you correcting others as well as me. Again, how can the inspectors be doing their job and yet no results. If this is the case then the problem is a top down problem and as I have stated before another law regulating those who already obey the law will do nothing but harm the innocent. Unfortuantely, it appears that the advocates of this bill do not believe there are any innocent breeders all animal rights advocates believe one dog bred one time is too much and anyone who excersise this freedom of choice is a puppy mill. If that is what the activists believe then I believe anyone who is an animal rights activists is also either a domestic terrorists or supports domestic terrorism. So it is puppy millers against domestic terrorists. Sounds fair to me.
By the way for all of you people who are referring to me as a puppy miller. I do not breed dogs, I own three strays and all three have been either spayed or neutered. So save the hypocracy.

(Report Comment)
Cassie Morr September 21, 2010 | 1:32 p.m.

Oops! I meant to put MARK at the top! Definitely not Ray! Where's the edit button?

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro September 21, 2010 | 1:41 p.m.

@Cassie Morr:
Are your blonde roots showing?

(Report Comment)
Aimie Ruth September 21, 2010 | 1:57 p.m.

Okay first off everyone is going on about how soon there will be no meat or pets in the home. No where on this bill does it state this, so in turn it would have to be a whole new bill. So stop acting like this bill will make that happen, cause most the people voting yes on this bill would most certainly vote no on that.
Then you are ranting and raving about animal shelters and rescues being excluded. Gee use your heads you so called breeders expect your dogs to live there entire lives in the enclosures provided. At a shelter or rescue this is temporary housing until a pet is placed in its forever home.
Then on to vets and the pet food industry. You actually believe by puppy mills having to limit their dogs and very possibly go out of business that this will hurt Vet Offices and Dog Food manufacturers? I guarantee that any home that wants a dog will have one with or with out puppy mills. The dog food industry will sell just as much food as they have been minus the bags sold to the Puppy Mills. The only Pet stores that will go out of business are those that primarily sell puppies. Those type of pet stores don't tend to last long anyway as they tend to get shut down and those that don't should be.I cannot tell you how many times a new pet owner who has bought from a pet store comes in with a sick puppy to the Vet Clinic.
There is absolutely no reason for anyone to vote no on this bill. There is no reason for any good breeder to have more than 50 dogs. There is no way that all these dogs are properly monitored. Even if there are a few Breeders of this magnitude that feel they take proper care of their dogs a few is not enough to make up for all. Mast majority of large scale breeder are in fact Puppy Mills, they think because they are licensed they are not. In my opinion anyone who breeds that many dogs and solely relys on them for income is a puppy mill. There is no way that many dogs are receiving consistent and proper care.
I hope this bill does pass and that half these Large scale operations do get shut down. There is absolutely no need for them. And those that stay in business and provide the new accommodations for their dogs good for them. Your dogs will be that much happier and healthier. Those that claim they can not afford must not be making a very good living of them anyway and are currently probably not providing very good care in the first place.
VOTE YES ON PROP B.

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro September 21, 2010 | 2:10 p.m.

Here's another group against Prop B...
(" "ONE OF THE GREATEST
DELUSIONS in the WORLD
is the HOPE that the
EVILS OF THIS WORLD
are to be CURED BY LEGISLATION"
Thomas B. Reed (1886)
MoFed
Mission Statement
"Our goal has always been and shall always be to protect the rights of animal owners and enthusiasts against the devastating effects of the animal rights movement.")
http://www.mofed.org/

(Report Comment)
Ruth Keezer September 21, 2010 | 5:04 p.m.

There is no other state in the union that has used the word puppymill in any legislation. Using that word in this proposition GUARANTEES that Missouri will FOREVER be known as the 'puppymill state'. THe HSUS intentionally included this slanderous, outrageous, derogatory term (that inflames and offends every decent breeder in this state), in order to gain the vote of the uninformed public reacting purely to the buzz-words 'puppymill' & 'cruelty'. This Carpetbagger-funded bill is the beginning of the end for Missouri. NO on Prop B.

(Report Comment)
Cody Hobbs September 21, 2010 | 5:10 p.m.

Amen Amen Amen u tell them Ruth

(Report Comment)
Mary Ann McGregor September 21, 2010 | 7:49 p.m.

Is Missouri Really a Puppy Mill State?

Just a few words here to address a falsehood that is being perpetrated by the HSUS – Humane Society of the United States, and Proposition B,
Which they have sponsored.
Is Missouri Really a Puppy Mill State? That is what they want you to believe. They classify all dog breeders as mills. I was in Springfield, on the night of Sept. 16 where Mr. Pacelle was supposed to be speaking. He did not show up.
One of their representatives was in the parking lot. She walked around taking pictures of the people, and of our license plates. She said it was so that they would know who to go after if any damage was done. When one man tried to talk to her, she said “I don’t talk to goobers.”
Now, these people are coming here from other states, and they want to tell us how we can live, and put their way of life on us.
I want to make a point here. We may have more dog breeders here in Missouri than in some other states, but not because this is a “puppy mill state”. This state is full of hard working people. It takes hard work to take good care of dogs and their offspring – just as in the cattle industry or dairy farmers, raising pigs – it does not matter – it is time consuming and takes work.
Missouri has a more rural life style here – we have caring and nurturing people here – the kind that enjoy raising up sweet baby puppies for good families across our nation. Missouri has more stay at home moms, and if they can raise some puppies for a bit of extra income, there is nothing wrong with that. Missouri residents are not goobers, they are people to be proud of, honest and hard working.
This state is not full of puppy mills. This state has a heritage that goes back many, many generations. We have families who have farmed the same land for many years.
If you go to the coast – you will find your boat builders and all sorts of business that goes with fishing and sailing, etc. If you go to the mountains, you have your ski resorts and cabins, etc. Lakes provide us with fishing but also more boat rentals and water skiing. Georgia is known for peaches. Iowa is known for corn. If we have lots of good dog breeders in our state – we need to be proud of that. We need to say “come to Missouri – and find the right puppy for your home.”
Let’s be proud of our agricultural heritage.
The HSUS has a much bigger agenda than making more laws for dog breeders to adhere to. This Proposition B is not going to change the way your sub-standard kennels do their business – they already are not licensed, and so making more laws will not change anything.
Don’t be fooled by the lies of the HSUS.
If we could legislate morality, child abuse would be a thing of the past.

Mary Ann

(Report Comment)
Ruth Elledge September 21, 2010 | 7:55 p.m.

Ruth, are you certain that no other state has ever used the word Puppymill in legislation? Did you check Iowa and Oklahoma? Missouri has been recognized as the Puppy Mill Capital of the US for as long as I can remember - it's nothing new, and believe me, I can remember a very long time! It's shameful and embarassing to be noted for that, don't you think?

The beginning of the end? The beginning of the end always begins at the beginning, in other words, a long time ago.

And by the way, I've discovered that voting thing above is faulty. :o)

The Other Ruth...and this Ruth will be voting YES on Prob B.

(Report Comment)
Ruth Keezer September 21, 2010 | 8:30 p.m.

Am I sure no other state laws include the word puppymill? Yes, NO other state would be so disgusting, insulting and crass to an entire industry!! What is shameful and embarrassing is that the puppy mill word is being used against legal, licensed, tax-paying dog breeders!
HSUS demonizes ALL kennels that have over 10 breeding dogs in Missouri, because Wayne Pacelle thinks we are stupid enough to believe the lies. After reading the 'vote yes' posts, I think that he may be right. I just hope there are enough sane, rational voters to prevent the destruction of our agricultural industries (that includes responsible dog breeding) in Missouri. VOTE NO ON PROP B. VOTE NO ON PROP B. VOTE NO ON PROP B.

(Report Comment)
Cassie Morr September 21, 2010 | 10:09 p.m.

@ Ruth Keezer... what do YOU call what you do?

You're not working for the betterment of the breed, the love of the dogs or because you're a pet enthusiast? When you're breeding dogs by the 100's for the soul purpose of trying to earn a living, through repetitive breeding, you aren't taking into consideration their health or well being, or their new perspective owners.

There HAS to be some difference between MASS breeders and breeders who are looking to perfect "ONE" breed, by breeding just a couple dogs, insuring their health and selectively choosing their mates. You're not in the same class as those people. They have everyday ordinary jobs as well!

I do believe there's a huge difference.
VOTE YES on Prop B!!!!

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro September 21, 2010 | 11:05 p.m.

("Ruth Keezer September 17, 2010 | 3:08 p.m.
We have 22 pages of USDA regulations about food, water, vet care, housing, pen sizes, temperature requirements, ventilation, storage of bedding & supplies, sanitation, transportation, etc. Everything legal, licenced dog breeders do is regulated already!

What Prop B does is limit property rights (maximum of 50 dogs, no matter how many members of the family or hired assistants are avaiilable to take care of the dogs), dictate total elimation of kennel designs that are healthier and cleaner (demands dogs all reside on solid surfaces at ground level (concrete, not grass)...where they will be easy prey to the ticks, fleas, and other critters that suck their blood or bite them), plus labels ALL breeders that have over 10 dogs 'puppymills', no matter how perfect they are. This is derogatory and insulting to ALL good breeders!

There are other provisions in Prop B that are detrimental, including temperature requirements of 50 to 85 degrees (newborn puppies require a much higher temperature to survive, and most heavily-coated dogs will rebel at the heat).

By the way, Prop B WILL NOT AFFECT THE ILLEGAL, UNLICENSED DOG BREEDERS WHO DO NOT OBEY THE CURRENT REGULATIONS. They will be still evading the law when the legal breeders are gone. Sub-standard breeders no doubt love this proposition! This will eliminate their competition for puppy sales! Do you want your next puppy to come from an illegal kennel?")

Ruth Keezer: Good points all.

(Report Comment)
Mark Foecking September 22, 2010 | 6:21 a.m.

Cassie Morr wrote:

"You might just be the only one to do it correctly, which is why there should be a limit. Not everybody is equally intelligent. Not everyone has the proper means or hired help to care for 100 breeding dogs, but everyone of them would like to pretend they do."

You shouldn't assume that everyone that might oppose this bill is a dog breeder - I'm certainly not. I'm just saying that just because you don't think anyone can cope with more than 50 breeding dogs, that there are not breeders who can. That's really my only big objection to this bill.

The bill sets standards for care (as do current USDA and state regulations), and if these standards are not met, then the breeder has to meet them or shut down. Unlicensed breeders, if they are not discovered, will continue to operate in violation of any standard we accept, and unfortunately pet shop owners and others that buy the dogs may not care enough to wonder why the animals are cheaper than other breeders.

Like I say, to me (not a breeder), the standards in this bill seem reasonable, other than the ownership limit. That's regulating by design rather than performance, and I'd rather let anyone that has shown they can meet the standards have as large an operation as they can handle.

DK

(Report Comment)
Bob Carlson September 22, 2010 | 6:50 a.m.

We have a new ordinance in St. Louis that says any dog tied up in a yard must have at least a ten-foot lead, and have food and fresh water available within reach whenever tied out. I haven't noticed civilization collapsing yet. As to enforcement, unfortunately many inspectors are corrupt, or in the pockets of industry, or related to the people they inspect. That's a serious problem, and we need more inspectors that give a damn about the mission, as I did, instead of people who'd rather look the other way and put their feet up on the desk.

Second, if you can't spell "hypocrisy" you shouldn't use the word. If you want to know the difference between a breeder and a puppy mill, read "Baby" by Jana Kohl. This dog was rescued from a mill in southern California, and had never been out of her cage except to get bred. At her foster home, she jumped off the living room couch, and sustained so many fractures in one of her front legs, due to malnutrition, that it had to be amputated. Jana adopted her, and Baby has become the spokesdog to stop this kind of CRUELTY. If you're not cruel at your facility, vote yes. But taking an animal we bred to be our companion and turning it into a baby factory, and never even letting it walk on grass, messing up its feet from living in a wire-bottomed cage, laying in its own filth, is CRUELTY, which IS a dirty word, and people should stop doing it. I eat meat. I used to own a gun. I'm not an extremist, and I'm FAR from uninformed. That's why I vote pro-environment, pro-social justice, and pro-animal protection. There's a pretty clear line in the sand about how to behave, to each other, to critters, to the planet. Those of you property-rights types who think everything's a plot to take over the State are the ones that need to be checked for rabies. Have a nice day.

(Report Comment)
Ruth Elledge September 22, 2010 | 7:08 a.m.

Excellent post, Mr. Carlson. If only everyone was as intelligent and informed as you seem to be.

To quote a friend's description of the victims of puppy mills: "They're in cages their entire lives, bred to be sold because they're nothing but a paycheck."

YES ON PROP B!

(Report Comment)
Cassie Morr September 22, 2010 | 8:02 a.m.

@ Mark ... Just because there are quite a few unlicensed breeders who haven't been caught yet, it doesn't justify our doing away with new laws and regulations. That would be like saying because we know there are a bunch of uninsured drivers, why should any of us still have to pay for car insurance? Just because some laws are broken and we're made aware of it, it doesn't negate there importance.

Like Bob said, it's a sad fact that some people just don't do their jobs. That goes for any job. There's always some lazy person who's going to slack off, even when it's something as important as this, but that doesn't make it any less important.

Please everybody, Vote YES on Prop B!!

(Report Comment)
David Tucker September 22, 2010 | 10:53 a.m.

To all the folks that oppose Prop B.:

Missouri is the #1 puppy mill state in the country. Doing nothing only allows this hideous stain on our great state to grow and fester.

Will the restrictions in Prob B. affect some jobs? Sure. So did the abolition of slavery. So did the abolition of child labor.

I've worked puppy mill seizures. I've seen the dogs with mammary tumors that scrape the ground. I've entered kennels with ammonia levels so high that the state wouldn't allow us in without rebreathers.

I've fostered dogs that came out of puppy mills, dogs who have no teeth at age 6 because of poor nutrition and over-breeding, robbing them of thier calcium. I have a yorkie in my house right now that came out of a puppy mill who had a tumor on her lower jaw the size of a gumball.

Anyone who has ever had to shave down a dog to the skin because it's mats are so tight that they are creating sores on the dogs's body will vote YES for this bill. Anyone who has had to look into the cataracts of a 4 year old dog who has spent it's entire life in ammonia levels that have burnt it's retinas will vote YES for this bill. Anyone who has had to care for a dog whose feet were amputated because of the damage of standing on wire for years will vote YES for this bill.

If you vote NO on this bill, then you have a moral obligation to help care for the dogs that come out of the puppy mills.

(Report Comment)
Ruth Elledge September 22, 2010 | 12:16 p.m.

Look what we have now......actual videos of the types of kennel's we have in Missouri. Try to convince me that it's ok for these precious souls to be forced to live like this.

http://network.bestfriends.org/campaigns...

Stop this horrible cancer in our state - Vote YES on Prop B.

(Report Comment)
Ruth Keezer September 22, 2010 | 12:35 p.m.

Cassie Morr September 21, 2010 | 10:09 p.m.
@ Ruth Keezer... what do YOU call what you do?

I call it legal, licensed professional dog breeding, supplying cute, healthy and happy puppies for the appreciative buyer.
I know you think you have to be on some loftier place above us 'lowly' dog breeders who just love what we do and happen to be good at it. My dogs are happy working with me to bring a little enrichment to someone's life by providing them with lifetime companions. Are your dogs happier than mine since they are raising their puppies to 'better the breed' and create that elusive perfect puppy?

Cassie, you said "You're not in the same class as those people. They have everyday ordinary jobs as well!".
I have dedicated many years of my life to my dogs and puppies. I guess the real difference between my resume and the perfect breeder's you describe would be that I am a full-time professional dedicated breeder, while your breeder would be a part-time hobby/amateur breeder. We each have a place in this business. I don't look down on you, and I would appreciate it if you would give me the same respect.

(Report Comment)
gary russell September 22, 2010 | 12:44 p.m.

According to the birds and the bees and based on Wayne Pacelle's directive to spay or neuter every dog doesn't that mean that in one generation they will all die out? VOTE NO TO PROPOSITION B AND GET THIS MAN AND HIS ILK OUT OF OUR STATE!

(Report Comment)
gary russell September 22, 2010 | 12:52 p.m.

Ruth when the HSUS actually does take in a dog they EUTHANIZE IT! Most likely paying for it with the NICKEL they spend out of every $10 that was donated to HELP animals.

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro September 22, 2010 | 1:12 p.m.

CaptBarbosa commenter on the RFT article says it best:
(Excerpts):
So most the people posting here thinks it is ok to:
1. tell your cattle farmer, car dealer, restaurant owner , dog pound etc that they can only have 50 cows, 50 cars or serve 50 customers or keep 50 shelter dogs? that is what you are saying when you are saying a dog breeder can only have 50 dogs

2. require your children, cattle farmer dog shelter to have air condition year round. That is what this rule requires that outdoor dogs must have a/c..really most children in Mo dont have a/c

I guess most people here are prepared for real estate prices to drop, people on welfare to go up, unemployment to rise dramatically because it isnt just these vile evil dog breeders you are adversly effecting,it will be feed dealers, veternarians, restaurant owners, gas station owners..dog breeders bring a lot of dollars to our state,as pet owners come to buy their dogs, they use gas, eat here, stay over night, sight see etc.

I guess in the end you are prepared to bankrupt our state of MO and I assume you are prepared to never own a purebred pet again. That everyone here will be racing to the nearest shelter to adopt the black lab pit mix. I cant wait to see that.
Or you are just thrilled that Mexico will be smuggling not just drugs to our country but puppies they raised under conditions far inhumane than any puppy miller here in Mo ever considered doing

you guys do realize that these care standards(with the exception of the 50 limit and the a/c and maybe 1-2 other things I am forgetting ) are part of our animal laws already?

the limits that prop b is putting on are going to be devastating to agriculture in our state. The AR groups like Humane Society US arent promoting this puppy mill ballot thing because their goal is evil big dog breeders. That is just a step in their goal in ending agriculture and crippling the US
we dont need to worry about radical muslims destroying us, we already have the H$U$ and similar groups to do it

If you've never heard, the founder of PETA has said in the past, she believes in mandatory spay or neuter of humans and that we will die out or should die out. The HSUS agenda, or the future based off of poor research, unethical fundraising, lies, etc-it's only the beginning.

Hope you enjoy your concrete cereal with rain for breakfast, because milk comes from cows, soy comes from farmers who will not be able to support their farms without diversity, and you're not getting coffee either, because they use donkeys and other animals during harvest. If you do not think that this will open doors and eventually livestock production will be affected, you are wrong and it will affect the entire food chain, natural fertilizers, organic soils, conservation lands and water...")
source and more:
http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dailyrf...

(Report Comment)
Mary Ann McGregor September 22, 2010 | 1:42 p.m.

So much judging going on here - based on spelling? Okay, I came here from CA too, and yes, I can spell, and I got a 3.97 avg. graduated Summa Cumme Laude from MSU - wihth 4 children at home, commuting. But, that does not make any better of a person, or someone with more common sense.
I do not like seeing all the judgemental attitudes of the people for Prop B on here.

Propostion B is a prime example of the lack of common sense – as are all of the activities of the HSUS. it is a “multi-million dollar vegetarian-promoting anti-animal agriculture organization”.
In 2007 the last horse processing plant was closed in IL. These plants sent the meat overseas to Europe and Japan. The HSUS launched an attack on this industry and effectively had it shut down, saying their method of slaughter was inhumane. 2008 – they went against the transportation of horses to Mexico and Canada, because they did NOT use the stunning method that is known to be more humane – (Brownfield Network). That was the very method used here in the U.S, and that the HSUS was against at that time. Since we no longer have horse processing plants in the United States, we have 1,000’s of unwanted horses that are now roaming the U.S. In March of ’08, the USA Today reported that U.S. shelters are now saddled with unwanted horses, since animal activists pushed this legislation through.
It was a public driven ballot initiative vote. The voters were non-horse owning people, that had been fed propaganda about slaughter plants. My goodness, it was a much more humane way, better than dying of starvation, lying on the ground for days, weak, sick, with all of their ribs sticking 2 inches above their skin, then spreading disease, and attracting flies and wild animals. Horse processing plants were a totally humane option to end the life of an aging horse.

(Report Comment)
Mary Ann McGregor September 22, 2010 | 1:43 p.m.

Vote no on Propostion B - Con't by above.

Florida knows what the HSUS did to their pig industry with statements like this:
“Pigs Have Feelings Too
Ninety-seven percent of pigs in the United States today are raised in factory farms, where they will never run across sprawling pastures, bask in the sun, breathe fresh air, or do anything else that comes naturally to them. Crowded into warehouses with nothing to do and nowhere to go, they are kept on a steady diet of drugs to keep them alive and make them grow faster, but the drugs cause many of the animals to become crippled under their own bulk. “ (Taken from a PETA website. ) This is total nonsense.

In CA – the HSUS has gone to the non chicken-owning public and made them think that chickens do not like roosting boxes, and need to run free. Okay, guess who is moving out of CA - as if that state can afford to lose any more industry. Yep, the chicken and egg producing farmers are leaving CA as fast as they can.

Now, here in the great state of MO – where Congressman Willard Duncan Vandiver said back in 1899 “ . . . . frothy eloquence neither convinces nor satisfies me. I am from Missouri. You have got to show me.” - here, we are not immune to the activities of the HSUS.

Please do not let this power hungry organization fool you with their lies.

People are being shown pictures of dogs and cats in ill-health and told they are products of puppy mills – and in the same sentence, they imply that all breeders are mills. They want you to send them 19.00 a month to ‘end this abuse’. Do you know how much actually goes to some animal shelter somewhere?, only ½ of 1%. That means for every 19.00 – only .10 goes to actually help provide food or something to an animal shelter, the rest is for their salaries, their ads, their celebrity parties – who like to do the big talk, against whatever issue they are on to now.

We have people to be proud of in our state. People who have common sense and who know how to take care of livestock and animals. This “anti Puppy Mill legislation will not do anything to stop the illegal activities of your non-licensed substandard kennels. They will continue to go about business as usual. This is a deliberate attack on the Dog breeders of Missouri - people you can be proud of – and that bring in a substantial revenue to our state. Do you want to see more unwanted dogs roaming our countryside? Do you want to see dog carcusses laying next to the dead horses?

Please share your common sense with your neighbors, your friends, your family members – let’s boot the HSUS out of Missouri.

Thank you for your time, Mary Ann McGregor – professional dog breeder, and proud of it.

(Report Comment)
Bob Carlson September 22, 2010 | 1:47 p.m.

I just did a word count. "Dog," and "covered dog," in singular or plural, occurs 33 times in the proposed statute. "Animal" or "animals" shows up 10 times, referencing dogs every time, or referencing preexisting protective legislation. "Pet" also shows up ten times, in phrases like PUPPIES "to be kept as pets," or "for use as a pet," tying back into DOGS. "Domesticated animal" shows up in the definition of "pet," again, tying directly back to dogs, and what the puppies are to be used for. It doesn't even cover your Vietnamese potbellied pig. "Puppy" shows up five times, and "cruel" or "cruelty" four times, so that's hardly singling out and demonizing legit breeders. And the temperature range isn't 50-85°F, it's 45-85°F. Learn to read, learn to spell, learn to count,stop being so paranoid, have a drink with me so you can spit in my eye, and i can kick your hindquarters out thru your empty hat, and VOTE YES. Nobody needs a dictionary to interpret a happy "woof." I once knew an otherwise cool guy who lived in a trailer out in God's country, and though he got the minimum shots for his dog, had never put it on heartworm medication, which is a cruel killer, and so easy and cheap to avoid. Put your heart where your mouth is.

(Report Comment)
Mark Foecking September 22, 2010 | 2:00 p.m.

David Tucker wrote:

"I've worked puppy mill seizures."

I am sure there are many breeders who keep their animals in very bad conditions, and I am truly sorry that happens. The question I'd have for you is were any of these operations licensed and inspected? If so, about what percentage?

The reason I ask is that no matter how strong we make a law, there will be some that disregard it if there is money to be made (or other motivations). i'd suggest that making a law strong enough to put licensed breeders out of business will increase the percentage of dogs that come from substandard conditions, given a constant demand. In that respect, I'd Prop. B may well fail to do what it is intended to do, and in fact may have the reverse effect.

Sure, there will be some licensed breeders that will comply with any new regulations. But if the demand for bred dogs continues to be high, and especially if this law makes these dogs more expensive, then you're just asking for more unlicensed breeders, who will not care a whit about following these regulations.

"If you vote NO on this bill, then you have a moral obligation to help care for the dogs that come out of the puppy mills."

And the converse may hold true also. If you vote YES, then you have a moral obligation to care for the dogs that licensed breeders may no longer legally own, either from the 50 dog limit or by having to go out of business.

I'm feeling at this point that we should be doing a better job at enforcing existing laws, including more enforcement against unlicensed breeders. Further regulating an already highly regulated industry may not have a net positive effect.

DK

(Report Comment)
Frank Gould September 22, 2010 | 2:05 p.m.

I agree with all of the provisions except that if a facility can adhere to all provisions they should not be limited to a certain number of dogs to keep in that facility.

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro September 22, 2010 | 2:27 p.m.

How many first time Missourian commenters who "chose" to make this subject their premiere outing are actually shills for HSUS?
Raise your hands...

(Report Comment)
Mary Ann McGregor September 22, 2010 | 2:30 p.m.

DK - you are so so right.

This will make the licensed kennels charge higher prices for their puppies - and may have a harder time placing them. This gives added incentive to go the cheap route, go further into the woods - pump out cheap dogs - and you are not accomplishing anything at all with this ballot initiative.
HSUS is fully aware of this too.
They said one thing with the horse legislation, and came back the next year saying something totally different.
This organization is not to be trusted.

(Report Comment)
Bob Carlson September 22, 2010 | 3:31 p.m.

Shills for the HSUS, huh, Ray? You sound like a radio-programmed zombie to me. If there's big money involved, i sure haven't seen any...i'm a volunteer. I've taught classes on how to safely clean up hazardous waste spills for 20 years, but since funding dried up, i've been jobless for the last 2 years. I wonder, Mary Ann, how many of these illegitimate "breeders" out there in "the woods," as you say, won't be affected by Prop. B much at all, since more of their income comes from meth labs (until they blow up, and guys like me have to come in and spend taxpayer money to clean up the residue and body parts). Maybe THAT'S why they're so afraid that the gummint might come calling.

(Report Comment)
lacinda florez September 22, 2010 | 3:34 p.m.

I don't think I should have to pay for trash services in Jefferson City if I do not intend to utilize that service! Isnt that what prop b is??

(Report Comment)
Ruth Keezer September 22, 2010 | 3:35 p.m.

I was at the vet's office today, discussing Prop B. My vet says to prepare to deal with a lot more upper respiratory problems with the 'unfettered access' to the outside world. I had not thought of that, but I do remember having those problems years ago when allowing pregnant or nursing mothers unfettered access to outside (before I learned better). Drafts and chilling from the door opening plus surprise pups being born outside will kill a lot of puppies in the winter (and overheating in the summer). That actually may be part of the plan of the HSUS......birth control or population control. That is an outrageously cruel way for pups to die....by regulation!
Vote NO, NO, NO on prop B. The life you save may be your next best canine friend.

(Report Comment)
Norma Sandler September 22, 2010 | 3:45 p.m.

Emmett said:
It only takes a little common sense to realize that any agricultural related business will only prosper if there animals are treated as well as their children. Anything less is doomed to failure.

That's a really stupid statement, Emmett! Do farmers kill or send their children to slaughter houses? Ever heard of factory farming? The animal products you eat come from them. The suffering the animals go through is unimaginable horror. Then they are killed in the most brutal ways. A great many are skinned and dismembered while still alive because the morons that work in those hell hole slaughter houses don't bother to make sure they are dead first. Factory farms house most of the animals eaten in this country by far so you and those like you can eat pieces of their cadavers. They make a lot of money. The air in those places is so foul it is sickening.The animals are forced to live there regardless. They never see the light of day or touch a blade of grass or see the sky. The amount of excrement produced is poisoning ground water. Downer animals are left to die in pain and misery and nobody cares except for the kind people in animal protection groups that manage to rescue a few of them from the dead piles. Go visit some factory farms and slaughter houses and then tell the truth about it right here. You don't need flesh and dairy products to live. On the contrary, they make you sick. More people die from heart attacks from these products than any other disease. Many cancers are also attributed to these "foods." Think about what you are doing and what you are supporting, and don't forget to go see some puppy mills. They all make a lot of money on suffering and ill treatment of animals. These animals live in wire cages often stacked on top of each other and are forced to produce litter after litter with no protection from the heat or cold with never a bath, a toy or a kind touch. So what if they get sick and die, so what if they never have normal lives or know the love, companioship and protection of good people as long as they keep producing puppies. Right, Emmett?

(Report Comment)
Cassie Morr September 22, 2010 | 3:55 p.m.

@ Ray... We're not all from Columbia, MO. Some of us live in the city, where there aren't any puppy mills! Isn't the internet GRAND!

@ Ruth Keezer... RE: "I know you think you have to be on some loftier place above us 'lowly' dog breeders who just love what we do and happen to be good at it."

So, to pay your mortgage, you put 100's of dogs in cages. They make puppies for you. You sell their puppies. You repeat this process a thousand times over with the same mother dog so you can afford nice clothes and you're proud that's how you make your living? Why on earth, would anyone look down on something like that?

Vote YES on Prop B

(Report Comment)
Bob Carlson September 22, 2010 | 4:19 p.m.

Hmmm, Lucinda, i don't have kids but still pay for schools. i guess that's because i'm a member of society and don't want the next generation to grow up mugging me in dark alleys, but to be educated instead. Keezer, how is your beezer better off breathing ammonia indoors all day than a bit of fresh air once in a while? The more of this stuff i read, the more it becomes obvious that we are making sense, and you people are making excuses.

(Report Comment)
Bob Carlson September 22, 2010 | 4:31 p.m.

"the plan of the HSUS." the PLAN? world government is next? Soylent Green is people, but i only eat vegans, not complete nutjobs. you're safe.

(Report Comment)
Mary Ann McGregor September 22, 2010 | 4:32 p.m.

VOTE NO ON PROPOSITION B - COMMON SENSE SAYS VOTE NO ON B.

Uninformed citizens are prey to animal activists who talk out of both sides of their mouths.

Please do your homework. HSUS is an animal activist group - they are not about caring for animals.

THEY WANT NO ANIMALS.

You can get that feel from Norma's letter. It is better if they never lived than to be in submission to a person.

What kind of world would this be? Not the one that our Father in Heaven created. He gave us animals to take care of, and that is one thing that our agricultural population of Missouri is good at doing.

Most of the HSUS funding comes from outside of Missouri - people who want to spread hate and discontent to a wonderful place to live, we do not want your way of life here.

"America’s confusion about who is responsible for caring for its animals and ensuring their welfare is threatening the very animals in need of help. A recent nationwide poll conducted by Opinion Research Corporation found seven out of 10 Americans incorrectly believe HSUS is some sort of umbrella organization for all of the nation’s humane societies and animal shelters.

Americans are starting to see the difference, though. Charity Navigator, a respected group that rates nonprofit organizations, recently downgraded HSUS’s status from four stars to three, and bumped the rating of the organization’s international arm down to one star.

So, if you really want to make a difference in the lives of animals that need your help, make a donation to a local animal shelter.

If you’re looking for information about how your food is produced and how animals are raised on the farm, find a classmate from an agricultural background and have a conversation.

And if you only remember one thing from this column, let it be this: The Humane Society of the United States is not affiliated with any local humane society or animal shelter." from the Collegiate Times in Ohio

(Report Comment)
Mary Ann McGregor September 22, 2010 | 4:40 p.m.

This is another article about HSUS, this one concerning the 200 million they got to supposedly take care of Mr. Vick's dogs.

"Beginning on July 18 — the day after Vick’s criminal indictment — HSUS promised on its website that financial contributions would help it “care for the dogs seized in the Michael Vick case.” The New York Times later reported that HSUS was not, in fact, caring for the animals. HSUS president Wayne Pacelle told the Times that his group is recommending that government officials “put down” (kill) the dogs rather than adopt them out to suitable homes.

After CCF publicized this deception, HSUS quietly altered its online fundraising pitch. And despite HSUS’s stated desire to see the dogs killed, CNN reports that most of them are being successfully rehabilitated by genuine animal-rescue groups.

“Most Americans can’t stand dogfighting,” said CCF Director of Research David Martosko. “But they also can’t stand phony fundraising claims. If HSUS keeps the money it raised by promising it would care for Michael Vick’s dogs, the group is just as morally compromised as he is.”

The Humane Society of the United States is not affiliated with any local “humane societies.” The organization does not own or operate any hands-on dog or cat shelters in the U.S. Less than 4 percent of its budget in 2007 was passed through to legitimate pet shelters.

“HSUS knows that Americans are dog lovers, and it’s exploiting their emotions to build a war chest for anti-meat, anti-dairy, and anti-medical-research campaigns,” Martosko added. “HSUS should return every cent and apologize for misleading the public.”

Do you see the pattern here?

HSUS was raking it in hand over fist, to "help the homeless animals" from Katrina. Where was that money going? No where. Then the governor started an investigation into what the HSUS did with all the money - guess what happened???
Real quick Pacelle got some kind of animal shelter put together in Louisianna.
No way did he use all that they got from people who thought they were helping the Katrina victims.

Don't be fooled by the lies.

Vote no on Proposition B

(Report Comment)
Bob Carlson September 22, 2010 | 4:41 p.m.

and sorry, Lacinda, it scrolled by too quickly for me to notice the alternate spelling. i, myself, spell "Bob" backwards, but nobody notices.

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro September 22, 2010 | 5:00 p.m.

Bob Carlson says:
("Shills for the HSUS, huh, Ray? You sound like a radio-programmed zombie to me.")
I'm not a radio-programmed zombie, Bob.
But I did stay at a Holiday Inn Select last night.
("SAOVA news
Working to identify and elect supportive legislators. Stay informed on animal issues that affect you and your right to hunt, fish, own and breed animals.
In Missouri, for example, a new organization, The Alliance for Truth, has been formed to educate consumers about the ultimate goals of HSUS. The Alliance members include the American Pet Registry and the Sportsmen and Animal Owners Alliance, along with several state legislators and Rep. Blaine Luetkemeyer (R-Mo.). The group is opposing Prop B, a state ballot measure to regulate dog ownership that is being actively funded by HSUS.")
http://saovanews.blogspot.com/2010_08_01...

Cassie Morr says:
("@ Ray... We're not all from Columbia, MO.")
So is this all you care about in this town? How we vote? And yet you claim that it's not about politics or a bigger agenda?
You outsiders are obviously going to keep me up until this thing goes to vote. Have you no shame?
(Who exactly hands out the assignment list of newspapers for you to hassle us rural folk anyway? Now I'm even more convinced to be against HSUS and this Proposition. Something just doesn't smell kosher with you anti-dog breeders.)

(Report Comment)
David Tucker September 22, 2010 | 5:01 p.m.

CCF = Rick Berman. This is the same guy who says that there is no obesity problem in the US (he gets paid by Coca Cola and Wendys), there is no mercury in fish (he gets paid by Gortmans), and that second hand smoke isn't bad for you (he gets paid by Philip Morris).

HSUS gets a 4 star rating from Charity Navigator (who doesn't get paid by Cargill to spread lies about HSUS so they'll stop documenting the practices that happen in their slaughterhouses) and the BBB (who doesn't get paid by Tyson to stop HSUS' campaign to make chicken ranchers use humane treatment).

I was there in Kaufman, TX when the HSUS hospital truck showed up to help care for the 550 dogs pulled from deplorable conditions at a puppy mill there. This wasn't Wayne Pacelle trying to stop all breeding in the country, it was dedicated individuals working to reduce the abuses of abusive breeders. Taking one or two things out of context and spreading it around like it was the truth isn't going to stop that, and it isn't going to stop Missouri from being the #1 puppy mill state in the country.

Doing nothing is no longer an option, unless you like this state being a haven for these operations.

Visit the dogs who have been rescued from a puppy mill. Smell that smell, look into those cataract filled eyes, feel the scabs from flea dermatitis and mats so tight they tear the skin. Watch them cower away from human contact, human contact that has always meant pain for them.

If you can vote no on this bill after that, then you just aren't human.

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro September 22, 2010 | 5:24 p.m.

@David Tucker:
I just took physical inventory. You're wrong. I'm human.
Let me ask you this:
With 22 pages all ready in place with USDA regulations about food, water, vet care, housing, pen sizes, temperature requirements, ventilation, storage of bedding & supplies, sanitation, transportation, etc. for legal, licenced dog breeders, how is a proposition to incur a Misdemeanor going to prevent any truly heartless person from abusing any dogs?
Show me success stories on law enforcement from laws currently on the books. Then explain why we need more rhetoric on the books and how that's going to help. Just do me a favor and spare me horrific visuals to make me think we need more legislation. All it does is make me barf. (Especially when it comes from HSUS and PETA.)

Now go check your talking points and get back to me with a response, per your national dialogue sheet of course.

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro September 22, 2010 | 5:31 p.m.

@David Tucker:
Oops. I was wrong. I ain't human...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jkz1i1CNU...

(Report Comment)
Mary Ann McGregor September 22, 2010 | 6:05 p.m.

What gets me is the fact that if the HSUS tries going through legislative channels to change laws in our different states, Guess What??
They get voted down.
Our representatives in Jefferson City are mostly in touch with the needs of the people here, the life style, they know how hard working we are, and they know that making laws to legislate morality is not going to do a thing to tackle any real problem.

The Hsus figured out that Ballot INitiatives are the way to go - they spread out the money, buy some folks in high places - put ads all over and Bingo Bango, they get what they want.

MISSOURI - Let's be smarter than they are.

Don't let the smoke screen act fool you. This bill is aimed at legitimate, wonderful people who are doing a job you don't want stopped.

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro September 22, 2010 | 6:12 p.m.

Cassie Morr says:
("@ Ray...Isn't the internet GRAND!")

("The HSUS annual report for 2007 showed $120 million in revenue, including $5.4 million just from online donors.

Then there's $112 million in expenses -- most of which appears to have gone to legislation for animal rights bills. The list includes raccoons, mice, wild horses, burros and primates.

The center for consumer freedom says all worthy causes, but HSUS shouldn't mislead to get money.

So where does all the money go?

“It goes to lobbying, it goes to political contributions, it does go to pay huge staff salaries and benefits," said David Marposko with Center for Consumer Freedom.")
http://petpac.net/news/headlines/story_e...

So like what kind of political contributions does HSUS plan on making in Missouri?

(Report Comment)
Bob Carlson September 22, 2010 | 6:30 p.m.

Ray, i live and legally vote in Missouri. so does Cassie. who you callin' outsiders?

(Report Comment)
Bob Carlson September 22, 2010 | 6:43 p.m.

in fact, that "outsiders" comment is dangerously close to the old joke about the people who didn't want their son to marry a virgin, 'cause "if she ain't good enough for her own kin, she ain't good enough for us."

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro September 22, 2010 | 7:19 p.m.

@Bob:

The way I heard it, it was that they didn't want their son to marry a vegan.

Howdy, Missourians.
I still plan on voting No on this doggone proposition.

(Report Comment)
Mark Foecking September 22, 2010 | 7:54 p.m.

David Tucker wrote:

"I was there in Kaufman, TX when the HSUS hospital truck showed up to help care for the 550 dogs pulled from deplorable conditions at a puppy mill there."

Were they legal (licensed and inspected)? Have you been at any other puppy mill seizures?

You're very good at writing heart-wrenching descriptions, but how much of it is really relevant to licensed dog breeding in Missouri?

DK

(Report Comment)
Ruth Keezer September 22, 2010 | 8:11 p.m.

@Cassie RE: So, to pay your mortgage, you put 100's of dogs in cages. They make puppies for you. You sell their puppies. You repeat this process a thousand times over with the same mother dog so you can afford nice clothes and you're proud that's how you make your living? Why on earth, would anyone look down on something like that?

What mortgage? Our home was paid off long ago. I have never HAD to depend on puppy income, because my husband is very well-employed. It's a good thing, because it is very costly to keep my dogs in the style to which they are accustomed. I don't care much about nice clothes; I am a yard-sale jeans and t-shirt kind of gal! I raise dogs because I love it, and yes, I am PROUD TO BE A DOG BREEDER! Are you proud to be an animal rights terrorist? No matter what your passion in life is, it should make you happy. You just don't sound happy at all. In fact, you sound downright miserable and angry. Go kiss your dogs goodnight and give them an extra hug for me!

(Report Comment)
connie crewse September 22, 2010 | 9:17 p.m.

PART ONE:
Hey Fellow Americans, remember Joe 'The Plumber' Wurlzbacher? Well, here his take on HSUS:
"While Americans across the country have entered the political game to save our country, moving that proverbial ball of freedom towards the end zone, we’ve been sacked. Blindsided. We’ve been so focused on legislative elections (and rightly so) that most Americans don’t even know they’ve been hit – and hit hard.

But not by some big, burly monster like voter fraud or corruption. No, we’ve been knocked flat by the ignorance of the conservative electorate and cute little puppies licking our stunned, what-the-heck-just-happened faces.

Well, I’ll tell you what just happened.

It’s called the Humane Society of the United States cowardly hiding behind animal cruelty, lying to our citizens and taking our constitutional rights away – one state at a time.

This radical animal rights organization (HSUS), who spends less than 0.5% of its $100M + budget on actually helping animals, is using the referendum process to slowly, systematically eliminate food production in the United States.

In California, HSUS has decimated the egg industry forcing chicken farmers out of business and consumers to buy imported eggs. In Florida, for all intents and purposes, HSUS eliminated the pork industry. (Wondering why pork prices are going sky high?) They’ve also crippled numerous other agribusinesses – dragging connected industries down with them.

This November, HSUS is after the dog breeding industry in Missouri calling the bill the “Puppy Cruelty Prevention Act”. Great name. I mean who wouldn’t want to keep someone from being cruel to a puppy? The problem is Missouri already HAS laws protecting animals – all animals. So what’s the real agenda?

Simply to get rid of ALL dog breeding in Missouri – the unlicensed AND licensed breeders. Missouri’s Proposition B makes it a “crime of cruelty” for a piece of dog food to be in a water bowl or for a dog breeder to treat their own pet if they become ill (even with something as simple as a cold). To add insult to injury, HSUS has exempted themselves and shelters from these same laws. Apparently, they’re allowed to be cruel, but no one else is. (No folks, I don’t make this stuff up.)

CON'T

(Report Comment)
Valerie Clavin September 22, 2010 | 9:19 p.m.

http://www.sos.mo.gov/adrules/csr/curren...
Read first, these are the rules already in place. I don't see the need for more rules.

(Report Comment)
connie crewse September 22, 2010 | 9:19 p.m.

PART TWO:

This would almost be comical if it weren’t for the OTHER, more insidious parts of this bill that hit at the very core of our liberties. This bill forces breeders to limit the number of dogs they can own – regardless of care. Think about this a minute . . . . Should the government have the right to limit the number of houses a realtor can sell? Or the number of cattle a rancher can raise?

These new regulations will put almost every breeder in Missouri out of business forcing the price of dogs to sky rocket and allowing pet ownership only for the very wealthy. But this bill is just a stepping stone. HSUS eventually wants to extend this law to ALL animals. Their idea of utopia is a United States with NO animal ownership; NO meat to eat; NO pets; NO hunting; NO fishing; NO service animals. If chicken farmers would be forced to own no more than 50 chickens they could no longer afford to stay in business. The same will hold true with hog farmers and cattle ranchers. Eventually, agri-business will be forced to go over seas, just as our manufacturing and tech industries.

But even the extinction of our food industry isn’t the scariest part of this whacko liberal agenda. A law is only as good as it’s enforced. And HSUS is happy to fill the void. HSUS has now become the self-appointed law enforcement of the animal world. In some states, HSUS employees are running around with guns and police-like badges breaking down doors, confiscating animals and business papers, and obtaining warrants with false information. Lawsuits are cropping up against HSUS, sheriffs and governments for blatant violations of the most basic of constitutional rights.

Enough is enough. We have to draw the line and hold these radical animal rights activists back. The battle this year is in Missouri. If we do not all enlist and soundly defeat this deceptive bill, you can expect your state to be next."

You can view this for youself @
http://biggovernment.com/jwurzelbacher/2...

(Report Comment)
connie crewse September 22, 2010 | 10:31 p.m.

Ray Shapiro says:
"The way I heard it, it was that they didn't want their son to marry a vegan.

Howdy, Missourians.
I still plan on voting No on this doggone proposition."

It tickles me to death that Ray is obvious pointing out FACTS about these groups that EVERYONE needs to know about. And yet, everytime Ray makes a valid point, Bob and the little 'pet stylist' can't stand it. So what do they resort to?......throwing immature comments out about inbreeding, hillbillies and spelling errors. Wow, I'm impressed!
Like I stated in my earlier posts, 'Give them enough rope, and they'll hang themselves!"

We ALL need to contact ALL of our sources, and educate them on this Prop B. I'm sure for the most part, that the good citizens of Missouri WILL see through these Animal Activists and their true, hidden agenda. It's NOT about Dogs....It's about losing our Constitutional Rights!

Way to go Ray! I sure hope you have a HUGE network of friends, as you can get the point across very well!
Keep going!

Vote NO on Prop B
Say NO to PETA & H$U$!!

(Report Comment)
Cassie Morr September 22, 2010 | 10:31 p.m.

@ Ruth Keezer ... it's great we live in a world where you feel have reason to be proud of your so called "job". I'm betting your husband/brother is proud of you too. That might be considered beneath the belt to some, but since you see nothing wrong with breeding dogs brother to sister (tell me I'm wrong?) I'm just assuming it's not taboo, where you come from.

Nobody should NEED to tell you where your conscience is lacking. Sadly though, for some people it's necessary to create laws to act as their conscience. You all can bash HSUS all you'd like and spew venom about the various groups looking to assist these animals, but that doesn't make you appear to be the honest hard workers you'd like to portray your self as. Your OWN contributions to society are no more impressive than the accidents that happen in back yards all across America, the only real difference is your dogs don't even get the luxury of a back yard and you do it by the 100's, intentionally!

I challenge anyone of you, who are so precariously sticking your necks out here, to offer any one of us who aren't yet convinced, you don't run a puppy mill, as seen in videos, a "walk through" of your facility, with a video camera? Licensed "BREEDERS", who have nothing to hide are proud to show off their puppies parents and don't hide behind pet store windows, internet searches or any other guise. They are just as careful in their placement of their puppies to perspective owners. How many of you PROUD BREEDERS care to share your address and all your hard work with the world?
If you can't or won't... point proven!!!

Please vote YES on Prop B if you agree!!!

(Report Comment)
connie crewse September 22, 2010 | 10:35 p.m.

@ CASSIE:

OMG!!
You have done nothing but revealed your hidden identity as an animal activists wanna be, and now you think any of us are STUPID enough to let you come onto our property?

I can't believe you just asked that! We don't HAVE to prove ANYTHING to a 'pet stylist'!

One mis-shaped turd, and Cassie would be on the phone to her buddies @ the H$U$ or PETA!

Hey, I know, why don't I just ask a Vegan to come over to my house this weekend for BBQ HAMBURGERS!!!!

UNBELIEVABLE!

(Report Comment)
Cassie Morr September 22, 2010 | 10:36 p.m.

@ Ray, you are probably one of the most paranoid and make Bob's comment about Meth labs even funnier, with your insisting we must be with some group to want to argue with you on behalf of the dogs. I hate to tell you this "Wait... no I don't...", some people actually just love animals and aren't looking to make an earning from something they actually love. What a crazy notion, huhhh? Some people are actually just NICE, without incentive!!

I'm a pet stylist, as I said in one of my earlier posts. You can even Google search me, if you'd like!! I've been a pet stylist 12 years now and the reason I chose this job and paid $5,000 of my own hard earned money (without the help of a grant) to go to school to be a pet stylist, was and still is, because I LOVE DOGS!! It was at school, I got my very first (dreaded) Puppy Mill introduction and it was a group of twelve rescued Dandie Dinmont Terriers, who... due to skin infections had lost ALL their hair. They were bathed daily by us students for two weeks, because the smell was so horrendous, it was seeping from every pore. We also enlisted them in the "Holistic Bodywork For Animals" massage course several of us took by choice with pet massage therapist, Cindy Vickers. I cried every time I touched one of them, since the only sign of life left in them, was their constant searching for anything that resembled cage walls. Anytime you'd let go of one of them, they'd try to disappear under tables or go for the corners of the room, since there weren't any cages. They hated to be in the center of the room. They didn't want freedom anymore. They were, because of people like you, ruined for any person who would want an animal who might ever be affectionate back. I cried because I knew that no matter how hard we were trying, not many people would ever consider adopting a senior pet who was so mentally scarred. If that makes any one of you PROUD and if you attempt to defend that in some way, you're just as mentally scarred! Dogs are not TOOLS!!!!!!!!!!! They're called "Man's Best Friend" for a reason and so if people happen to get offended by your mistreatment of them to turn a buck, it's because we've taken that expression and them to heart! They, as you know, can't argue for themselves and so that is why I'm here!! Not just HERE, but HERE!!!

Please everybody!! Vote YES on Prop B!!!

(Report Comment)
connie crewse September 22, 2010 | 10:39 p.m.

VOTE NO on PROP B

SAVE CASSIE'S PET STYLIST JOB!

WITHOUT OUR BREEDING FACILITIES...SHE'D BE OUT OF A JOB!!

NO to PETA
NO on PROP B!!

(Report Comment)
Cassie Morr September 22, 2010 | 10:42 p.m.

@ Connie, Thank YOU for making my point for me! One down!

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro September 22, 2010 | 10:55 p.m.

@Cassie Morr:
How do you feel about the people running these businesses?
http://www.puppysites.com/breeder_mo.sht...

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro September 22, 2010 | 11:06 p.m.

TODAY'S QUESTION: What do you think about Proposition B?

The question is what do we think about PETA & HSUS?

("Led by PETA, the Humane Society of the United States, and other activist groups, the animal liberation movement does not seek to improve animals' lives. Its goal is to place unnecessary restrictions on ordinary people like you.")
http://www.animalscam.com/

(Report Comment)
Cassie Morr September 22, 2010 | 11:17 p.m.

Connie Crewse's website for her PUPPY MILL
http://www.triplecpuppiesandkittens.com/...

Extremely disturbing are the number of breeds she has available, along with pics. Here's a link to that as well and you can tell by these faces alone, they're NOT HAPPY puppies!! http://www.triplecpuppiesandkittens.com/...

If nothing else, she'll probably shut down her page, which doesn't have either an address or phone number, mind you, because her business isn't one she'd like YOU (not just me) to see!

Go look at all the cute puppies on her page! She has at least 25 different breeds pictured, who's parents aren't being shown for a reason!!!

(Report Comment)
Mary Ann McGregor September 22, 2010 | 11:18 p.m.

Every one can say all they want to say on both sides of this issue - but if you do the research on the HSUS - you see all across our country that people are getting wise to their tactics.
I would like to be able to post pictures of their nice people pushing in front doors, acting as if they are official agents of the U.S gov't - going to seize the property of Americans - often to be sold right then and there - because "they" say the animals have been abused.
On the scene reporters have stated, there were no sick animals to be found, no abuse to be noticed. Guess what??
The HSUS wanted a fund raiser, and they decided to go and steal someone's property.
This group is not about putting an end to puppy mills. No, they are up to no good, and the more I research, the more I don't like them.

The HSUS has ties to terrorist groups too, no I did not make that up!

Hey Cassie - pet stylists are good people - girl, go and google the HSUS.

Read about Mike Rowe, or whatever his name is - here is a good link. http://www.ffa.org/convention/2009/index...

Any vegans out there?

I think it's great, if that is what you choose, but I am getting the message loud and clear, that you think all of America needs to be just like you.

(Report Comment)
connie crewse September 22, 2010 | 11:36 p.m.

@ Cassie

I'm quite sure that you will not have anyone welcoming your presence. The way you bash ALL the posts on here that are against Prop B. We've made nothing but good, valid points along with providing links to sites that show the track record of these SAME groups and the damaging effects they cause in the States that allowed these radicals to bullie and buy their way into their agriculture!

My facility is positioned right off a highway, for ALL the world to see. I have nothing to hide! However, it will NEVER be grand enough for people like you and the animal activists. Are mine in wire cages? No. Are mine overcrowded? No. Do they see the light of day? Yes. Do they get socialized? Yes. Do I have under 50? Yes. Even my inspector said that it's nice to come here and see all of my dogs happy....never acting frightened or abused and I'm sure he would know the difference!

People that come and buy my puppies are SO happy and tell their family and friends about me, as they were happy to see that my place was VERY NICE! I have REPEAT buyers and word of mouth from the others. NONE have been disappointed! I sold two of my puppies to one of the Cardinals Baseball player, and they was featured in the Pet Players Calender! They were WELL pleased at my facility, and in fact recommended me to someone else, that ended up purchasing one of my puppies!

A GOOD breeder will take the best care of their business as to ensure a profit. We don't run our businesses on sympathy ads and donations. We run our businesses on hard work and we take GREAT pride in it each and every day. The more we work, the better our businesses are. I wouldn't be a successful breeder if I did it poorly.
I'm PROUD to be a PROFESSIONAL dog breeder. The families that e-mail me their pictures of their puppies that they've bought from me over the years, just reiterates to me that what I'm doing is NOT wrong!

The joy dog breeders bring into families lives' surely outweigh all the negative propaganda that is going around nowadays!

VOTE NO on PROP B!!
SAVE THE DOMESTIC PETS IN MISSOURI AND AMERICA!!

(Report Comment)
Cassie Morr September 22, 2010 | 11:44 p.m.

@ Ray... I don't trust any breeders anymore unless I've been in their house and met their dogs. It should be a rule of thumb for any person looking for a pure bred, they meet the parents and see their living conditions first.

My cousin, Karen, breeds Great Danes and she's also a dog trainer. She shows her Great Danes as well and has shown others peoples dogs for them, winning quite a few awards, so I'm not against breeding, done by intelligent people who love animals. She IS!

But for people like Connie who breed...
Border collies
Cockers
Cockapoos
Cavalier King Charles
Labs
Rat Terriers
Chihuahuas
Shihtzus
Puggles
Corgis
Golden Retrievers
French Bulldogs
Schnauzers
Min Pins
Pomeranians
Westies
And CATS TOOOO!!!

Just to name a few! THAT right there ruins all the good Breeders reputations! She's exactly WHY I'm hoping people will vote YES!!!

(Report Comment)
connie crewse September 22, 2010 | 11:45 p.m.

@ Cassie

Again, you are so much like the H$U$ and PETA! The website that you presented, is merely a website for a 'SELECT' group of licensed breeders. We're a CO-OP. What's so wrong with that?

If I thought I had something to hide, I would never have put my first and last name on this site. Hope you like the pictures! And would you look at that? My Chow Chow that is pictured with me, actually LOOKS like a Chow Chow, and looks HEALTHY! Mmmmmmm!

Anyone is free to go on there......again, why would we have it on the Internet if we was hiding?

PROUD TO BE A LICENSED, PROFESSIONAL BREEDER!!!

VOTE NO on PROP B!!
SAY NO to H$U$ & PETA!!

(Report Comment)
connie crewse September 23, 2010 | 12:04 a.m.

@ Cassie

Just for the record, the website will NOT be taken down. So there goes another one of your attempts to persuade people into thinking we're all bad!....sorry to disappoint you Cassie, but we're all here for the long haul!

And again, it's a CO-OP, that means that the breeds you listed are what we have collectively....not all mine.

Sorry to have disappointed you since you thought you was on to something.

You say we're bad breeders because......we have a website? However, you stated earlier to 'Google' you? I'm totally NOT interested in you and your business, so I will not be 'Google'-ing you. But I am to assume that you advertise your business on the Internet and that's okay, but we are 'puppy mills' because we do? Wow! Just a little thing called double standards don't you think? But that is part of the norm when dealing with radicals.

VOTE NO on PROP B!!
SAY NO to PETA & H$U$!

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro September 23, 2010 | 12:23 a.m.

Cassie Morr says:
("@ Ray... I don't trust any breeders anymore unless I've been in their house and met their dogs.")

Cassie: See a counselor. You're still in shock.

@connie crewse: In the late 70's my family bred German shorthaired pointers. Dog lovers make the best handlers. Your pride in what you do is obvious. Cassie, on the other paw, is either in denial or oblivious to greater truths.
Any objective person reading through this thread should be able to figure out that there is an unwelcomed HSUS and PETA agenda behind this proposition. The smart ones will vote No on this proposition and find a better way to enforce abuse.
http://www.shihtzu.org/Info/peta_hsus.as...

(Report Comment)
Cassie Morr September 23, 2010 | 1:00 a.m.

It's your website, Connie. You're making money off of every single puppy on there, but OK, if you say so, someone might actually believe you. It took you a second, with that long winded comment just before to think up a response, realizing what a twit you were for sharing such info.

There's no conspiracy theory here! All on your own, you've proven why voting YES on Prop B is so imperative!!

Those links, you're trying to call "educational fact" you all have shared have nothing to do with why someone like myself would like to shut you down, so there's no sense in even looking. I've donated to several different groups just for this one reason you hate so much! To save Puppy Mill dogs!!!

AND you're the one who's been saying nasty hateful, juvenile things, Connie, not me. I've simply been defending the dogs and if that makes me an animal activist, I'm not at all ashamed for caring!

I don't advertise my work, but if you don't know how to google, that's OK too! I was just trying to prove to RAY (the paranoid one) I'm actually a pet stylist!!
Does that even matter at all?

NO!!

Vote YES on Prop B to save Connie's puppies!!!

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro September 23, 2010 | 1:05 a.m.

("The Missouri Federation of Animal Owners and the American Kennel Club are among the organizations that have been against the puppy mill initiative from the beginning. AKC has said the restrictions on the number of dogs "confuses the real issue of animal welfare, which focuses on the quality of care given to animals, not the number of animals an individual owns ... Cruelty and negligence can occur regardless of the number of dogs a person has."

The Missouri Veterinary Medical Association has also criticized the ballot initiative. MVMA has said it would rather see "adequate funding for more inspections and better enforcement" of current laws than imposing new laws with restrictions on all breeding facilities.")
http://www.examiner.com/dogs-in-kansas-c...
("A Message From The Missouri Veterinary Medical Association: I quote some of what is said in this message from the MVMA concerning Prop B.
"...The ballot being proposed for this November would completely shut down our state’s properly operated, inspected and licensed facilities that have over fifty breeding dogs. We see this proposal as unfair and misguided. These properly and humanely operated facilities are providing families with pets under the guidance of extensive current regulations enforced by state government..."
see #9 from the following:
http://www.mofed.org/Hand-outs-Printable...

(Report Comment)
Bob Carlson September 23, 2010 | 2:17 a.m.

Hey, Cassie, Keezer called you a "terrorist." This website said to refrain from name-calling. I never said hillbilly or inbreeding, that's Connie's assumption...I was responding to us being labeled outsiders. They called me immature, but that's OK, I'm almost 55 and am as grown-up as I'm gonna get. They've repeatedly called both of us vegans, when we have stated more than once that we're not. I've implied that in this era of spell-check, there's no excuse for crappy spelling, but I haven't called anyone a bumpkin...YET. I have never contributed to HSUS or PETA, nor even met anyone from either outfit. Like you, I'm in this campaign as a solo, and individual who just happens to give a damn. For that matter, I've never met YOU, even though we live nearby. But calling you a "terrorist" is hate speech, and Ruth Keezer could be looking at jail time under the Megan Meier law, which isn't just for teen victims. I think we've both been clear, distinct, and fair in making the point that there's a difference between legitimate breeders and puppy mills, but these reactionaries have been brainwashed, apparently. I need to get my pal Kinky Friedman up here to talk sense at 'em. His Utopia Animal Rescue Ranch wouldn't be shut down under Prop. B...hell, they'd probably pin a medal on him.

(Report Comment)
Mary Ann McGregor September 23, 2010 | 4:39 a.m.

Ray - thank you for the link to the American Shih-Tzu site. That was written in 2007, and more has been going on since then.

America wake up - the HSUS is not a good group, and we CANNOT allow them one more inch of territory.

Connie - I love you. And, I know just what you are saying about getting emails and pictures of your puppies from their new families. We are making 2011 calendars using pictures people have sent me with their dogs.
The joy that we get to be a part of, is not something you can find in an 8 to 5 job at a desk.
Being a professional dog breeder is not easy, but it is very rewarding.

(Report Comment)
connie crewse September 23, 2010 | 8:09 a.m.

@ Mary Ann McGregor

I appreciate the kind words, and love you as well. You do en excellent job in getting your point across as well.

We've also done calenders from our co-op in the past, and everyone LOVES them! If you need any ideas, don't hesitate to ask.

Keep up the good work, as most level headed people will see what these groups are truly up to. I've enlightened several people already. What's amazing to me is the amount of people that don't even know who the HSUS is! That is key right there! Once they see for themselves what kind of organization the HSUS is, they'll vote them out. Get the word out!

Thank you Ray and Mary Ann for your hard work and concern, and also getting these links up. It will make a difference!

Off to do work!........LOVE MY JOB!

VOTE NO on PROP B!
SAY NO to PETA & H$U$!

(Report Comment)
lacinda florez September 23, 2010 | 8:14 a.m.

@ Bob spelled backwards, I guess you missed my joke in the comment I made had nothing to do with the artical! I was actually poking fun at the passion in these war of words:) I do understand people being passionate about the issue, somehow I still feel like I am at a family dinner with everyone screaming across the table and no one really listening to what the others have to say! To have a conversation even over the internet I think you need to listen (and part of the is absorbing) as well as speeking your mind!

(Report Comment)
Bob Carlson September 23, 2010 | 10:36 a.m.

@ lacinda; nah, i caught the joke, i was just looking out for land mines and booby traps and LIES; didn't know ya yet, and can't be too careful with these badly-wired androids. They're also LAZY...i have no respect for those who let others do their thinking for them. I'm not insulting their intelligence, because the target's too small even for my excellent marksmanship. They keep railing against these "out of state" groups, as if Missourians are the only real Americans. They keep trying to label me and my "little" friend (who's probably taller than i am) as things we're not. MY half of the dinner table is listening, but you can't have rational discourse with people who keep resorting to prepared quotes that have nothing to do with the latest incarnation of the discussion. If they were legitimate breeders, they shouldn't be so paranoid...i made the distinction pretty clear. I think i made a prescient point with the probable meth-lab connection (grow all the weed you want, but put away the dangerous chemicals). How about this as an addendum to B...if you have a meth lab out back, you're shut down...if you don't, you get to have 51 dogs. Mayberry with crank ain't Mayberry anymore, and Aunt Bea wouldn't be anti-B. And notice i haven't called anyone a goat-roper yet. Call my friends terrorists again, though, and see what happens. I have more arguments with my vegan friends than i do with swamp dwellers, because, like the Kinkster, i like a big hairy steak, but at least the vegans are intelligent conversationalists who give a sh!t.

(Report Comment)
lacinda florez September 23, 2010 | 10:54 a.m.

@ Bob I couldn't agree with you more. I was not directing the not listening comment at you, just the ones who reiterate the same point twenty times as if they say it enough you will just compleatly change your way of thinking. I also was born and raised in Columbia Mo. and think it's crap how so many from this state can be so narrow minded, just PLEASE PLEASE don't think we're all like that because I am a passionate person in my beliefs but know that just because something is right for me does not mean it's right for the next. So Bob foward or backwards ,just ignor the stupidity in some of those comments, I'm sure there are bss aackwark individules everywhere and don't judge the community on a few rotten apples!

(Report Comment)
lacinda florez September 23, 2010 | 11:01 a.m.

And just so all can say they know, just because you may not be from bocomo, in no way means your thoughts count less than those of us born and raised here. Your opinions count regaurdless of the area your from, and when you say such ignorant things you make all us townies look bad. So in the future please keep your stupid thoughtless insults to yourselves! We are all allowed to have our own way of thinking and even speek them but childish insults are unnecessary!

(Report Comment)
Bob Carlson September 23, 2010 | 11:25 a.m.

well said. i moved directly from San Francisco to Cape Girardeau...there was some culture shock! but people forget that all the Okies and Arkies moved to the Central Valley in the Dust Bowl days, and we have Buck Owens and Merle Haggard and the Bakersfield Sound! Columbia, at least, FEELS like a college town, even though i bet a lot of the locals hate "them college kids." Cape, on the other hand, was like a constant war zone, with the city fathers and the university administrators at each other's throats all the time. A town where if you write a bad check, even accidentally, they publish it in the local paper, and tomorrow everyone in town is gossiping about it. I have my problems with St. Louis, but at least there's some anonymity in a big city. And lots of dogs and cats to rescue off the mean streets.

(Report Comment)
Cassie Morr September 23, 2010 | 3:55 p.m.

To help clear the air and because this is something worth sharing!

"He is my other eyes that can see above the clouds; my other ears that hear above the winds. He is the part of me that can reach out into the sea. He has told me a thousand times over that I am his reason for being; by the way he rests against my leg; by the way he thumps his tail at my smallest smile. When I am wrong, he is delighted to forgive. When I am angry, he clowns to make me smile. When I am happy, he is joy unbounded. When I am a fool, he ignores it. When I succeed, he brags. Without him, I am only another man. With him, I am all-powerful. He is loyalty itself. He has taught me the meaning of devotion. With him, I know a secret comfort and a private peace. He has brought me understanding where before I was ignorant. His head on my knee can heal my human hurts. His presence by my side is protection against my fears of dark and unknown things. He has promised to wait for me... whenever... wherever - in case I need him. And I expect I will - as I always have. He is my dog."
- Gene Hill

THAT is how things should be!! Thank you Bob, David, Ruth Elledge and Lacinda, because I can tell you're all good people!

I'm still hopeful lots of Missouri people will vote YES on Prop B Nov 2nd! ***Fingers crossed***

(Report Comment)
marcey miller September 23, 2010 | 4:04 p.m.

The H$U$ doesn't give a crap about the animals it's the almight dollar that has them coming after hard working Missourians an if Prop B passes it's going to be a free for all on anyone who owns an animal. Wayne Parcelle doesn't care about animals welfare or even if they all where extinct and I quote "We have no problem with the extintion of domestic animals"-- Wayne Parcelle. now try an tell me he cares. I will be voting no on Prop B along with my soutwest missouri farmers an dog breeders. They have to be stopped now or they never will be.

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro September 23, 2010 | 5:10 p.m.

If a vote for this Poposition is a vote for H$U$ then based on the Missourian poll results, the H$U$ seems to be losing its grasp on the hearts and wallets of Missourian Poll responders.
I just noticed that with 2,771 votes, 53% of the learned are against the passing of this legislation.
How many voters do we need on this poll to surpass the highest amount of participation in a Missourian poll?
Are we there yet?

("...we have a sheet, from AKC which is a "Legislative Alert." The title of this information sheet is, "AKC Opposes Missouri Initiative Petition."
The Second flyer outlines what a person needs to do to be A Responsible Dog Owner.
The Third sheet tells us that "Ballot Initiatives can impact your right to own and breed dogs" and the
Fourth sheet is entitled, "Where did all the dogs go?"

With these fliers as handouts AKC has shown its support for the dog breeders and owners in the state of MO against the Ballot Initiative, now called Prop B.")
*from item #10 of the following:
http://www.mofed.org/Hand-outs-Printable...

(Report Comment)
Dee Green September 23, 2010 | 9:30 p.m.

Well if some of the people on this thread get their way Missouri will continue to be looked down at as the puppymill capital of the country and people in the rest of the country will think that the only people who live there are ignorant yahoos. The opponents to Prop B only care about their own greed and the money they can make from exploiting animals, they don't give a crap about the welfare of the animals they use and abuse. Of course the AKC is against this bill The AKC makes a lot of money registering puppy mill puppies! Anyone who thinks it is ethical to keep breeding dogs when there are millions being killed every year is a morally bankrupt person. Continue to live in the dark ages Missourians!

(Report Comment)
Lynn Stewart September 23, 2010 | 9:45 p.m.

This bill does nothing to protect the dogs or stop the inhumane treatment. Those people that are doing those things are unlicensed backyard breeders that don't care. A majority of the things that are in the bill are already on the law books, check out RSMO 578.005 sec 1 and 2. Animal care facility law 273.325. The extra added things such as the vet care to treat a scratch, that you wouldn't even take your child the doctor for is absurd. The size requirements to have 50 dogs is way out of line, 150 by 200 ft building for space for tiny dogs, just space for them not the space to build the holding area. That's over a 30,000 square foot building. Come on get reasonable, or at least if breeders are going to be held to those standards then absolutely everyone should be, humane societies, shelters, vets, EVERYONE, even pet owners. It is already a CRIME not to take care of your animals, ref above stated RSMO statue. Substandard kennels need closed, but why put every family well maintained and well care for facility out of business. Their dogs are well care for and are perfectly happy and healthy. I work in law and have seen some deplorable conditions people and children live in. Missouri will suffer and so will tax payers. I don't understand why some people are so mad because others are working hard 24/7 almost to make money, yes it is breeding dogs, but it is no different that a farmer who raises cows, horses, goats, sheep, milk cows, chickens, ect. People love their pets and live longer happier lives with their pets. Prop B is bad for Missouri. Vote NO!

(Report Comment)
Rene Marberry September 23, 2010 | 9:49 p.m.

@Peggy Schmitt
Really? You note all that you have & do for your breeding dogs, yet you still have to "break the ice" for them to get a drink? Do you drink ice water when it's freezing outside? You mentioned chihuahua's, I hope you do not have those tiny dogs out in freezing weather? I had 3 rescue outside dogs for years, they all prefered to live outdoors, we ran electricity to the yard so that they could have water...very easy - it's a horse water bucket!!!! and the insulated dog houses had the appropriate kennel pad heater. Why is it so hard to provide a decent space for the dogs you are making money off of?

(Report Comment)
Dee Green September 23, 2010 | 9:54 p.m.

Yes "People love their pets and live longer happier lives with their pets." That's why everyone should ADOPT pets from shelters not buy them. PUPPIES AREN'T PRODUCTS! Just because someone makes money from selling them doesn't make it right or moral. Find a more ethical way to make a living!

(Report Comment)
Dee Green September 23, 2010 | 10:05 p.m.

Also I don't see millions of "cows, horses, goats, sheep, milk cows, chickens, ect." being killed in shelters because there are too many of them. And most of those "cows, horses, goats, sheep, milk cows, chickens, ect." are living in horrific conditions suffering terribly and those kinds of farmers should go out of business too!

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro September 23, 2010 | 10:19 p.m.

@Dee Green:
What's unethical about licensed, humane, caring, loving people running a business where they tend to providing a desired product/pet/companion/show animal or competitor?
Do you have some kind of view on ethics which prohibits supply and demand and giving people options as to where they shop or get their dog from?
Is it more unethical to be a licensed breeder than a licensed shelter?
I believe that you're just trying to push some kind of morality/guilt complex on the good breeders of Missouri.
Encourage enforcement towards the laws all ready on the books. Why look for an inroad to do away with sources of income and pride in the dog and livestock industry?
Shame on you...

(Report Comment)
Lynn Stewart September 24, 2010 | 12:13 a.m.

Well dee if the puppy are not being bred there would not be dogs will not be in shelters. People like to have purebreds, and one thing that could be done is to educate the public about responsible pet ownership, spay neuter, and once committed, a dog is like a part of the family. and Dee i don't think there is anything anyone could say to change your mind. Licensed caring breeders and animal owners in general have tons on ethics, they love thier animals, family and are good people. I myself spend a very large majority of my money on my animals and I think Missouri needs to enforce the laws in place not make more, the ag ppl are already overwork and underpaid. If you have a problem with a unethical unlicensed kennel turn them into Bark Alert. Shame on you and anyone wanting to destroy the Ag in Mo and the families that love it and take great pride and joy in it.

(Report Comment)
Lynn Stewart September 24, 2010 | 12:25 a.m.

@ rene marberry
what you done for your rescue dogs was great but do you not realize the building requirements for this law? What you provided for your dogs would get you arrested and charged with animal cruelty if you were a breeder, because what you descibed is no where near enough to satisfy the law.
Again I urge ppl to check out some of the laws on the books a google search of the statues should allow you to find them. RSMO 578.005 sec 1 and 2. Animal care facility law 273.325

(Report Comment)
Bob Carlson September 24, 2010 | 1:45 a.m.

Lynn, for the largest dogs, 30 square feet times 50 dogs = 1500 square feet. Add aisle space and a prep/storage area, and that's a lot less than your 30,000 for the smallest dogs. My studio apartment is 400 square feet, so allowing for aisles and storage, i could have maybe ten large dogs in here. It's already cramped with me and my four cats! I've seen people devote a lot more space in custom-built barns for their boat and motorcycle.

I once rescued a dog in Cape, a large shepherd mix, who I found wandering at night. He'd obviously been an outdoor dog, owned by people that think that they're fine outside and don't need any special attention. He hadn't been neutered. All four feet had been badly frostbitten. He sustained puncture wounds on his doggy plumbing from jumping over barbed wire to escape, and couldn't control his pee because it'd just leak out of the punctures. Despite all that, he was the sweetest-tempered guy you could ever ask to meet, and got along great with my cats. But when i was financially able to take him in for a checkup, after a couple of months, it turned out he had heartworms so bad that they had to put him down. And this was a dog from a semi-urban area, supposedly a pet and not a "commodity." I wonder if his human "companions" had kids, and what shape THEY were in.

Too many of you keep saying the unlicensed breeders who keep dogs in inhumane conditions won't get caught. I spent years busting people who dumped hazardous waste and trash in remote areas, and they definitely felt the consequences. Most of the tips we got were from people in the neighborhood. This would be no different, and i imagine most of my pro-B colleagues would happily take low-paying State jobs to be inspectors and shut down the people you say are giving you a bad name. But when it comes time for "honest taxpayers" to fund inspections and enforcement, suddenly the room empties out very quickly.

(Report Comment)
Mark Foecking September 24, 2010 | 6:48 a.m.

Guys, the current laws are sufficient to shut down places like this:

http://www.maconch.com/newsnow/x12905504...

How would Prop B improve or remedy this situation? It wouldn't. No amount of regulation is going to stop someone like the owner of the above dogs from abusing them. Only effecctive enforcement will do that. This is what we should be concentrating our efforts.

DK

(Report Comment)
Cassie Morr September 24, 2010 | 6:49 a.m.

Amen to Dee, Rene and Bob! From the look of things, Arkansas and other known puppy mill states must be voting on here too. These NO votes aren't by ordinary Missouri voters, however and as Ray stated, we're a long ways from Columbia. It's only because of the internet, we are privy to your thoughts and sad way of life.

This awkward discovery of how the "puppy miller" thinks (for me) has been thoroughly disgusting, especially realizing how many of those Puppy Mill owners are women. So much for the mothering and nurturing and compassion most decent women feel towards helpless animals. Yesterday, I had to step away due to a terrible nauseating feeling, but rest assured we'll be getting the word out on Prop B to everyday ordinary voters as well. Not everybody thinks dogs are just TOOLS!!!!

Please, if you have a heart, Vote YES on Prop B!!

(Report Comment)
Ruth Elledge September 24, 2010 | 7:41 a.m.

I usually spend several early morning hours networking on Facebook but it's been down this morning so I chose to read through the comments made here the last couple of days instead. You see, I utilize Facebook to do dog rescue, thanks to the over-population caused by many of you who have been posting here.

I only have a couple things to say because for the most part, with the exception of some humorous comments made by Mr. Carlson, this thread has become nothing more than hate mongering against HSUS and PETA, which by the way, I have never supported nor am I a vegan.

First - I resent being called a terrorist simply because I support the passage of Prop B. Derogatory name calling among educated adults is, in my opinion, inappropriate and out of line and does nothing to enhance the conversation.

Second - the poll being run on this page, as pointed out earlier, is faulty. If you have even a slight bit of computer use knowledge, you would know how it can and is being manipulated. I did it myself, just to be sure.

Third - explain to me why it's ok to continue mass producing puppies while a dog is killed every 1 1/2 seconds in a shelter? I can't imagine an answer other than because of greed. And that DOES NOT make it ok.

Still voting YES on Prop B.........

(Report Comment)
JEFF KARLIE September 24, 2010 | 10:54 a.m.

Ruth
Seriously i have to adopt a pit bull mix because some idiot did not neuter there mix breed dog?
It has to be my commitment for 15 plus years , someone else's mistake ?
So may be my wife and i should not have children and adopt from the orphans of the world ? After all there are many hiv positive children needing homes and babies with disabilities.
Did it occur to you i want a small non shedding puppy that has not been ruined by bad training or a rough start in life .
The President of our country purchased a dog for that reason .
Lastly what do you think will happen to these dogs if the bill passed ? All of them will get homes and live happily ever after ?
NO They will be shot or put down hundreds of thousands of them DEAD DUE TO YOUR THINKING
Regulation is the answer not elimination and penalizing real breeders who operate good inspected kennels.

(Report Comment)
Ruth Elledge September 24, 2010 | 11:39 a.m.

Mr. Karlie, to even think that your preferred breed of dog will no longer be available if Prop B passes is beyond comprehension. No doubt there will still be an abundance of good breeders out there. And just so you know, shelters take in plenty of purebreds every day. Spend some time volunteering at your local shelter and you'll see for yourself.

http://www.aspca.org/news/national/09-24...

Still voting YES on Prob B

(Report Comment)
Ruth Elledge September 24, 2010 | 2:11 p.m.

To Stacy Farley.........you're in the news!

http://blogs.dogtime.com/editors-notepad...

Still voting YES on Prop B!

(Report Comment)
JEFF KARLIE September 24, 2010 | 2:14 p.m.

Ruth
I currently volunteer every Saturday and every other Sunday at the local shelter here .I have now for 3 years and i see the dogs dropped off by people who cannot train their dogs due to lack of knowledge or commitment these dogs, for the most part are not suitable for adoption.
There are no small dogs here, only large mixes and that's the facts. These are limitless pits , shepherd mixes.
Prop B goes after the licensed kennels not the mills ! Imagine with the loss of so many adult dogs how small the gene pool will get ? No matter how good a breeder you are limited to the size of the pool.
Bottom line this is the United States Of America as a citizen i have rights and as long as my dogs are treated with love ad kindness government should stay out of my affairs .
If i break a law we do have recourse's in this country.
What will be next ?
So i can have as many weapons as i want but not pets ?
Why is more money spent on cruelty to animals then children ???
I think the government has better things to worry about.

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro September 24, 2010 | 2:57 p.m.

("Ruth Elledge September 24, 2010 | 2:11 p.m.
To Stacy Farley.........you're in the news!

http://blogs.dogtime.com/editors-notepad......

Still voting YES on Prop B!")

Wow Ruth. If you think a blog is "the news," then you must think that you're a ONE TOPIC, ONE TRICK PONY temporary visiting Junior Missourian Reporter. That would make me a Senior Missourian Journalist, LOL.
http://www.mofed.org/
http://www.columbiamissourian.com/accoun...
http://www.columbiamissourian.com/accoun...

(Report Comment)
connie crewse September 24, 2010 | 2:59 p.m.

H$U$:
Guilty by Association (this pertains to you on here that uphold this ANTI-AMERICAN ORGANIZATION)

Comments made by Agility Ability:
http://www.agilityability.com/hsus.htm

Let's look at some of HSUS' associations:

In April of 2000 HSUS sent J.P. Goodwin as its emissary on an anti-fur mission to China. Goodwin is not just any animal rights zealot, he was an avowed member of Animal Liberation Front (ALF), a group once called one of the biggest domestic terrorist organizations by the FBI. He had been convicted for vandalism of several fur retailers and their property. Less than a year later, he was formerly identified as a HSUS legislative staff member.

If you don't know about ALF you should check them out. They truly scare the heck out of me. They are, in my opinion, every bit as much a threat to people as Al Quiada. I cannot believe HSUS would hire such a person. When asked questions about an arson fire at a slaughter house in Petaluma,
California, and a Utah feed co-op that nearly killed a family, Goodwin stated, "We're ecstatic!

Then, there is the PETA connection ...

HSUS has repeatedly hired PETA employees in their organization. Their head of investigations, several investigators, a computer programmer, just to name a few. Sorry folks, my opinion is, once a terrorist, always a
terrorist. When HSUS hires these people, they appear to support the crimes these individuals may have been involved in.

In 2003, HSUS VP Martin Stephens was asked to recommend three people to serve on an EPA "pollution prevention and toxics" panel. Two of his three choices were PETA employees.

The bottom line is that the FACTS on this ANTI-AMERICAN group are out there for anyone that desires TRUTH. Unfortunately, there will always be the simple minded, that are easily caught up in the Emotional Manipulation of such said groups. These same people that defend the H$U$, are similar to the poor souls that fell for the propaganda that Rev Jim Jones was spoon feeding his cult members. Some people are wise enough to take off the blinders, and other poor souls are not.

If you desire the truth about the H$U$, the information is ALL out there. Reach out and take it. Be smart fellow Missourians...follow truth, and the TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE!

NO to H$U$, PETA
NO on PROP B!!

(Report Comment)
lacinda florez September 24, 2010 | 3:26 p.m.

GGGGGGGGRRRRRRR! Lets take this outside, we can meet outside the dog pound, and whoever is still standing will be the one with the correct oponion!

(Report Comment)
connie crewse September 24, 2010 | 3:47 p.m.

@ Lacinda Florez

Here is the double standards again. The 'yes' people can say and voice all they want about the dog breeders, and that's okay. But when facts are given about the H$U$, PETA & the ALF connections, you start threatening with physical harm? Hmmmm, sounds like the same type of behavior they have. If they don't get their way by the ballot box, then they just resort to physical harm. Real intelligent, real intelligent.

Would you like it now if we all just ASSUMED that because you are threatening us, that is how you deal with your children, pets, spouse (if you're married that is?)?
When they say or do things that you don't approve of, do you roll up your sleeves and start swinging at them?

That is the SAME principle that the 'yes' people on here have. We are ALL horrible people and ALL of our facilities look EXACTLY the SAME! Sorry to disappoint you, but you are wrong again. There are bad cops, teachers, Preachers, etc, but does that mean to you 'yes' people that all of those group(s) are automatically the same and ALL bad?

I can honestly say that it sickens me as well when I see people, whether it be breeder, hoarder, zoo keeper, rescue, or shelter, abuse an animal. But I am not so narrow minded to assume that once I see something, that ALL of those same people that share the same job, are the same. That is the difference with myself and you Lacinda. I can think OUTSIDE the box!

(Report Comment)
lacinda florez September 24, 2010 | 4:01 p.m.

@ Connie Crewse
Honey you have me all wrong I don't care one way or another I'm just making fun of the way you all are acting! Some of these comments are so childish. Like every other issue people already have their minds made up how they are going to vote so why get on here and argue like this are you really changing someones mind?? I'm not threatning physical violence hell I'll be the referee and you can do it in jell-o:) LMAO

(Report Comment)
connie crewse September 24, 2010 | 4:09 p.m.

@ Lacinda

Sounds like a lot of back stepping to me.

(Report Comment)
Deanna Henry September 24, 2010 | 4:51 p.m.

You MUST understand who the people are behind this bill and what their TRUE objective is. An article series on what Missourian will face on the November ballot kicked off with Part 1 about Prop B.
Know and understand who and what these people are. They don't give a damn about puppies. The DO give a damn about power and control.
www.firsttuesdaypress.com

(Report Comment)
Peggy Schmitt September 24, 2010 | 4:57 p.m.

@ Rene Marberry yes in fact we do have two large buildings with 4ft X 6ft inside kennels with solid flooring and they can/do go out to their outside run as well when ever they choose to. So to answer your question NO my Chihuahuas are absolutely not outside unless they choose to go out their doggie doors.

(Report Comment)
lacinda florez September 24, 2010 | 4:59 p.m.

@connie crewse
Sounds like you need a sence of humor! You strike me as one of those anal people who never smiles! Get a sense of humor get aware wake up. All I can say is sucks to be you homes!

(Report Comment)
Cassie Morr September 24, 2010 | 6:12 p.m.

Real quick, before the link I posted with Connie Crewse's puppy mill page has been forgotten, I'd like to say she CHANGED her home page on HER puppy mill website to reflect what she said about it being a Co-Op on here. It did NOT say that originally!!

Before posting it here, I looked at every page on there including the warranty... guaranteeing her puppies lives for 7 days and it said nothing on there about a Co-Op till I posted the link here.

Lacinda, I think you're great! If I get another vote, it'll be cherry flavored Jell-O. LOL ;)

(Report Comment)
connie crewse September 24, 2010 | 7:07 p.m.

@ Cassie

You are still trying to make something out of nothing, just like the H$U$, PETA and all the other animal activists. That is the exact same behavior that they posess. The website has not changed at all, except for more CUTE, ADORABLE, HEALTHY puppies that will go into their new forever homes soon! I stated in an earlier post that I have under 50 dogs, so IF I did have all the breeds that were mentioned, I wouldn't have but one breeding pair? Not real bright Cass. Sorry to inform you, but you again don't know it all about the breeders you try to bash on here. The only thing you know is what you are programmed to say about us. It's all on the Internet as to the 'coaching' of the comments and questions the H$U$ has taught people like you to say and ask. H$U$ & PETA's little puppet is all you are. Again, you DO make money off of dogs, and I'm going to stick my neck out a little, and say that you have made money off of a puppy/adult that originated from a breeder more than once in your career. Again, the similarities of you making money off of us, and the H$U$ making money off of us, it's remarkable! You're not very offensive or scary to me, as I have very thick skin and I'm very comfortable in it.

I'm PROUD to be a professional, Licensed Breeder! Proud to offer families HEALTHY, HAPPY, WELL SOCIALIZED, PUREBRED PUPPIES!

Vote NO on Prop B and save Cassie's income that she earns off of breeders!

(Report Comment)
Rene Marberry September 24, 2010 | 7:23 p.m.

@Ruth Keezer
Are you serious? More respitory problems from getting a draft? REALLY? I do not think it says let your dog have puppies in the woods, for crying out loud..Like respitory problems aren't all over mills - along with fleas, coccidia, giardia and a whole host of other diseases caused from such wretched conditions, Ridiculous how we have to have a law to ensure that breeders provide fresh drinking water, clean food, walking space and veterinary care. I work at a veterinary clinic and you could bet your mill that I would bust you in a heart beat! Karma comes back & gets ya... VOTE YES FOR PROP B!!!

(Report Comment)
Rene Marberry September 24, 2010 | 7:35 p.m.

@Lynn Stewart
My rescue dogs had 1 acre of fenced yard, some in the grass and some in the woods, insulated houses and fresh water, even in the winter. Houses were heated. In the summer they had a gazebo to shade a kiddie pool that was changed daily and when it was very hot, I added ice blocks. They were current on all vaccinations, heartworm preventative, flea & tick preventative, nails clipped every 2 wks - ears cleaned & fur brushed weekly. All were spayed & neutered. Regular walks around the neighborhood. All were trained well and loved unconditionaly. Now, if that would get me arrested, then send me up!
I have read the bill - and I am FOR IT!
YES FOR PROP B!

(Report Comment)
Rene Marberry September 24, 2010 | 7:39 p.m.

Again @ Lynn Stewart
Also - Daily the dog poo was removed.... and there were 3 dogs that lived in that haven....How are yours cared for?

(Report Comment)
Cassie Morr September 24, 2010 | 7:43 p.m.

@ Connie I've never been a hateful person, but if there is an after life, I'm hoping you'll come back as one of your adult breeders, with an owner just like you.

You CHANGED your home page. You not only abuse dogs to make a living, but you're also a terrible liar and if I were your neighbor, you'd be in jail already!

(Report Comment)
Ruth Elledge September 24, 2010 | 7:53 p.m.

Mr. Shapiro and others opposed to Prop B, I try very hard to remain polite during discussions like this but some of you are making that very difficult. I post that one of your group is in the 'news,' albeit a blog, and you make fun of my comment and resort to name calling? Why is it necessary for you to respond in such a mean way?

Every post made here by every person opposed to Prob B has such hateful overtones. This thread of comments stopped being a meaninful discussion days ago.

So as for me and my time, I have dogs to rescue!

Still voting YES on Prob P.

(Report Comment)
Cassie Morr September 24, 2010 | 8:11 p.m.

@ Jeff Karlie

It's your fault any possible adoptive parents who've been looking for a purebred might walk by, when the dogs rescued from puppy mills are petrified of the world, due to lack of socialization and don't readily show affection. YOU are the ones who keep on ruining these dogs lives and their quality of their life, when it's been wasted with you, who doesn't love them at all or care one way or the other if they live or die!!! YOU are the one responsible for their fate!!!

The very best solution for any animal is that they NEVER meet people like you!!!

Vote YES on Prop B

(Report Comment)
carla thomas September 24, 2010 | 9:27 p.m.

breeders are the number one reason why we are seeing so many pure breed dogs in animal shelters,i am on facebook helping to network dogs that are in animal shelters,and some are mixed breed,do you all realize that any dogs that are rescued from breeders wind up in animal shelters,there is a hold period of 3-7 days after that the animal is euthanized because of lack of space in shelters.we need to put breeders out of business once and for all,they are the number one reason why so many dogs are euthanized in shelters everyday!!!!!!!!!!!!! i have been albe to get quite a few dogs saved from shelters then there are days where we cry because we,ve lost some to euthanasia because shelters are so over crowded.

(Report Comment)
carla thomas September 24, 2010 | 9:30 p.m.

go to facebook and see all the purebreed dogs that are in shelters waiting for rescue!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! go to the facebook homepage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro September 24, 2010 | 9:37 p.m.

@Ruth, "Speaker of the Untruth":
Here's your very first sentences from your debut on MY HOME TOWN paper, on a Proposition which I gave little attention to because it initially sounded benign, and YOU call out people as absurd and then you claim that you're a "polite" busy body by trying to embarass an apparent good breeder?
H$U$ and PETA sheeple make me laugh.
YOU and your ilk were the reason why I did some research on this Proposition. You are the reason I discovered how heinous the Proposition, HSUS and PETA truly are. You and people like you are the reason I have discovered the truths behind the Proposition. Thank you for providing me with the opportunity to discover the lies behind Proposition B.
Paw baby, Ruthie. Spare me the "Miss Polite" crocodile tears and tell me another story...
("Ruth Elledge September 19, 2010 | 8:01 p.m.
I am absolutely flabbergasted by some of the absurd comments made above by opponents of Prop B...")
I guess you'd also call the following impolite, false or absurd as well...
http://www.mofed.org/
Do me a favor, Ruth "Speaker of the Untruth"
If you're conversing on MY HOME TOWN NEWSPAPER, get involved with a few other topics in MY HOME TOWN. Otherwise, yes, you are a one topic, one trick pony, newbie, as I'm laughing out loud!
And the only thing that is politically incorrect here is Proposition B, the bill which implies that licensed dog breeders are officially "Puppy Mills," and that HSUS and PETA want to destroy this industry and then pick off a few more.
Everything else IS personal.

(Report Comment)
connie crewse September 24, 2010 | 10:31 p.m.

It is so amazing to me that the 'yes' people on here get so volitile and radical.........oh, did I say 'radical'?
Same as the H$U$ & PETA groups.....RADICALS!

Ruth and Cassie get so upset and totally lose all composure just after a few of the 'no' people make a post.

And Cassie stating that she has never been a hateful person? Wow, really? Cassie has been bashing anyone that is opposing Prop B OR a breeder. I hate to tell you, but being that judgemental never moves any person foreward in life, nor does it persuade anyone when trying to convey a message.

I didn't change my homepage either. Hate to admit it, but computer skills are not my forte. That is why our group hired a webmaster, and he would be the one that would have to change the format. Check me out on the Internet and you'll see that I've been a selling agent for a group of 'select' breeders for SEVERAL years now! Not a big secret.

If you were my neighbor, you would have seen first hand the difference in a GOOD PROFESSIONAL BREEDER vs the 'other'. Thank goodness we'll never know that scenario.

You are too weak of a person that has fallen for all of the lies and propaganda that the H$U$ & PETA has spoon fed you over all this time. Believe what you see on the H$U$ commercials, but while you are blasting away at the good breeders like myself, the H$U$, PETA & ASPCA is laughing all the way to the bank with YOUR money, and is NOT helping the poor animals you are so concerned about. I hope you don't give to them, as that would really be foolish, or anyone else for that matter that is reading these posts. They do NOT give money to help out the 'supposed' overcrowded shelters. They merely line their pockets and pension plans!

What we've tried to convey to you and all the other 'yes' people is that H$U$ is NOT the answer to fix people that are just cruel to other humans and to the animals. We have laws that make it a felony for murder.....ONLY IF YOU GET CAUGHT! These UNCONSTITUTIONAL laws will NOT fix the ones that are breeding in deplorable conditions w/o anyones knowledge! UNLICENSED will continue to abuse and NOT GET CAUGHT! It will only reinforce their activity/business as the demand for their supply will start to climb at an alarming rate because of the good, licensed breeders that will be forced out. You guys simply don't get it! In essence, what you are wanting is MORE animals to be abused w/o anyone's knowledge, that way, you don't have to see it on TV anymore, so you'll feel better? They'll still be out there mistreating more than ever and you will be the ones responsible for it.

(Report Comment)
connie crewse September 24, 2010 | 10:35 p.m.

Con't

Why are the states crying out and frantically warning others to NOT allow these groups to come in and gain control! Because they came in got what they wanted, MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of money, then left, and the problems are STILL there, but now the state is left in a crippled economic mess!

H$U$ and PROP B is NOT the solution folks! The solution is to continue turning in facilities that are sub-standard and operating w/o a license, which puts them under the radar of this whole thing! Are there faults in the system? YES! Are there solutions? YES! But seeking a solution from known ANTI-AMERICAN, ANIMAL ACTIVIST groups will not fix this! Look at the money these groups have COMBINED! They could help out these poor animals that you 'yes' people speak of! Do they? NO!!

Did you know that if you was a shelter and you asked the H$U$ for help, as your facility was not getting enough donations that the H$U$ would help? TO THE TUNE OF $4000-$20,000! Yes, that's right! Depending on the area and need, they will help, but only if you pay them! They offer their 'expertise' and give you management classes on how to generate more donated money! Now that's a group worth supporting! WAKE UP! THEY DO NOT CARE ABOUT THE ANIMALS! You 'yes' people care more than they do, but you'd rather bash us that are doing a good job and actually would LOVE to see the sub-standard places shut down! Why would you or anyone that has been given this information about these AR groups continue to want to support them?

VOTE NO on PROP B and say NO to PETA!

(Report Comment)
tom kelly September 24, 2010 | 10:41 p.m.

This is so nuts. It's not what we vote for anymore, it's trying to find out the truth behind the Proposition we are voting for. This is not right, people. We shoudn't need an attorney to figure out what we are voting for.

Forget the dogs, euthanize me.

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro September 24, 2010 | 11:34 p.m.

Hey, Tom Kelly:
Check yourself into CMHS on Big Bear.
Tell them you're a healthy older dawg.
If you're not adopted in a week or so...you just might get your wish.

Hey, Tom Kelly:
What does CMHS, Mother Theresea and Jack Kevorkian have in common?...
Answer: Youth-in-Asia.

You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.

Read a few articles on H$U$ and PETA and the damage they are doing to animal-related industries and the ability for good breeders and agricultural/livestock businesses to easily understand the implications of Prop B and that voting No is one way to curtail the destruction of an industry.
Then advocate for better enforcement of laws already on the books.
Missouri needs to get rid of this direct PETA and H$U$ influence.
http://www.mofed.org/

(Report Comment)
carla thomas September 25, 2010 | 12:34 a.m.

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=14...

here is my network page for dogs that need to be rescued from shelters before they are euthed most of the dogs right now in shelters are from breeders!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you make me sick!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! right now there are shelters euthing aqt this very moment,some of the dogs we,ve been unable to rescue will be euthed,there have been many days we,ve sat and cried!!!!!!!! shame on all of you breeders!!!!!!!!!!!!!! shame for shame!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro September 25, 2010 | 1:18 a.m.

Carla: I know that your heart is in the right place, and you might not get what I'm about to share with you, but all those dogs you listed on your facebook are being used to raise money and your beloved Wayne from HSUS doesn't kick in five bucks to everyone of those shelters. (Even though he could afford to.) He has a different motive and agenda then you do. I hope you and your companion pet have a good night.

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro September 25, 2010 | 1:22 a.m.

Do you support Proposition B?
Yes
44%
No
56%
Total responses: 2945

(Report Comment)
Cassie Morr September 25, 2010 | 6:48 a.m.

Where the money goes or where the money comes from is of no concern to me. I'm not with any group. These poor dogs, however, have become of great concern.

When 100's of breeding dogs are too old to breed and make you $$$$ (because that's the sole purpose you've given them on this earth) where do all those senior breeders go when you're DONE with them?

For every 100 dogs that get too old to breed and are done away with, another 200 get to replace them and the cycle continues repeating itself, kind of like the worn out statements here regarding HSUS.

As a pet stylist, I've met dogs rescued from a puppy mill and it's because of them, I feel so strongly. There are good "breeders" who love dogs and then there are "Puppy Mill" owners who love nothing but $$$$ and in order to make those dollars, forgo even the most basic in care, arguing they shouldn't have to take their ADULT BREEDING dogs to the vet once a year. Arguing that 50 dogs is too small a number. Arguing they don't need room to stretch or move freely while caged their entire lives.

Good breeders don't breed 50 at a time, because a good breeder doesn't breed for the money, but for the love of dogs!!

The suggestion that this will in any way impact reputable breeders or cause a shortage in supply, is only a bunch of hopeful thinking on the Puppy Millers part. It is aimed exclusively at the people who don't ever use the words "LOVE and DOG" in the same sentence and who continuously turn the topic back to money, even when it isn't their own.

This proposition only affects those who'd call a person "WEAK" for getting teary eyed over a dog. You won't ever catch them doing that!!

The biggest threat Prop B imposes on Puppy Mill owners is that they'd have to spend SOME $$$$$ (MADE, ALL THANKS TO THEIR DOGS) on their dogs!!!

Vote Yes on Prop B

(Report Comment)
Ruth Elledge September 25, 2010 | 6:52 a.m.

Mr. Shapiro, I said some of the comments were absurd. I did not say the people were absurd although making jokes about euthanasia comes very close. And the name calling, in my opinion, is just plain mean spirited and juvenile. In my 61 years, I have never witnessed such disrespect as has been written by many people here, although I am sure you will retort that I am doing the same. I respectfully disagree.

And just for clarification, I don't claim Columbia as 'MY HOMETOWN...' but I do live in central MO (Jefferson City,) so yes, I believe I have as much right to comment here as you do.

Have a wonderful day. :o)

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro September 25, 2010 | 11:44 a.m.

@Ruth Elledge:
You have the right to be a busy-body anywhere you choose. Did you wear out your welcome in Jeff City?

("In my 61 years, I have never witnessed such disrespect as has been written by many people here...")
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmwqnqL3H...

(Report Comment)
Aimie Ruth September 25, 2010 | 12:39 p.m.

Just a quick point to make. People on here arguing about the temperature requirements and unlimited access to the outside and how puppies will die because of this. If I am not mistaken wild animals seem to manage just fine. The puppies mostly rely on their mother for warmth. And most mother dogs would not be taking their young outside in freezing temperatures. Are you afraid they will do this to give themselves a break from puppies? You people need to stop twisting everything that is proposed in this bill. Oh I forgot that is all you can do as you have no other defense.
VOTING YES ON PROP B!!!

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro September 25, 2010 | 1:06 p.m.

@Aimee Ruth:
So like what took you so long to make your second post EVER on the Missourian, BOTH about this HSUS and PETA backed proposition?
And where do you profess your hometown to be?
And what hopes do you have for this industry and the future of agriculture in Missouri?
http://farmersforthefuture.ning.com/foru...

(Report Comment)
Rob Fink September 25, 2010 | 1:11 p.m.

Cassie Morr, in response to my comment that the limit of 50 dogs is effectively putting the commercial breeder out of business, asked what would be a reasonable number, "without any hired help." I see nothing in the act which increases the number that can be owned if there is hired help. (I wouldn't want a hospital to have more than 50 beds if there was no hired help, either, but would not support an act called "nursing home prevention act" which was redundant in most ways and had an additional provision which effectively put them out of business.)
Is there anyone arguing for the bill who does not wish to see the commercial breeders go out of business? The act effectively bans the business, yet the argument is constantly moved to irrelevant points, such as the already regulated areas of nutrition, veterinary care and etc.
Is there anyone here who both wants pet dog breeding to exist as a business and yet favors the act? If not, what honorable reason is there to hide the real agenda?

(Report Comment)
Aimie Ruth September 25, 2010 | 1:27 p.m.

If these breeders for all the past years had properly cared for these animals they claim to love there would be no basis for this act. Fact is that majority of large scale breeders do not care about the dogs themselves if they did there would be no need for any of this. The dogs would have the care they need and deserve already. So no I would not care one bit if these large scale breeder went under, i would actually be glad. What this act allows however is if they can and will clean up their business they can keep it. If not well I won't be shedding tears over it.
I have no issue with private breeders that will have litters a few times a year. These people are selective about what dogs are breed and they treat these dogs as they should be treated. I saw one person on this board make the comment about not being allowed to raise puppies in the house. The good responsible private breeders can, as they do not have 10 or more breeding females. You are not going to tell us that the ones with more than 10 breeding females keep them in the house.
Get real people you should have cleaned up your acts long ago.

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro September 25, 2010 | 3:21 p.m.

@Aimee Ruth:
If you really want to see an abused animal, take a look at the multi-pastel dyed poodle Cassie Morr touts.
Who's looking out for that poor poodle's dignity?
Should we pass legislation to bring back good old fashioned dog groomers and close down this new fangled stylists movement?
And, what's wrong with keeping HSUS and PETA out of Missouri?
They ain't any friend of the farmer or the legitimate dog trade, as far as I can research.

Rob Fink asks:
"Is there anyone here who both wants pet dog breeding to exist as a business and yet favors the act? If not, what honorable reason is there to hide the real agenda?"
Both good questions, Rob.

On a more local level, I have one:
Why is it that everytime there's a speaker at Cafe Berlin it smells like old hippie or in the case of Wayne's HSUS visit, wet dawg?
The whole thing sounds anti-industry to me. I'd think that if HSUS really cared about the dog industry that they'd free up some money to help Missouri pay for enforcement of all the laws that are currently on the books.
To vilify an entire industry with so many good breeders/brokers/agents, etc in the state of Missouri must hide a bigger agenda.
http://www.veterinarypracticenews.com/ve...

(Report Comment)
Mark Foecking September 25, 2010 | 4:50 p.m.

Aimie Ruth wrote:

"I have no issue with private breeders that will have litters a few times a year."

Actually, the bill stipulates that any one bitch may not be bred more than twice in a 18 month period - if you're talking about more than one dog I apologize.

Here's another thought - all dogs are not pets. I've read about the former breeding dogs that just want to get back into their cages - they're uncomfortable being in the center of a room. I'm sorry, but it is quite a "speciesist" judgment to say that this behavior is evidence that they're unhappy, or have been abused.

I've taken in a number of rats and mice from various scientific projects, and these animals are used with people, but they typically don't seek them out. They stay with their own kind, and if they escape from their cages, they try very hard to get back into them. The purpose-bred beagles I've seen are the same way. They're simply used to a certain way of life, and don't aspire beyond that, and they're secure in it. However we view that behavior emotionally, we cannot rationally conclude that they're unhappy with it.

Some breeding dogs are the same way. They're commercial animals, not pets, and we can't expect them to have the same behavioral characteristics as the family dog. That isn't their life, but if they are otherwise treated well (as the rats and mice I've had have been), they're not necessarily unhappy.

DK

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro September 25, 2010 | 5:18 p.m.

@Mark:
Thanks to PETA People, I bet you have to go through some kind of specialized class training to make certain that you legally treat those rats almost as equal as a college student who signs up for a sample study of a new antibiotic.
And as PETA People advance their agenda further, we might not be able to legally move medicine forward as animals for research and testing will become outlawed.
Heck, these PETA People probably object to me for enjoying fishing and eating dogfish and catfish.

(Report Comment)
Bob Carlson September 25, 2010 | 8:39 p.m.

Rob, i've said numerous times that i'm fine with breeders as long as they do things right, but not the ones who do it wrong. What's the problem with that? Nobody ever acknowledges that many of us say the same thing. Also, i was looking at the Missouri Ag site, and they only have TWELVE inspectors for the whole state! And that's for the 3000 licensed facilities as well as responding to complaints about all the illegal ones. Yet there's nothing in the statute about hiring more, and indeed cost analysis shows that it won't cost taxpayers more than existing funding. Frankly, it strikes me that we need more inspectors, don't you agree? Otherwise how will we track down the violators, while recognizing those in compliance?

(Report Comment)
Tess Fox September 25, 2010 | 9:22 p.m.

When I was a little girl my sister and I wrote on our sand pails (flower power, smoke pot and acid is groovy)! We had seen this on TV! It really scared my Mother to think that we would believe everything we heard. She quickly explained to us that not everything we hear that says it’s good is! She told us to ALWAYS look at the WHOLE picture and BOTH sides of the coin on any issue. She also taught us to be FAIR and COMPROMISE! So with an open mind I have been looking at BOTH sides of the issue but now have some valid questions! This bill, prop B, is about (ANIMAL WELFARE) is it not? Isn’t that suppose to be the whole point of the bill?

Issue one: @ Cassi Thank you for the video! After watching the video I notice puppies that were standing in their own excrement on a SOLID surface! So I have to ask. Why in the world would prop B FORCE breeders to raise pups on a SOLID surface? I spoke with VETS and this is what I heard. A wire type flooring, ie. tenderfoot, with wash downs under it is used for SANITATION issues as well as internal and external parasite control. It allows for the passage of fecal material as well as urine and keeps them up off the ground from fleas and ticks. In the winter it would also keep them warmer. Heat rises! Since this appears to be better for the pups overall HEALTH, dry, warm, and away from pests, would this not be better ANIMAL WELFARE for the pups? Why is there NO provision in prop B for the ANIMAL WELFARE for the PUPS that would allow nursing moms and pups to be on a wire type flooring until the pups are weaned? On the same subject of the video those were animal control officers in which was obviously a raid , were they not? And they were confiscating animals, and “RIGHTFULLY” so, were they not? So as per your video CURRENT LAW DOES WORK!!! Is this BILL about ANIMAL WELFARE or NOT?
CONT>

(Report Comment)
Tess Fox September 25, 2010 | 9:26 p.m.

Issue two: Now do I feel there should be a limit? Yes, all should KNOW THEIR personal limit and how many is to many. BUT who has the right to decide who has what limit? Jane Doe bought her property with NO restrictions! Has 100 dogs and her WHOLE FAMILY helps out. They are well taken care off. Fed TWICE a day under current law, prop B requires ONCE a day, and receive excellent ANIMAL WELFARE! She knows HER limit and how much care she can provide as far as ANIMAL WELFARE. Now Joe Blow has a backyard kennel with TEN breeding females that live in filthy conditions! Matted and knee deep in feces! But this bill would NOT apply to him! John Q. Public has HUNDREDS of NON breeding dogs that live in squalor, matted filthy and starving! Did I get the spelling right? Wouldn’t want to be judge for that! Shouldn’t THIER limit be ZERO!!! Doesn’t anyone care about THOSE dogs! Where’s their welfare! So I will ask again is this BILL about ANIMAL WELFARE? Or is it about CONTROL? I am REALLY trying to stay unbiased but am looking over ALL the FACTS!
CONT>

(Report Comment)
Tess Fox September 25, 2010 | 9:30 p.m.

Issue three: Now about the fear mongers stating prop B will have an impact on agriculture as a whole. The Pro B’s say there is nothing to worry about! I went on Ozarks first.com to see BOTH sides of the coin. Well this is what I found. On the HSUS’s site the FIRST thing I notice was they are AGAINST egg production! Scroll down! They are AGAINST dairies, factory farmers ie. CATTLE producers, pork, chicken you name it! I also notice they are AGAINST HUNTING! Hey, that is pretty much second nature to most Missouri boys! After viewing THEIR website, HSUS‘s, I tend agree with the FACTS they appear to be EXTREME activists! So WHY with them backing this bill should the animal agricultural or agriculture as a whole, since many others provide feed, NOT have that fear? Did Norma Sandler’s comment with compelling evidence in it just confirm the TRUE agenda of prop B? I’d say so!

(Report Comment)
Tess Fox September 25, 2010 | 9:33 p.m.

After viewing MANY, many other sites it was brought to my attention that HSUS gives VERY LITTLE of what they receive for actual hands on CARE for the very animals they claim to care about! WHAT ABOUT THOSE FACTS?
Issue four: Now about the bark alert! This was, I thought , a good program that has now been ruined thanks to prop B. Why? Because now no LICENSED breeder who has been urged to turn in any UNLICENSED breeder will trust it! Pro B’s would only use the raid of the UNLICENSED kennel against the LICENSED ones! What were they thinking? As far as prop B enforcing the UNLICENSED breeder, HELLO!!!!, they are not following CURRENT LAWS and that’s a FACT!!!! Do you HONESTLY think prop B will impact them? Come on!!! Now about the backwoods, hillbilly, goat roper comments of the country folks? Not cool!
UPDATE! After reviewing facts and last nights comments I will be voting NO! You pro B’s can give yourselves a pat on the back for that!

(Report Comment)
connie crewse September 25, 2010 | 10:40 p.m.

@ Tess Fox

Wow! I'm impressed with the thinking that was put into your post. I took today to print off material and send out fliers to LOTS of people that are out and about on Saturdays. Guess what? EVERYONE was in shock to learn that this Prop B has been instigated by ANIMAL ACTIVISTS.

I also opened with, "Do you know who the HSUS is?" Not ONE person knew and the majority never even heard of them. Is this the 'sleeping giant'? Rest assured, with fliers in hand, and several quotes by these extremists, the people walked away thanking me for my time, and said that they would spread the news as well. You see, that is how we will get this beat.....WORD OF MOUTH! People don't know H$U$, and they need to...it's LONG OVERDUE!

Tess, you are very wise, and for you to seek out your own answers on who is who, makes me very happy. I'm glad to see you have challenged the comments on here, and have decided to go with NO on Prop B. That seems to be the consensus I got today with visiting people. That is exactly what the people that I contacted today are going to do. They are going to go and seek out the answers on these radicals, and they'll vote NO just like all the others that have common sense!

For all the 'no' people on here, I'm proud to share the same beliefs, and that is to PROTECT our PETS, AGRICULTURE INDUSTRY and MISSOURI! The fliers I passed out today were on www.thealliancefortruth.com they are very visual, informative, and give the racy quotes by these weirdos that Missourians MUST read and know BEFORE Nov 2! The flier is two sided, and will cost more, but heck, I'll spend what I have to to save my pets, job and my fellow farmers that have worked for MANY generations in feeding America and 3rd world countries!!! WE NEED OUR FARMERS, BECAUSE WITHOUT THEM, WE'LL STARVE!

By the way Ray, I appreciate the links you post. I especially liked the last one you put Veterinary Practice News. I use what you put on here to also better educate myself AND others that I come into contact with. Keep up the good work, as we must get the word out any way we can!

NO to PETA & H$U$
VOTE NO on PROP B!!

(Report Comment)
Aimie Ruth September 26, 2010 | 2:47 a.m.

Okay I know I will miss some points I had wanted to make. But first off I am absolutely amazed that Tess Has no idea the harm that grated floors have on the dogs. Especially long term on the adults that have to live years in these confinements. Just like the foster I have now that was rescued from a puppy mill a week and a half ago. the pads on her feet are so deformed from living on a grated surface. She is lucky considering some of these dogs have to have surgery to correct the damage done from these floorings. None of the ailments you mentioned are even a factor if the confinement of the animal is maintained.
I also find it humorous that so many of you claim that soon other industries will be affected and there will be no pets in the homes. I had actually pointed this out about a week ago, but I will do so again. This will have to be another bill and a whole different issue that would need to be voted on. this one affects only the puppy mills and large scale breeders.
Now you say current laws are not enforced and so many go off the radar. This may be true to an extent, yet somehow puppy mill dogs continue to find their ways into rescues. So they must be being enforced to an extent.
I also find it funny how your main course of defense is to use The HSUS and PETA and their ultimate belief as your reason to not pass this. Fact is they are financing this bill, so what the money needs to come from somewhere. Both these organizations especially PETA tend to spend their time fighting for the rights of wild life such as the Polar Bears. HSUS also tends to deal in getting laws passed and helping animals of a whole. It has been no secret that they are completely different from local Humane Societies. So get off it, it is funding.

(Report Comment)
Aimie Ruth September 26, 2010 | 2:48 a.m.

Like it or not I being from Chicago know for a fact that Missouri gets no respect from most of the rest of the country, puppy Mills attributing to this. I find it sad if so many people would believe what a person says handing out fliers, a person if you would with their own agenda. A person trying to save their sick way of life and thinking. Missouri needs outside help to correct this F'ed up state.
Also I would be afraid to take my pets to any of the vets you spoke to Tess, as they do not seem very well rounded on animal well being. As every vet I have both worked for and have taken my pets to, have enclosures with solid flooring.
Also to Mark I was referring to more than one dog, having several litters a year. I believe that a single dog should not be breed more often than every year and a half to two years. Also Mark the behavior you are referring to with dogs retreating to their enclosure does not mean that they are happy it means that is all they know. Its funny in all the Puppy Mill dogs I have both met and Fostered they all eventually hate being locked up. they all crave and want attention, yet at the same time are afraid of it. Are you telling me that a child that has forever been locked in their room and then when finally released and they fear the world. them wanting to retreat back to that room, it means they were actually happy there? No it doesn't it means that is all they know and it takes time for them to actually be able to enjoy life out of that box.
I will be voting yes and have yet to directly meet one person that will not be. thank goodness I have the connections and networking I do. Cause so far that has been well over 200 people. It makes me feel good to know that some are not so narrow minded and understand that these animals have feeling s to and deserve to be treated as such.

(Report Comment)
Cassie Morr September 26, 2010 | 5:27 a.m.

Kudos to you, Ami!!!

As you said, Ray, the funding of this bill has nothing to do with how we vote. I could care less if it were "RAY" who funded it, but I doubt he's ever donated at ALL, so lucky for him he's free of any good deeds to regret later, like he suggests we should do.

The dogs in these puppy mills are pets, no matter what you've done to make them feel unloved and every one of them is different. They all have unique personalities and even if people are evil, dogs are reliably sincere. You picked on my colorful dog, Ray, but my dogs are HAPPY and they're never ever caged. They PLAY and HORSE around daily and as far as I'm concerned, they're my kids!!!

And my kids are noticeably bouncy, unique, characters, NOT TOOLS!!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOg8bOIH9...

Do yours ever get to do this? NO.... they're CONFINED their ENTIRE LIVES to a CAGE!!!

Let's hear what you think about dogs, not your business, but about the dogs and how you feel towards them, or is that too DEEP? Do they they have personalities? Would any of your dogs save your life, do you think and what does that mean to you?

Vote Yes on Prop B if you have a dog guarding your door and you think that deserves some respect!!

(Report Comment)
carla thomas September 26, 2010 | 7:44 a.m.

RAY,
if i don,t help these dogs get out of the shelters they will be euthed!!!!!!!!! right now there are purebreed dogs from puppymills sitting in shelters waiting to be euthanized!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! it is the breeders causing this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i,ve cried many tears because we,ve lost dogs breeders do you sleep good at night knowing that the dogs that were in your puppymills might be euthed or is being euthed at this very moment????????????? some by heartsticking some by gas,in some shelters they take the dogs and shovew them into a container then shove the container into a gas chamber the animals scream until they are dead,they are suffocated until they are dead.some dogs have a needle stuck into their hearts then they just die,they just go limp.then the carcas,s are thrown into a garbage container then taken to a company where they are rendered.does it make you feel good breeders that this is what is happening to many doigs who were in puppy mills,aka breeders!!!!!!!!!!!!!! why don,t you all do what i,m doing networking dogs to save them and have to cry the tears when we find out that some have been euthed!!!!!!!! be in my shoes for awhile.it hurts!!!!!!!!!!

(Report Comment)
carla thomas September 26, 2010 | 7:49 a.m.

i say put breeders out of business once and for all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(Report Comment)
Tess Fox September 26, 2010 | 8:15 a.m.

@ Connie Simply stating what I found and the FACTS.

@ Aimie My point exactly, CURRENT LAW DOES WORK! And again as YOU pointed out, they WILL come back with ANOTHER BILL against ANIMAL AGRICULTURE!!! Thank you for pointing out those FACTS!

@ Bob While we don’t see eye to eye on this issue if the question of the day was about meth I GUARANTEE we would! Which thank you for pointing that issue out! It was, in part, a deciding factor. Why waste our law enforcements time with licensed ALREADY inspected kennels when they have better things to do? This DANGEROUS drug KILLS and DESTROYS families! Educate people about that!

As I believe Lacinda was trying to get across, no point argueing, YOU have your ONE sided view and I am entitled to mine!
Have a GREAT day!

(Report Comment)
Aimie Ruth September 26, 2010 | 12:30 p.m.

Exactly and we all know that a bill to shut down animal agriculture would never pass. So why argue about it now on an unrelated issue. As for the current law working it does for the unlicensed kennels and shutting them down. The current licensed large scale breeder are still out of hand and need to be further regulated. They need to start treating these dogs as living creatures. They may be if you will their product, but this product lives and breaths and feels. They need and deserve to be treated as such.

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro September 26, 2010 | 12:58 p.m.

Do you support Proposition B?
Yes
43%

No
56%
Total responses: 3008

This is an astounding response for a Missourian poll.
There are now more than 3,000 interested, concerned voters, and I agree with 56% of them!
I usually feel sorry for the underdog. And even in this case, I do feel sorry for these poor souls as their hearts might be in the right place. But after doing some research on the truth about Proposition B, H$U$ AND PETA it is clear that those voting for Proposition B choose not to include their brains in their decisions.

Educate yourself people, and then vote, because PETA People are sheeple...
http://www.mofed.org/

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro September 26, 2010 | 1:29 p.m.

Aimie Ruth said:
"...we all know that a bill to shut down animal agriculture would never pass.")

All depends on the language used and how many people are fooled into voting for it.
Even the President of the United States said that proposed bills regarding health care would keep the private health insurance companies intact. My guess is that this is the progressive liberal goal, just as HSUS and PETA have their goals to make private livestock businesses impotent, instead of successful.
What money making agricultural and livestock businesses and industries are H$U$ and PETA supporting anyway? The Chinese Stuffed Animal industry? The Chinese Tofu trade? The Chinese Balloon Animals business?

(Report Comment)
Aimie Ruth September 26, 2010 | 1:30 p.m.

FYI this poll is not an accurate guide as out of state voters and internet manipulation are at play here. The first week it was 90% yes and 10% no with 200 something votes. That is most likely a better judge of how this will all play out.

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro September 26, 2010 | 1:48 p.m.

Aimie Ruth said:
"FYI this poll is not an accurate guide as out of state voters and internet manipulation are at play here. The first week it was 90% yes and 10% no with 200 something votes. That is most likely a better judge of how this will all play out."

I say:
With all the PETA nad HSUS money and manipulators out there, I'm surprised it's not 90% yes and 10% no.
But then again, knowing the integrity and computer savviness of the Missourian staff, I'd say there's some fail safe measures taken on their survey poll and it's a good indication of how the seekers of truth about HSUS and PETA will vote in November.

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro September 26, 2010 | 2:06 p.m.

Aimie Ruth said:
Like it or not I being from Chicago know for a fact that Missouri gets no respect from most of the rest of the country, puppy Mills attributing to this.

I say:
It's lobbying groups like HSUS and PETA which broad brushes one of the last agricultural states, like Missouri, which perpetuates "ill-will" at those states.
You think Chicago Politics is viewed with respect by the rest of the country? What goups perpetuate that image? People who follow and question that which is being reported, that's who. I am certain that once any intelligent person does some research on HSUS and PETA and the full implications of Proposition B, they will conclude that there's a better and more appropriate way to address enforcement of laws ALREADY on the books instead of allowing these anti-animal/anti-agricultural lobbying groups into our legislature.
("H$U$ Watch
Fund-raising on "factory farming", siphoning cash away from real animal issues")
http://www.furcommission.com/resource/pe...

(Report Comment)
Peggy Schmitt September 26, 2010 | 6:17 p.m.

Hey all you HSUS groupies check out this news investigation on your little group of control freaks...

http://www.vidoosh.tv/videos/4360/wsb-tv...

VOTE NO ON PROP. B

(Report Comment)
connie crewse September 26, 2010 | 6:29 p.m.

@ Peggy Schmitt

Great link!!! ALL the states should be reporting like this!

These groups MUST be stopped! They are ruining our country one state at a time and laughing all the way to the bank, while animal abuse still continues!

VOTE NO on PROP B- If you want to SAVE MISSOURI FARMS & BUSINESSES!
VOTE YES on PROP B-IF YOU WANT ANIMAL ABUSE TO CLIMB AT AN ALARMING RATE!

(Report Comment)
Ruth Elledge September 26, 2010 | 6:30 p.m.

I mentioned in previous posts that the poll on this site was invalid. For anyone interested in the "...fail safe measures taken on their survey poll..." follow these directions:

With Internet Explorer, open an InPrivate browsing session. (It's on the Safety menu, top right of your screen.) Then come to this website poll, vote, close the site. Repeat the same process by opening another InPrivate browsing session, etc. You will be able to vote again, and again, and again, and again by repeating this process. I'm sure I am not the only person familiar with InPrivate Browsing, so as noted previously, polls such as this mean nothing.....but I will look forward to Mr. Shapiro's rebuttal! :o)

(Report Comment)
Peggy Schmitt September 26, 2010 | 9:47 p.m.

To all you HSUS supporters check out some of these links people have posted and find out the truth about the HSUS, here is another link that is a News cast video and investigation by TV news channel.

http://www.vidoosh.tv/videos/7056/hsus-i...

There are other News casts on there as well just click on the HSUS Tag below the video.... Take some time out from voicing your mostly un-informed opinions and watch a few of these videos, SHAME ON YOU HSUS AND THEIR SUPPORTERS, give to your LOCAL SHELTERS!!!
Vote NO on Prop B this is not what the animals need, the people who inspect kennel facilities need to enforce the already laws and rules that are in place and that would take care of the facilities like what you see in the news that have been raided those are the UNLICENSED Breeders and myself as a Breeder would like to see those like that shut down as well, because it is discusting,wrong,and they have Labeled the reputable Licensed Breeders as all being bad if you breed animals. You know there is alot of Bad Teachers, Preachers, etc... that do bad things to children, But not all of them are bad because of the ones that do wrong... this same principle applies with us Breeders. Vote NO on Prop B

(Report Comment)
Aimie Ruth September 26, 2010 | 10:10 p.m.

@ Peggy. Hahahahaha. All I can do is laugh at you. Hahaha.

(Report Comment)
lacinda florez September 27, 2010 | 12:17 p.m.

@ Cassie Morr
Way to read past all the B.S.. Especially of Connie Crews. Talk about back tracking! As long as you vote thats all that matters, so get out and and do your thing:)

(Report Comment)
Peggy Schmitt September 27, 2010 | 4:28 p.m.

@ Aimie Ruth Laugh all you want,Heifer! I am not trying to sling crap on here just trying to get the truth out on what the HSUS is really all about $$$$$$.
And actually we are all LAUGHING our butts off at you and others like you for donating and supporting such a corupt organization like HSUS.. hahahahaha at you.

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro September 27, 2010 | 4:39 p.m.

lacinda, Cassie Morr has been breathing in too much fumes from dog fur dye. Her psychedelic poodle looks like it fell into the same vat Jack Nicholson fell into when he became the Joker. If her poodle was able to see herself in the mirror and understood the color pallet, she'd "dye" from fright. Even Cruella De Vil had a better dye job.
And the only B.S. one needs to read is in Proposition B, thanks to the insidious agenda of HSUS and the PETA sheeple.

Ruth Elledge said:
"I mentioned in previous posts that the poll on this site was invalid."

Not invalid. Like any other poll, it has a margin of error.
But let me ask you this, Ruth: If you knew the poll had a voting flaw, did you wait until you placed 1,250 Yes votes before letting folks know about this? At the very least, why wait so long to advertise this flaw? Even those who wrote Proposition B admitted it was written with flaws right after it was approved for voting.
Why even vote YES on a Proposition which the writers now realize has flaws.
Vote No on Prop B. Send HSUS and PETA the message they need to hear from Missourians.

Do you support Proposition B?
Yes
43%

No
56%
Total responses: 3055

(Report Comment)
Bob Carlson September 27, 2010 | 6:26 p.m.

It's color "palette," Ray, but may you be forced to sleep on a pallet for a week and see how it feels.
Connie, who do people EXPECT are behind this? VEGETABLE activists?
Tess, your attempts at logic would be amusing if they weren't so amazingly idiotic. Concrete floors are easy to clean...ever heard of floor drains, or PLUMBING where you come from? Of course, then you'd have to take the dog out of its enclosure for a few minutes, which apparently is against your religion.
Carla, thanks, but i wasn't saying that we should be chasing down meth labs INSTEAD of unlicensed puppy mills (or licensed breeders who are serious repeat violators). I was saying that in many cases such operations are guilty of BOTH. Again, 12 inspectors for the whole State is pitiful. Does Ray support a MO Ag budget increase to hire more, so we can "enforce what's already on the books?"

(Report Comment)
Ruth Elledge September 27, 2010 | 7:03 p.m.

Mr. Sharpiro, I pointed out that this poll had no validity THE DAY AFTER YOU FIRST POSTED on this thread. Hmmm, could it be that my interest in why the percentages were fluctuating so quickly, and why I checked into it, could have had anything to do with the timing of your appearance here? :o) Margin of error has nothing to do with the reasons stated for the poll being invalid. Or perhaps you weren't able to understand the explanation so you've manufactured another excuse to cover your false statements?

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro September 27, 2010 | 7:19 p.m.

Bob:
Spelling pissing matches never impress me much.
I've slept on hard floors, in my car, on the dirt ground and on make shift platforms made from wooden skids.
Even then, I dream in color.
I once had this nightmare about a poodle...
http://www.colchis.com/clrtable.html

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro September 27, 2010 | 7:22 p.m.
This comment has been removed.
connie crewse September 27, 2010 | 7:44 p.m.

@ Ray Shapiro

Ray, you have a BIG FAN in Missouri, named Connie Crewse! I can't stop laughing as they just can't never get one over on you! That's what happens when 'dumb' (the 'yes' people) trys to appear as 'intelligent'!

OMG!.....I am STILL laughing!!!

Too bad these poor souls aren't very bright, because they just keep coming back for more insults! They seem to want to continue making themselves look dumber and dumber!

@ Bob

There is a definite difference in Animal Welfare Groups, and Animal EXTREMISTS Groups.....One actually CARES about a solution and the welfare of the animals, while the other, H$U$, PETA & ASPCA, only cares about lining their own pockets. You and the other Pro-B's are too, well, let's just say you are too simple, to see the difference. Activists are NEVER good in ANY situation! It's a PROVEN fact!

VOTE NO on PROP B if you want to save the animals in Missouri!

VOTE YES on Prob B if you want to see more animals get abused in Missouri!

(Report Comment)
Aimie Ruth September 27, 2010 | 9:52 p.m.

Wow Peggy, you want to resort to calling me names of what you see when you look at yourself in the mirror. Its kinda cute, don't push you insecurities off on me. After reading you pathetic attempt at insult, I am still laughing more and more at you. If I was you I would look in the mirror and put my poor excuse for existence out of its misery.
And Ray never in my life have I been called a sheep. I find this especially funny cause when my family moved to this god forsaken state that is what we said of the people that live here. I am glad to know I was only part right its just those voting no that are the real sheep. Stuck in the past and unable to move forward. Perhaps when this all is over and done with you will have no choice.
As for the HSUS and PETA having deep pockets, good they can continue to fund this until the end.

(Report Comment)
Cassie Morr September 27, 2010 | 10:21 p.m.

@ Ray... So you know my gorgeous standard poodle, "Tillie" came from a reputable breeder. She's proof there are such things!! Our beagle "Tuck" also came from a REPUTABLE BREEDER, sired by 7 champion blood lines of hunting beagle. Not to be confused with show quality, but still worth mentioning and the people who bred him were a very nice older couple who also grew tomatoes. That's where we found Tuck. In their garden, eating tomatoes!! Beagles will eat anything and he's proof! LOL Without a doubt, his breeders will be voting YES on Prop B!

As for Tillie, she has a very large fan base of her own! She's been in the APA's (Animal Protective Association's) annual newsletter, the St. Louis Post Dispatch's "Tail End", The Suburban Journal and on the channel 2 news. Ask her how she feels about her stardom? Or better yet, about her FREEDOM to run and play and to be a dog!! She loves rolling in the grass and eating snow! We tried crating her once while we were gone when she was still just a pup, but she scarred her nose so bad trying to get out that it never returned back to solid black again. We haven't ever caged her since. She, along with our other two just come and go as they please through a doggy door into a fenced yard. Personalities like theirs shouldn't ever be caged!!!

Like a broken record, you all keep mentioning HSUS and PETA. Who #&^@@#%# cares!!! We're not voting for them, are we? They're not being elected, that I know of! We're voting for YOUR dogs!!! You're WELCOME!!!

Vote no MO. Puppy Mills and YES on Prop B!

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro September 27, 2010 | 11:13 p.m.

Aimee Ruth said:
("As for the HSUS and PETA having deep pockets, good they can continue to fund this until the end.")

I say: Send in the clowns...
http://beefmagazine.com/beefstockertrend...

Cassie Morr says:
("Like a broken record, you all keep mentioning HSUS and PETA. Who #&^@@#%# cares!!! We're not voting for them, are we?")

Actually, I'd be just as relentless and suspicious of a proposition being pushed by the KKK, the NATIONAL SOCIALIST AMERICAN LABOR PARTY, that WESTBORO BAPTIST group or NAMBLA.
Knowing as much possible about HSUS and PETA's reputation and agenda has everything to do with deciding how to vote on Proposition B.
Actually, I'd be just as relentless and suspicious of a proposition being pushed by the KKK, the NATIONAL SOCIALIST AMERICAN LABOR PARTY, that WESTBORO BAPTIST group or NAMBLA.
Knowing as much possible about HSUS and PETA's reputation and agenda has everything to do with deciding how to vote on Proposition B.
Actually, I'd be just as relentless and suspicious of a proposition being pushed by the KKK, the NATIONAL SOCIALIST AMERICAN LABOR PARTY, that WESTBORO BAPTIST group or NAMBLA.
Knowing as much possible about HSUS and PETA's reputation and agenda has everything to do with deciding how to vote on Proposition B.
Actually, I'd be just as relentless and suspicious of a proposition being pushed by the KKK, the NATIONAL SOCIALIST AMERICAN LABOR PARTY, that WESTBORO BAPTIST group or NAMBLA.
Knowing as much possible about HSUS and PETA's reputation and agenda has everything to do with deciding how to vote on Proposition B.
Actually, I'd be just as relentless and suspicious of a proposition being pushed by the KKK, the NATIONAL SOCIALIST AMERICAN LABOR PARTY, that WESTBORO BAPTIST group or NAMBLA.
Knowing as much possible about HSUS and PETA's reputation and agenda has everything to do with deciding how to vote on Proposition B.

(Report Comment)
Bob Carlson September 28, 2010 | 3:09 a.m.

Wow, everyone, Ray has a groupie! Maybe having Connie around will cure your personality of psychic acne? Perhaps your influence will make her gush less and start sounding more like a far-right pseudo-intellectual? May you both find true happiness in your new chapter of the Flat Earth Society.

(Report Comment)
Bob Carlson September 28, 2010 | 3:17 a.m.

P.S. Qui male agit odit lucem. Civis Romanus sum. Odi profanum vulgum.

(Report Comment)
Mark Foecking September 28, 2010 | 8:02 a.m.

Cassie Morr wrote:

"Without a doubt, his breeders will be voting YES on Prop B!
"

That's rather presumptous of you. If the breeders (however licensed, reputable, and humane) will have to totally renovate their kennels because they don't meet the new standards, I doubt they'll be voting YES.

It's interesting I haven't seen one breeder on this thread that favors this proposition, have you? You'd think there would be, if "good" breeders had nothing to fear from it. Do you know of any breeders that favor it?

DK

(Report Comment)
Tess Fox September 28, 2010 | 9:21 a.m.

@ BOB-Your are so JUDGEAMENTAL! You judge people by where they live! I have been there done that fast pace, rat race city life! FRESNO! You have your choice, I have MINE!
I make MY OWN decision! I look at BOTH sides of the street on ANY issue and make my decisions based on those FACTS that I find, not my EMOTIONS, and the FUTURE fallout that can arise from ANY issue not just prop B! As should anyone who votes on an issue.
Since I have better things to do with my life and have made MY choice this is my good by! I will PRAY for you ALL! Peace and happiness!

(Report Comment)
Bob Carlson September 28, 2010 | 11:17 a.m.

I don't judge people by where they live, but by what they say and how they treat others (2- and 4-legged). Growing up, i had the best of both worlds, living in the city and spending about every weekend at our place in the mountains. Believe me, i get tired of the sirens, car alarms, trash trucks, loud rap, yelling, cars screeching down my one-way block the wrong direction, etc. A little peace (and quiet) would be nice!

(Report Comment)
Cassie Morr September 28, 2010 | 3:47 p.m.

@ Mark, Did you READ the important part, where I said that Tuck's breeders were a little old couple and that there beagle puppies were loose in the yard?

Where did I lose you?

That meant they didn't have any kennels. I of course, checked. They had an ordinary home, just like ours. No cages!!! Imagine that?! They had one breeding pair, which we were able to meet and I'm assuming from his long line of "hunting" origin, his grandparents etc... didn't spend much time in a cage either. They actually took them out to do what they were bred to do. HUNT!! Or at least to pretend to hunt?

They wouldn't ever sympathize with how you all treat your dogs. They actually loved theirs!! And Prop B won't affect them!!!

Breeders here, however... are caging dogs their entire lives!! And my comment earlier was to prove I'm not against breeding altogether, just the cruelty part. None of the Puppy Mill owners have once said anything to lead us to believe they feel compassion towards dogs, because they feel it's irrelevant? Do you???

I've taken the time to answer ALL of your questions, isn't it time you all explained what you do with the older dogs when they're done breeding?

How many hours do they spend loose?

If any of you have ever had a dog who would protect you?

Why aren't YOU protecting them?

(Report Comment)
Cassie Morr September 28, 2010 | 4:07 p.m.

@ Lacinda, I'm not nearly as bright as you are or I'd probably just walk away and not get so upset, but thanks for the encouragement and for sharing your wisdom. Instead I keep hoping this discussion is going to inspire me to be even more more "pro-active" when I leave! Typing is just a waste of time, it turns out, but a couple plans are under way and Tillie is going to help!!!! ;) ((((Hugs))))

(Report Comment)
lacinda florez September 28, 2010 | 4:50 p.m.

@Cassie Morr
I think you like everyone here has a great argument for their point, that's great but no you will probably not sway anyones oponion here all these people already have their mind set. Soo,there is NO point in getting upset and sitting her red faced beating your head into the ground trying to show your right, because to you, you are right but to everyone else on here they are right.

(Report Comment)
connie crewse September 28, 2010 | 9:28 p.m.

@ Cassie

What the breeders on here are tired of hearing from people like you, is that you ASSUME that our dogs are cooped up in little cages. You ASSUME that they NEVER get any hugs or kisses. You ASSUME that we just breed them into a grave. You ASSUME that NONE of us care. You ASSUME that they never get fresh water and feed. You ASSUME that they never see the light of day. It's simply NOT true! There are good breeders out here, I'm one of them. I love each and everyone of my dogs. As a matter of fact, just today, I sat in one of the pens playing with a Chow Chow that I got from a show breeder in PA for a couple of hours! She 'claimed' he was so spoiled and was loved so much! When I picked him up from the airport, he stunk, hair was matted, and socialized?....HA! that poor dog acted like he never got petted. I've had him almost a year, and now he's brushed on a regular basis, runs and plays, and gets a lot of attention. He gets treats everyday, and has a name!

It's just as hurtful for people like you to ASSUME that because we breed our dogs that we LOVE, that makes us horrible? Like I stated in earlier posts, there are bad breeders, but there is good and evil in ALL walks of life, and to be so judgemental to ASSUME that we are ALL the same, in my opinion, is racist.

This Prop B if passed, will affect me very slightly. As stated earlier, my facility is already nice and roomy. I'll have to build another building, but nothing all that dramatic. My problem is simply that this will NOT fix the problem of animal cruelty. It wants to make people like you 'think' it will. Look at the site thealliancefortruth.com as it has the state regs listed, along with the Prop B plan........ALMOST all of them are the same, there isn't too much difference. And guess what? The SAME inspectors!....Now explain to me how this will solve the problem? It's not! It's also the groups that are pushing this that bothers most people. These groups want you to believe that they really care, but they are merely seeking the almighty dollar, and getting it from exploiting the animals! It's only going to create an economic burden on Missouri that we simply can not afford now. Why not enforce what we have and demand more qualified USDA & Mo Dept of Ag inspectors? We also have Bark Alert and people can turn in those horrid places that you ASSUME we are! Heck, I'd turn them in if I saw them! They have given us ALL a bad name unfairly.

I hope that you decide to answer this maturely, as I really am not a bad breeder like you think I am. I couldn't live with myself knowing that my animals were kept in tiny cages in their own feces, matted hair, etc......that is NOT a good breeders facility I assure you!

(Report Comment)
connie crewse September 28, 2010 | 9:58 p.m.

@ Cassie

I also want to share with you a story that happened not too long ago. I went to a local store, and out front, in the misting rain, was a lady with a box. In that box, was 4 TINY Chihuahuas. I peeked in and could NOT believe my eyes! I asked her how old they was. Her reply was 4 1/2 wks! I was appalled. She was selling these poor babies for $150ea! NO warranty! NO regard to their well being what so ever! Now, is that what you want more of? People that raise them in their home.....with love? That, in my opinion, is nothing but stupidity on her part! She and others like her, will become the new supplier to people wanting purebreds if these ridiculous bills keep getting passed. People will ALWAYS want purebreds.

The sad thing is, is that woman had not broke any law. She can do that and get away with it......why?.....because she is an unlicensed breeder.....that only breeds in her home! Come on people, that is wrong on EVERY level and you know it! Now, am I saying that all unlicensed people are bad? No. But here again, we have a person that is a very bad reflection for the 'home/hobby/backyard breeder' whatever term you use, just like the bad ones that reflect on us all as well.

I've had 2 HORRIBLE experiences with the 'show' breeders as well. One I took to court and won. Does that make ALL the 'show' breeders bad? No.

Again, the point that I'm trying to make, as all of us on here are, is that there ARE bad breeders-licensed, unlicensed, hobby, show.....just like there are good ones. Just because they keep showing bad facilities on the tv doesn't mean that ours look like that. If there are 3,000+ licensed kennels (meaning they have our addresses) in this state, why are there not kennels being shut down EVERYDAY if we were ALL bad? They would have us pecked off one by one very easily if we were that bad. For having that many kennels in this state, we haven't seen too many horror stories if you ask me. So is this nothing more than a gimmick for the H$U$ to get more money and pull on the heartstrings of caring people? Sure it is. I for one love to fish in the summertime. I for one love to have BBQ's in the summer. I don't want to see any of that change in the future because we were fooled by some Animal Activist group. Don't you see how over the edge these groups are? Seriously? Did you read some of their quotes? You really want groups like that coming into our state and gaining control in our Ag Dept?....I don't, and that is why the 'no' people are voting the way they are too.

Would I vote for this if it could fix the sub-standard facilities and shut down the people that are cruel to their animals? Yes, in a heartbeat. But this will NOT fix it. Animal Activists only fix their retirement plans, and say the heck with the animals!

That is why I'm voting NO on PROP B this November 2nd, 2010.

(Report Comment)
Aimie Ruth September 29, 2010 | 1:34 a.m.

Connie I am not sure exactly how many dogs you have, but I am assuming it is potentially more than 50. You say you spent hours with this Chow. Out of curiosity how much time was spent with all the other dogs you own?
I also guess since if this passes and half these so called licensed breeders get shut down. Those few inspectors would have less to worry about.
Also that lady with the Chihuahua's was breaking a law. One most likely loitering and two I bet she did not claim the income earned. Those type of breeder will be next, cause back yard breeding is almost as bad as the Puppy Mill situation.
I was also at a meeting here in Saint Louis that Wayne was at and he also stated he had no issue with small legitimate breeders. As one day we will need them, cause one day the shelters will not be so full. So there you go I agree with this statement. Breeders that breed for the breed and hand select those they breed. Breeders that breed to show or do sport with. Thats not where your large scale breeders puppies go. They get sent off to god knows where and to Pet stores. Pet stores have no business carrying puppies.
S*** Connie you even bought a dog without ever seeing it or the parents. And that my dear is the type of breeder we are after.
People are also trying to sway opinion wit what is going to happen to the extra dogs if this passes. Well if you are the kind caring people you claim to be, you would ensure at the very least they are placed into rescue. Rescue groups are already planning for this. If you take them out back and kill them, you simply prove we were right all along. You people never truly cared in the first place. At least these dogs will be suffering no more.

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro September 29, 2010 | 2:11 a.m.

("Many kennels hire employees to help them maintain a clean, healthy, well-socialized environment for their animals. Limiting the number of breeding dogs to 50 regardless of the excellent care they receive eliminates jobs, taxes and revenue paid into the community, and is in violation of the Missouri State Constitution that allows for a person to enjoy the fruits of his own labor. I support the laws in place to address substandard kennels as well as animal abuse and neglect, but PROP B on this ballot measure does nothing to address those issues. Rather, it restricts those who take good care of their animals, pay their taxes, employee others in the community, and are participating in the free enterprise system.")
http://wiggleywaggleypuppies.com/index.a...

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro September 29, 2010 | 2:26 a.m.

("Meet Former HSUS VP David Wills:
Wills’s legacy at HSUS is substantial. According to Animal People News, it was Wills who persuaded HSUS to hire future president Wayne Pacelle (his old college roommate) away from the anti-hunting Fund for Animals in 1994.

Wills was also a close friend of mob and Ku Klux Klan lawyer DeDay Larene. (Larene’s wife worked for Wills at the Nashua Humane Society, and later followed him to HSUS.) Wills testified on Larene’s behalf at his 1994 sentencing hearing. Larene would later perform his court-mandated community service at HSUS, following a one-year prison term for helping mafia kingpin Joey Giacalone conceal $410,000 from the IRS.")
http://humanewatch.org/index.php/site/po...

(Report Comment)
Bob Carlson September 29, 2010 | 8:16 a.m.

@Connie, i like your last two comments. If it takes getting through all the hysterical snarking to finally start having rational discourse, well, nobody ever said it was easy.

@Ray, i've never given a dime to HSUS or PETA, and don't plan to in future. There may well be rotten apples and wackos in those outfits (there always are), but i really don't think either is going to get some groundswell of new donations over this. I'd be interested to find out more about the anti-B support organizations. The Missouri CATTLEMEN's Association? That's just plain weird. It smells funny to me. Taking over our state Ag department? That also has a tinge of unreality to it. Now, PRIVATE SECTOR folks taking over agencies, de facto anyway, is something i DO worry about, like CCA taking over our inmate detention system. There's abuse at scary levels going on there, and it's all a legacy of Reagan and "privatization."

(Report Comment)
connie crewse September 29, 2010 | 8:37 a.m.

@ Aimee Ruth or better yet "AR"

All you do is ASSUME. You like the other AR people have NO facts. You only mumble the same ole same ole. That same ole same ole is Wayne Pacelle talking through his puppets. You are nothing than a mindless puppet that has NO facts, NO cognitive thinking, and NO idea what in the world is going on around you. Too bad you have lost your own set of thought process, but that's what happens when the 'weak' have been preyed upon by the Animal Activists...it is the same as religious cults.....What next Aimee, will you kill a family like they do to save an animal? You are as a sheep walking to it's own slaughter.

To clarify on your non-factual comments and 'cult behavior', I have UNDER 50 dogs. I DID see the parents of the Chow Chow PRIOR to purchase. BEFORE I spent time with the Chow Chow, ALL the other dogs was played with for quite a while as well.

It's funny to me that one of the ways to define a good breeder is seeing the parents BEFORE a purchase?...Hmmmm, that must make me a good breeder according to you and your flimsy ideas?

You are only parroting what your 'Cult Leader' has coached you on. You have NO facts on ANY breeder, just slanderous assumptions that you want other people to believe. Sorry, but thank goodness not everyone has a weak and feeble mind, and can think on their own. Most people will seek the truth on this and will not ASSUME on everything.

Vote NO on Prop B and SAVE MISSOURI from the clutches of the ANIMAL RIGHTS groups!

(Report Comment)
connie crewse September 29, 2010 | 8:49 a.m.

@ Aimee...AR

Ray just brought to light AGAIN, some more interesting FACTS, NOT assumptions, on your 'leader' the HSUS. Again, here are just 2 quotes from Jim Jones, I mean Wayne Pacelle:

"I don't want to see another dog or cat born."

We have no problem with the extinction of domestic animals."

Yeah, he really sounds like an animal-friendly person with their best interest at hand?...

How many Pro-B's on here wear eye glasses, makeup, clothing to include animal products? Better not let your Leader find out, or you will be scolded or forced to drink some 'kool-aid'!

How many of you Pro-B's have taken aspirin, Ibuprofen, antibiotics.....better not let Jim, I mean Wayne find out, or you will be his next target.

Because of animals, the human race has been able to develop many of our modern day products that you Pro-B's enjoy. You say, that has nothing to do with Prop B and you are way off topic.......WRONG again Pro-B's! Jim Jones, darn it, I mean Wayne Pacelle, and his other affiliated activist groups, destroy and burn Research Labs for their 'supposed' cause. Save the Animals! Dogs, Cats, Cattle, Mice, Rats, Sheep, Goats, Pigs, Chickens.....get the picture? I'll bet you anything you want to bet, that if a Pro-B gets diagnosed with Cancer, the first thing you will do is reap the benefits of all the animals that were used by humans for the advancement of medicine! You are nothing more than a hypocrite in the eyes of your leader! Don't try and convince anyone either that you don't take any type of medicine or wear any type of clothing that has involved an animal either. That would be like saying you shop at Walmart but you don't buy 'imported' goods! HA!

www.mofed.org
www.thealliancefortruth.com

Don't be brainwashed by the groups that want to ABOLISH ALL ANIMAL AGRICULTURE Missourians! Research the HSUS, PETA, ALF, and see for yourself if these types of groups are what you want coming into Missouri! HSUS is deceptive, manipulative and money hungry! Don't fall for their False Teachings! Be part of the SHOW-ME crowd, and vote NO on PROP B to save ALL ANIMAL AGRICULTURE!

VOTE NO on PROP B

(Report Comment)
Mark Foecking September 29, 2010 | 9:03 a.m.

I'm not going to get into this emotional argument anymore, just because some Prop B proponents feel that the only reason anyone should own a dog is as a coddled pet. Prop B won't do anything to guarantee that, of course. Nowhere in the bill does it say anything about socialization or human contact.

It's simple human arrogance to assume that an otherwise well-fed and cared for animal is any less content with its existence than a pet, but I guess a lot of emotionally blinded people can't see that.

However, I do have an observation about the complaint that there are only 12 inspectors for the entire state. That's actually a close to sufficient number.

Say your average inspector visits 4 kennels/week, leaving the other day for paperwork, vacation, etc. That's 200 kennels/year, or 2400 for all 12 inspectors. I've seen in this thread that there are either 1400 or 3000 licensed facilities, so 12 is either more than enough, or not a huge shortage. Adding an inspector or two would ensure all facilities are inspected every year as stipulated in present law.

We have no need for Prop B. It will not solve the problems its proponents think it will solve. We do have need for increased prosecution of those breeders who do not follow regulations.

DK

(Report Comment)
connie crewse September 29, 2010 | 9:05 a.m.

@ Bob

Really, why is it so 'weird' and 'smells funny' for the Cattlemans Association to NOT want this passed? They represent AGRICULTURE Bob!

If you are TRULY sincere, then contact your local Farm Bureau and ask them, or better yet, contact the Cattlemens Association yourself and see what they have to say.

The Cattlemens Assoc would NOT have jumped on board if this wasn't something serious. They recognize these radical groups and the damage they cause in ALL animal agriculture. They have the intelligence to see what lies ahead if this thing gets passed.

Prop B states 'DOMESTIC ANIMAL'......LOOK UP THE DEFINITION. That alone will get people to start wondering what their up to.

Bob, do you think that people would vote for this if it was blatenly (unsure of spelling!) attacking the Beef, Dairy, Poultry, Swine Industries and trying to shut them down? NO! People would see it coming a mile away! So what better way to get into those departments of Ag through the sad puppy dog bill! The wording is what people need to recognize in this thing....DOMESTIC ANIMAL! Why didn't they strictly use the word CANINE?....Hmmmmmmm

VOTE NO on PROP B and SAVE MISSOURI'S AGRICULTURE!!

(Report Comment)
Aimie Ruth September 29, 2010 | 10:14 a.m.

Connie why is it if you claim to have less than 50 dogs, you would have to add another building? If you saw the parents of the Chow how is it you did not know the condition of the puppy you were receiving?
Again wit the sheep/ brainwashed crap, is that all you can retort back. I have never even been involved with anything the HSUS has been until now. And I certainly do not support PETA. Again if they want to fund this, fine by me.
You question my ethics, by assuming how I live my life. I am that person that reads ingredient labels and won't use a product by a company that does animal testing. I very rarely will take medication and do not eat meant. The only thing I buy from Wal-Mart is DVD's and do all my food shopping at Whole Foods market. And mostly consume things that are USDA stamped organic. I could go on, but really do not feel the need to. I have absolutely nothing to prove to you.
You are the ones in question here, if majority did it right this board wouldn't exist.

(Report Comment)
Aimie Ruth September 29, 2010 | 2:19 p.m.

All you people know how to do is attack these organizations as a defense.
And for your information Puppy Mills are not farming. Farming is not breeding dogs. Sounds to me more like you are envious of these companies money, cause that is all you talk about is how much money they have.
Regulations need to be put in place, or you people will short cut all day long.
And for your information, I for one think that a large part of animal agriculture is disgusting. That is why more and more regulations need to be put in place. You people get greedy and the animals suffer.
HOWEVER THIS IS ABOUT PUPPY MILLS/ LARGE SCALE BREEDERS. Stop bringing farming into it.

(Report Comment)
Cassie Morr September 29, 2010 | 2:25 p.m.

@ Bob, if I hadn't been on such a time constraint this morning to get to work, I was going to agree. Connie's two posts directed at me WERE half way intelligent and even some what thoughtful. Looks however... like things have went down hill again.

So far, if I can remember correctly us Pro- B's (I actually like THAT one!!) have been "labeled" a bunch of liberal tree huggers, racists, vegans, animal activists, groupies, followers, weak minded, teary eyed, emotional SHEEP, all because we love dogs!!! LOL

So far on the name calling scale, I think we're losing, which proves what? Yeahhhh... them NO-B's certainly look like a rational bunch to me! LOL ;P

Vote YES if you're a Pro-B like me!!

(Report Comment)
Cassie Morr September 29, 2010 | 2:36 p.m.

@ Aimee, I don't know you, but think you're an awesome person and have agreed over here in silence with everything you've said!!! You're right on the mark!!! You tell em'!!! :)

(Report Comment)
Cassie Morr September 29, 2010 | 9:08 p.m.

Just once, I'll do the "link" thing too.

Opponents of this measure are supported and funded by some of the worst puppy mills in Missouri. Several large-scale puppy mills that have been cited for failing to properly care for their dogs or have even been compelled to surrender their USDA breeding licenses continue to be licensed by the state and operate in the state of Missouri. Some of Missouri’s largest puppy mill operators are Prop B’s most vociferous critics. For example, Lois Stevens, who has been a highly vocal opponent of the measure, was forced to surrender her USDA license and agreed not to apply for a new license for ten years in 1998 due to repeated, severe violations of the federal Animal Welfare Act, including filthy conditions and lack of basic care for her breeding dogs— yet as of 2009 she maintained her Missouri state breeding license. Recent research indicates that she continues to breed and sell dogs online and directly to the public to this day under various kennel names, including “Bone Fam” bulldogs and “Lazy S Aussies.” And in 1986, Jim and Mary Foster (doing business as Oak Leaf Kennels) were found by the USDA to be “dealers engaged in business without a license” and were cited for improper storage of food, improper sanitation of facilities and overcrowding. In a consent decision they were ordered to cease and desist from these violations and were assessed a civil penalty. Shockingly, Mary Foster remains state licensed to this day; in fact she co-owns one of the largest puppy mills in Missouri, Country Pets. She is also a financial supporter of MoFed PAC, an animal use group which lobbies against the most basic animal protection measures and is the principal opponent of Prop B.

Current Missouri laws have not been effective in stopping puppy mill cruelty. In September 2009, more than 100 neglected dogs were removed from the property of Tim King, Jr.’s Doo Little Kennel in Phelps County. The dogs were found in deplorable conditions, yet until recently King was licensed and regularly inspected by both the USDA and the MO Department of Agriculture, both of which cited him for repeated violations of basic humane and sanitation standards year after year. The King case is but one example of the types of abject animal suffering and neglect that current laws allowed to exist unchecked for years. In contrast to current law, which requires proof of “substantial harm to an animal” before cruelty charges can be filed, Prop B improves enforcement opportunities by creating a misdemeanor charge of “puppy mill cruelty” which may be filed for any violation of basic care standards outlined in the proposed law.

http://yesonpropb.com/facts

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro September 29, 2010 | 9:54 p.m.

Cassie:
Unbelievable!
You have discovered the "missing link."
I would not expect anything else from a site which originated from the efforts of HSUS which funded the efforts to write this Proposition in the first place.
Interesting how the portion you posted does not explain why HSUS and friends did not advocate for better enforcement of violators of current laws and why this Proposition B, which has intentions to put good breeders in a hole, does not address how your chosen example should have their day in court, or why the laws are not being enforced, to their liking.

I once read this book about explaining why men are from Mars and women are from Venus.
Seems to me that learned people who are against Proposition B are from Pluto and Pro-B's are from Uranus.

(Report Comment)
Bob Carlson September 29, 2010 | 10:53 p.m.

Connie, you're lazy as well as obnoxious. I already addressed in GREAT detail the definitions, uses, and implied meanings of terms like dog, domestic animal, pet, etc., several days ago. I used to enforce state and federal laws and regulations, and I know this stuff. I've been hired as an expert witness in court cases to interpret regulatory language and applicability. You people don't READ my stuff thoroughly and let the points sink in, it seems, just grab at a buzzword or two. Or maybe you just need a scrip for your short attention-span problem.

(Report Comment)
Aimie Ruth September 30, 2010 | 12:56 a.m.

Hey Ray, just a little tid bit for you. I can guarantee you that every single person voting yes on this does not care how many of these Large Scale Breeders/ Puppy Mills get shut down. I myself hope majority do. You get no love from the mass population. The more and more people learn about these so called large scale breeders the more and more they want to vote yes on this.
No one cares about the links you post or about your mindless talk. Ever wonder why only those that live in the stix are willing to vote no. Its because you people want to make an easy buck and have no empathy for the animals you are harming. Go walk into Chicago, New York City, Detroit and hell I will even say Saint Louis voicing your thoughts and I bet you get shot.
You live in the middle of nowhere and those around you all think the same and flock together. Of S*** now whose the sheep. If I where to venture into your area I would stand out like an immediate outsider. Why? Because I look different and talk different. Oh wait because I am an individual. Get with it your neighbors may believe your BS lies, thankfully they do not have the mass population of the state.

(Report Comment)
Cassie Morr September 30, 2010 | 1:42 a.m.

@ Bob... You're WISE beyond my years! LOL ;) I'm not leaving here till we "Pro-B's" win on Nov 2nd, just because I'd like US to get the last HAPPY word!

I was trying very seriously to give people here the benefit of a doubt though (taking on some liberal notion) people can change. OH well... I'm NOT as I stated earlier, a liberal, who thinks people CAN change! I'd be the first in line to hang the puppy miller who looks the slightest bit guilty if they put me on a jury. I don't believe in "reform" or the fixing of people and you people have only strengthened my convictions. You should start PRAYING that I'm never on your jury!!

Life is definitely a "learned" experience, even if it's a negative one, not necessarily your own fault, which is exactly why I think you all shouldn't have a license to procreate. I'd like to limit the number of your offspring to ZILCH so you can't mess them up too! That however, doesn't make YOU less guilty! I could care less if your parents were puppy millers too!

Dogs, however are not like us. They've only been left to us, to care for them. We have control over whether they live or die and how their life turns out. They have absolutely NO control!!

Mark would like to suggest if an animal is caged it's entire life, it deserves nothing more, as a justification for what he does, but I've met thousands of dogs and personalities. I think all the years it takes to get them "used" to living in a cage are torturous! I've tried confining my pups to rooms when they were little, to prevent them eating my furniture, at which point they cried ALL NIGHT, every night till they were FREE! They do know where they'd like to be, but after years of being in a cage, they get scared of living and of wanting anything, since so far their lives have been a total disappointment.

HUMANS have suffered similar abuse and after years of being abused have been brain washed into thinking that's just the way life is. They didn't try to leave either. It doesn't make that kind of abuse OK, does it?

Vote YES on Prop B!!!!

(Report Comment)
Mark Foecking September 30, 2010 | 7:52 a.m.

Cassie, what is it exactly that I do?

I don't breed dogs, if that's what you think.

DK

(Report Comment)
Laura Johnston September 30, 2010 | 8:46 a.m.

I've removed some recent comments in this thread because they didn't comply with our policy. Please remember that we don't allow anonymous posters at our site.
Thanks,
Laura Johnston
interactive news editor

(Report Comment)
Mark Foecking September 30, 2010 | 8:50 a.m.

I'm going to post this again (thanks Valerie), just in case any of the "pro's" would actually like to read it. Pay particular attention to the "Animal Health and Husbandry Standards" section.

http://www.sos.mo.gov/adrules/csr/curren...

The only major change that Prop B would mandate is more space. Dogs could still be kept in confinement their entire lives, they need not have any significant human contact (other than veterinary care), or even contact with other dogs other than to be bred. They could still be bred until they die, although not quite as often.

We also see it's not really about care and treatment in licensed breeding facilities. It's about shutting most of them down:

Aimie Ruth wrote:

"I can guarantee you that every single person voting yes on this does not care how many of these Large Scale Breeders/ Puppy Mills get shut down. I myself hope majority do."

This is the agenda here. It has very little to do with breeder's treatment of dogs. In their minds, any breeder, no matter how well licensed, inspected, and run, is a puppy mill (which prop B doesn't even define) if they have more than a few dogs, or use confinement of any sort.

Prop B addresses none of these issues, so why do they support it? I think the agenda is clear.

Aimie, Cassie, Ruth, et al - if you want to petition for a bill that will do away with anything but backyard breeding in a home setting, with no enclosures, then petition for that. But don't pretend that prop B will do anything but make it more difficult, and expensive, for breeders who already do follow the rules to stay in business.

Be honest.

DK

(Report Comment)
Cassie Morr September 30, 2010 | 9:54 a.m.

@ Mark... I'd like to agree, in that my own agenda, in a perfect world would be to eliminate ALL mass dog breeders. Dogs are not chicken eggs and to "farm" them as if they were is evil, in my opinion. Lucky for all the Puppy Mill owners I didn't get help in making this bill and so we'll just have to make do with basic care, for now.

Also... once again (third times a charm), what do all you Puppy Mill owners do with your senior breeding dogs once you're DONE with them???

(Report Comment)
Mark Foecking September 30, 2010 | 11:40 a.m.

Cassie Morr wrote:

"I'd like to agree, in that my own agenda, in a perfect world would be to eliminate ALL mass dog breeders."

Thank you for being forthright.

I work in a field that demands honesty, transparency, and accuracy, and have never been comfortable with ideas/bills being promoted that aren't exactly what they say they are, or will not have the intended effects.

We'll see what voters think of that in a month or so.

DK

(Report Comment)
Aimie Ruth September 30, 2010 | 1:31 p.m.

H. Hunt I skimmed through the links and looked at only one. One slandering the ASPCA and mocking one of their videos. When the original video was for spay and neutering, so for someone to change that video makes me think they are against spaying and neutering.
You are trying to make a point that a large amount of animals are euthanized every year and that these organizations must somehow have absolute control over this fact. Problem is so many raids happen and so many facilities are full there is not always a place for all them to go. When there are no shelters and fosters available what can any of us do? At least euthanasia is better than the life they had been living and these poor creatures are suffering no more. I don't see you supposed animal lovers that run these breeding facilities stepping up to help. One of the links on here questioned why in one raid 30 dogs went to New York and the rest went to Georgia. This is common practice when raids happen the dogs get split and sent to where there is room. Just like the dog fighting ring broke up last year The MO500. They were sent to rescues all over the country.
I hope you people are proud of yourselves, continuing to breed when the shelters are so full. You say its because people want puppies, guess what puppies come through the shelters too.
Also I am with Cassie, what happens to your adults that can no longer breed. Why is it no one seems to want to answer this question?

(Report Comment)
Aimie Ruth September 30, 2010 | 1:36 p.m.

I retract my comment about the video it was not a spay neuter video originally. IT WAS AN ANTI-ANIMAL CRUELTY COMMERCIAL... It takes some sick people to twist that.

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro September 30, 2010 | 2:04 p.m.

The Puppy Mill Prevention Act or Prop B, which will be appearing on the November ballot in Missouri, isn't a good idea.
http://www.themaneater.com/stories/2010/...
("Magnum Yorkies supports the laws already in place but this ballot measure does nothing to address those issues, rather it restricts good breeders.")
http://magnumyorkies.homestead.com/Propo...

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro September 30, 2010 | 2:06 p.m.

Do you support Proposition B?
Yes
43%
No
57%
Total responses: 3109

(Report Comment)
Helen (not the actress) Hunt September 30, 2010 | 4:25 p.m.

If PROP B was all about the "humane treatment of animals" and giving dogs water and adequate space, I would agree with you.. But if you have ever researched the raid tactics of HSUS as well as ASPCA you would know that it is not.. Think for a moment.. I recently watched a couple of raids in action, both by HSUS and ASPCA. Both use basically the same tactics in their raids/ and making of "puppy mill raid commericals".. This is in all essence the very reason for these raids. They encite rage against breeders and are responsible for bringing in the bulk of the 100-200 MILLION dollars a year given to both the HSUS and ASPCA. Think.. The HSUS and ASPCA are allowed to "run these raids" acting almost as a goverment entity.. #1 Private rescue groups are allowed onto PRIVATE PROPTERY. #2 Private rescue groups are allowed to gather evidence against the accused in the processing of a federally issued warrant. #3. Private rescues are then allowed to seize property, meaning dogs and other animals. #4. Private rescue groups are then allowed to "film the entire event in process and during the commission of the servicing of a federal search warrant" 5. They are then allowed to use these "raid films for profit" meaning we all know that these RAID COMMERICALS are what brings in those millions 6. Then they are allowed to testify against the accused. .. Summary: What ETHICAL judge would allow a PRIVATE rescue groups onto PRIVATE property to gather evidence, seize animals, film and profit HUNDREDS OF millions off the ads, and they allow that same profiting party to ETHICALLY testify against the accused. Do you need any more "motive" than that? . In no other instance that I am aware of would a judge allow a private party to gather evidence, film, seize property, which in many cases is DIPOSED of by the "rescuer" through euthanization, all while profiting BILLIONS of dollars over the decades. And they these same PROFITING parties are allowed to testify against the accused? Do you not see anything legally, ethically and morally wrong with that picture? Most of these farmers and breeders do not have the means to defend themselves against these groups.. These groups have hundreds of millions of dollars in assets. They use their own techs, vets and other corhorts to publicly slander and ruin these farmers and breeders in the process.. All while making BILLIONS of dollars off these ads.. Im sorry, but there is NOTHING in this process that makes me have any faith in the fact that the HSUS OR ASPCA have any other motivation but one of greed... You should research these groups assets and raid tactics online.. Again, if these laws weren't so vague it might be differnt. But anyone who knows anything about animal law knows that these laws are far reaching and are not just about Puppy mills.. They are just a first step into regulating ALL animal and farming laws that deal with animals.

(Report Comment)
Cody Hobbs September 30, 2010 | 4:32 p.m.

I will answer your question. If you would quit calling us puppy mills and start calling us professional licensed breeders you might get more answers. I put ads in my local papers and find them good homes. I do not put my dogs down when they are retired and I simply give them away. There the questions is answered!

(Report Comment)
Helen (not the actress) Hunt September 30, 2010 | 5:03 p.m.

I will not repost my other comments that were removed, but I think if you are really interested in HSUS ASPCA and PETA agendas and motivation, you should take the time to read this... http://tl.gd/5v7q7v

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro September 30, 2010 | 5:09 p.m.

Cody Hobbs said:
("I will answer your question. If you would quit calling us puppy mills...")
Lots of luck with getting an apology from the poodle dyer.
She assumed I was a puppy miller, the moment I made my first post on this thread. It's been all downhill for her since then, as far as I'm concerned.
I have no present ties to the industry, except for some volunteer work at a local animal care facility.
As for being a puppy miller, you obviously don't deserve to be called such and the deragatory term should not even be in the Proposition. These people just want to hurt Missouri's private businesses and reputation. Now if it were a Proposition outlawing pepper mills, then I'd be for it. Those pesky things hurt my wrist...

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro September 30, 2010 | 5:26 p.m.

No kill policy is a great idea to advocate for. Better to vote No on proposition B and use resources to enforce current laws and save the animals via a no kill mentality.
("The ASPCA and HSUS both take in over $100,000,000.00 dollars a year ALONE.. PETA is right up there.. Other LARGE groups close behind.. According to my research, we, THE UNITED STATES, spend between ONE AND TWO BILLION dollars a year euthanizing animals in this country.. Doesn't the mere thought of that make you sick? Doesn't it nauseate you enough to make you want to hold SOMEONE responsible for where all of that money is going? You can't seriously tell me that you think that with THOSE amounts of money,(not counting the UNCOUNTABLE OTHER BILLIONS), with THAT MUCH MONEY that we cannot put a LEGITIMATE SPAY AND NEUTER program into place to start saving some of the 4-12 MILLION dogs and cats that we kill in this country every year..YOU REALLY don't think with THAT kind of money we CANT save the greater portion of these animals? You should research San Antonio Texas and several other major cities to see how GREATLY NO KILL POLICY HAS BEEN ACCEPTED BY THE PUBLIC THERE... You would be AMAZED if you take the time to do a little research...")
http://www.twitlonger.com/show/5v7q7v

(Report Comment)
Cassie Morr September 30, 2010 | 10:05 p.m.

@ Helen... During "raids" they get video of the FACTS as seen through LIVE FOOTAGE. If it were all lies, it wouldn't be so self evident, would it? All the money raised through kindhearted peoples donations is to do just what it's doing right now!!! To stop what we see in those videos from happening!

You all keep mentioning PETA. No where have I read that they're helping to fund Prop B, so why is it you keep mentioning them?

In this instance, when you're housing 100's of dogs, all on your little lonesome you're able to overwhelm all of Missouri's shelters to the point there isn't any room to spare. In order for that not to happen, due to your neglect or deciding to turn them all over when you can no longer afford to feed them (as was the case here recently) someone has to be ready to take on your surplus. If any of these dogs are put to sleep, it's YOUR fault! You can't pass the blame to Missouri's animal shelters for your mistakes and for not being able to house 500 dogs. That is why reducing the number of dogs in your possession is imperative. When one of you breaks the law, is everybody just supposed anticipate your failure and build even bigger shelters? WHO is supposed to save all these poor dogs when you're done making money off of them?

If the numbers are reduced to 50, less animals will be put to sleep, due to your carelessness and 1,000's will be spared from having their lives sacrificed to make a buck.

Vote YES on Prop B

(Report Comment)
Allan Sharrock September 30, 2010 | 10:51 p.m.

I will be voting No on B. I do not trust HSUS anymore than I trust PETA or GRO here in Columbia. The anti-taser people claimed they only wanted certain things adopted and then they would go away. Well they lied and I am willing to bet that HSUS will use this as a excuse to file lawsuits against farmers.

(Report Comment)
Aimie Ruth October 1, 2010 | 12:25 a.m.

The only people I can see being insulted by the term puppy miller are those that have a guilty conscience. Otherwise you should not feel the need to defend yourselves. I will not call you people professional as I don't believe most of you are. I have been trying to be nice and refer to you mostly as large scale breeder that is the best you are going to get.
You people want to continue to slander the HSUS and PETA. They both have their purpose. Who else is standing up to the issues such as the one depicted in this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAaJqi3rT...
Noone, that is who. They both are there to help and support our wildlife. I agree that most the time they need to stay out of the domestic animal affairs. But at times like this one they are needed as they can fund this.
Ever stop to think that if all the large scale/ puppy mills were limited there would not be as many homeless pets later. Again I don't see you people standing up and offering homes to these poor animals. They won't make you any money, so you say skrew them.
At least this is a start, noone needs these large scale breeders. Yoy must be blind if you didn't know this was coming. the only people that buy your puppies are the uneducated. Oh and the greedy Petstore owner. Did you know most Petstore puppies are bought on a whim? Most are later dumped and or disposed of. This is your fault, no one elses.

(Report Comment)
Mark Foecking October 1, 2010 | 6:42 a.m.

Aimie Ruth wrote:

"At least this is a start, noone needs these large scale breeders."

Then this is what you should be telling people, and this is what the bill should be saying. The title of it should be "Dog Breeder Elimination Act", and it should make it illegal for anyone to breed a dog for profit.

However, I doubt that would pass, so you do it this way. I find that quite dishonest.

Cassie Morr wrote:

"1,000's will be spared from having their lives sacrificed to make a buck."

Millions of animals are sacrificed every year to make a buck (and provide people with foods they desire). What's so different about a dog that it deserves protections that pigs, cows, chickens, etc, don't get, other than the fact that you love dogs so much? Again, let's not be "speciesist" about this. Other animals can be just as loving and loyal pets, if one puts in the time with them.

If dogs cannot be confined, and need to be socialized, so do pigs, cows, chickens, and every other domesticated animal. I think you can see that's impractical, and again, something a large majority of people would not support.

DK

(Report Comment)
Helen (not the actress) Hunt October 1, 2010 | 7:46 a.m.

CassieMoore.. Then don't you think that the "raid videoing" should be done by a government entity so that it would be legitimate?. Dont you think that the evidence gathering, the property seizures should also be done by a goverment entity..NOT by a private rescue group such as ASPCA and HSUS who have continually used these videos to profit billions of dollars. Do you not see ANYTHING wrong with the fact that a profiting, NONGOVERNMENT, agency is being allowed to seize property, gather evidence, film all on private property? I know others who have asked to be allowed to participate in this filming and were not allowed to do so although I do not believe that ANY non-government/law agency should be allowed to participate in a seizure where a federal warrant is being issued. You do NOT allow private groups to come in and "tarnish" the validity of "evidence" in a "crime scene". That is EXACTLY what they are doing. Would you want that to happen in ANY situation in your own home or on your property while a warrant is being served? I doubt it. That is why under any NORMAL, LEGAL circumstance it is NOT allowed. The the party who is using that film for PROFIT should NEVER be allowed to participate as a biased witness against the accused. Do you not see that they would have motivation to "do the wrong thing" under these circumstances? And I agree, if this law didn't have far reaching "repercussions" and implications and it stated. "these new laws apply only to K-9s and will ONLY be enforced by a GOVERNMENT ENTITY such as the USDA", I would agree. But these "private parties" such as the HSUS and ASPCA who are not LEGAL RESIDENTS of this state should have no ability to "regulate and patrol" farmers and breeders. continued

(Report Comment)
Helen (not the actress) Hunt October 1, 2010 | 7:54 a.m.

They acting WAY beyond their capacity as a "RESCUE GROUP/ANIMAL RIGHTS ACTIVIST".. In the capacity that they have been participating, gathering evidence, "leading raids" they are acting in a "judicial/lawful capacity". It is NOT legal nor ethical. If you state laws have allowed this to happen then your state laws are NOT legal. Reserach "search warrant laws". You will see that in no OTHER circumstance that you can find, would a search warrant be considered to be legal, with this type of "outside/private group" participation. They are infringing on someones constitutional rights. Im telling you, these groups are NOT out to make laws that give a dog space or ensure that an animal has water.. They are out to give the HSUS and ASPCA untetered access to your property. People really need to research these groups. Their "leaders". They vegan agendas. Their current holdings. Meat companies that HSUS ASPCA AND PETA are buying into/trying to regulate. And you should REALLY research SAYRE of the ASPCA, Pachelle and other CEOS, their "ties to each other and each group". Meaning their past jobs and relationships to each of these groups .. They have common past and agendas. You would know what this was really all about if you did. They are out to destroy the meat producing farms and industy in this country.. These groups attend every meeting in each meat producing company in this country continually plaguing their boards with lawsuits and regulations in an effort to stop production.. Peta has bought up so much stock in Tysons foods, they have openly stated that if they ever suceed in purchasing this company they would use it to prouduce "vegan products". Pachelle and Sayre are both OPENLY VEGAN.. cont

(Report Comment)
Helen (not the actress) Hunt October 1, 2010 | 7:54 a.m.

Dont you people get it? It is NOT about dogs and puppy mills.. DOgs and puppy mills are the PRIMARY Source of HSUS and ASPCA money.. I mean that MOST of their money comes off of these PUPPY MILL COMMERICAL.. This money is being used to further their vegan agendas.. Don't you think that by now if they HSUS really gave a damn about a "PUPPY MILL" and saving dogs that they would have built at least ONE DOG RESCUE SHELTER BY NOW?.. That they would NOT be duming these "rescued puppy mill dogs" off on large city shelters like Atlanta , Chicago, Kern County H.S.? These are some of the HIGHEST KILL RATE SHELTERS in the United States.. Think about that..Does that sound like the actions of a caring "rescue group"? NOPE.. It sounds like the actions of a "CORPORATION" whose goal is to make a profit and has other agendas. Think of how many TENS OF MILLIONS of these euthanized animals could have been saved over the last 100+yrs of ASPCAs existence and HSUS since 1954 had we been building shelters with all of those countless billions. Thats the sad part. People really need to wake up and reserach.. If this was ONLY about puppy mills and animal welfare, I might agree.. But with a little effort you can plainly see that it is not. Not when you look into the background and past history of these groups and their CEOS.

(Report Comment)
Helen (not the actress) Hunt October 1, 2010 | 8:17 a.m.

AND YOU WILL NEVER SEE SAYRE OR PACHELLE RESPOND TO THE "CRITICAL" parts of these accustations. They dont want these accusations to come to light.. They know that these accusations ARE LEGITIMATE.. They will NEVER address them openly and elaborate on the VALID points.. They may make a ROUND about reponse... But the are NEVER going to openly address their vegan agendas while allowing public/media participation.. Meaning THEY WON'T ALLOW REPORTERS TO OPENLY ADDRESS THEIR PAST, THEIR AGENDAS and their motivation.. They MIGHT address PARTS of my statement, WITHOUT answering questions.. But they will never allow an indepth look into their financials, groups they support.. Sayre recently stated in the press that "it is none of the publics business what they do with THEIR donation money". He stated something to the effect that "the HSUS is a PRIVATE groups and they do not have to explain their actions or the way the money is spent". LET THAT SINK IN.. Does that sound like the "open book policy" of a "rescue group" whose very existence relies on donations? I have a statement IN WRITING where I addressed SARAH, top media spokesperson of the HSUS on twitter asking here did HSUS keep records of euthanizia rates of the "unwanted puppy mill dogs" left at these high rate shelters.. Sarah told me "no, it was not the HSUS responsiblity as to what happened to these dogs once they left them with these shelters". Do I need to say anything more? And I DO HAVE THAT STATMENT IN COPY IN MY FILES.. Would a CARING animal group have that kind of attitude? That statement said to me that "HSUS doesnt care enough to even keep up with how many of these animals live or die".. Is that the actions of a caring "ANIMAL RIGHTS/RESCUE GROUP"?

(Report Comment)
Helen (not the actress) Hunt October 1, 2010 | 9:07 a.m.

In a recently released statement by Wayne Pachelle, CEO of HSUS.. Wayne Pachelle had been asked questions as to the number of "SAVED PUPPY MILL RAID DOGS" that were actually ending up in shelters that had been euthanized. To this Wayne Pachelle responded "the public doesnt not need to know how many of these animals are euthanized/it is not in the best interest of the public to know how many of these animals are euthanized.. Can you believe that a rescue group that takes in well in excess of 100MILLION dollars a year does not think that the public has a right to know what their money is being spent for? I guarantee you that WAYNE PACHELLE/HSUS concerns were not for the "best interest of the public".. Their concern was for the fact that IF THE PUBLIC WAS AWARE OF HOW MANY OF THESE ANIMALS WERE BEING ABANDONED BY THE HSUS AS A RESULT OF THESE WELL PUBLICIZED/LIFE SAVING PUPPY MILL RAIDS" THAT THE PUBLIC WOULD STOP DONATING!. Thats the real truth.. Does ANY of these sound like the "open book policy" of an ETHICAL animal rights organization/rescue group? Doesn't the public who donates in EXCESS of 100MILLION dollars a year have the LEGAL RIGHT to know EVERY ACTION of that group/their agenda/how their money is being spent? More importantly does ANY of this inspire any confidence in what MAY be the agenda of this group in passing laws that have no boundaries/gives the HSUS, ASPCA and the USGov UNTETERED access to your home and property.. It doesn't set MY mind to ease at all! Any RESCUE GROUP/ACTIVIST who have gone out of their way to lie about their kill stats, their agenda and other actions to the degree that these groups have gone to to "coverup" their actions while stating to the US DONATING PUBLIC that it is NOT OUR BUSINESS how they spend our money and WE DO NOT NEED TO KNOW how many animals that they are accountable for the death of, does NOT inspire ANY confidence in ME AT ALL...

(Report Comment)
Aimie Ruth October 1, 2010 | 12:48 p.m.

Wow Helen I actually feel dumber after reading your nonsense. It also amuses me how you use the word Vegan almost in a derogatory manner. Are you trying to give them a bad name just like puppy mills have a bad name? I agree that all animals even the ones you people eat should be treated with kindness and love. I hope most of your are reincarnated into what you slaughter.
Its all about secret agendas and how they have not come to light. When I talk to people about prop B I say I hope most of you get shut down and guess what every single person I have spoken to agrees. Fortunately more and more people adopt and know the high kill rates in shelters. They is truly no such thing as a no kill shelter. Health and behavioral reasons will get a any dog put down. Also you people go on and on about no kill shelters, they are a great thing. Except for when they get full, then there is no room for new intakes. Where do you think those pets end up. Don't get me wrong I am all for no kill shelters, but people like you like to keep the population high.
And as far as Chicago having high kill rates, I would like to know what Chicago you would be referring to.
Face it people are waking up and realizing we don't need you anymore. Go find a new line a so called work.
Perhaps Mark can go to Korea and work on a dog farm, where they farm the dogs for meat. Absolutely sick, or go work in the fur trade of where they skin dogs and cats sometimes while they are alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAaJqi3rT...
You would be right at home. But guess what the HSUS, PETA and the ASPCA will be even more on your ass. Cause they are constant;y trying to put and end to this abuse to. Are they wrong for that to?

(Report Comment)
Cassie Morr October 1, 2010 | 12:59 p.m.

Mark Foeckling wrote:
"Then this is what you should be telling people, and this is what the bill should be saying. The title of it should be "Dog Breeder Elimination Act", and it should make it illegal for anyone to breed a dog for profit."

Unfortunately we only get to vote, but I think everyone here who's said they're voting YES on Prop B has made it extremely clear reputable "thoughtful" breeders are wonderful people. It's only the puppy millers who think dogs are in some way comparable to animals we're eventually going to eat, that we find disturbing.

There is absolutely NO COMPARISON between dogs and cattle!!! To even suggest that there is, is completely idiotic!! We EAT! Say that again with me... We EAT! chickens, cows, pigs... etc... and if I felt there were some legitimate threat I'd be forced to become a vegan, I probably wouldn't be voting yes either, but that's just not going to happen!! It would have to be on a whole new ballot that states "cow" or "chicken" in it, not dog or canine and it would require that all Missourians agree that they didn't really like steak that much after all. That's not going to happen either, so all the farmers can rest easy!

Like I said before, any statements of that sort are to distract away from the actual topic and anybody with half a brain, who can read would agree.

Please Vote YES on Prop B if you too, can see the difference between Cattle and Dogs!

(Report Comment)
Helen (not the actress) Hunt October 1, 2010 | 1:11 p.m.

There is such a thing as a #nokill shelter.. In twenty years, I have never euthanized one animals although I am completely aware of the fact that there are EXTREME cases where the animal may need to be euthanized for health reasons.. I have placed every blind, three legged, deaf and hairless dog that I have taken in.. As far as your comment about "giving vegans a bad name". I do not have to do that for them.. They have done a great job of portraying themselves as EXTREMIST on their own.. No sane person would agree with the extremist group PETA.. Of course, most of you vegans, after the fact, have disowned PETA because of the way they have continually murdered enormous numbers of dogs and cats in the name of "ETHICAL" treatment of animals.. As far as your assumptions about #nokill shelters, you see the problem is not that there are NOT homes.. The problem is there are no RESOURCES.. In most cases these animals are killed solely because there is not enough help, food and basic necessities to care for home and rehab these animals for even short periods of time to even give them a chance.. I could only dare to dream of what I could do with the $500,000.00 ayear salary that the ASPCA pays Edwin Sayre.. Thats your donation money at work.. As far as veganism. We all have a choice as to what we CHOOSE to eat. The fact is that the Vegan population only accounts for a minute number of people in this "meat eating society". To get meat, you have to kill animals. Although these extremist groups like PETA don't believe in eating meat, they care little to nothing about killing thousands of dogs and cats every year while sucking up tens of millions of dollars for ETHICAL ANIMAL TREATMENT.. And then have the audacity to try to inflict their "vegan beliefs" on farms and animal lovers? Do YOU see anything "ETHICAL' about killing 97% of the animals that PETA rescued last year? Homing EIGHT DOGS out of nearly 2600? Or how ASPCA and HSUS take in 100-200M bucks a yr and continue to dump ALL (HSUS) or most (ASPCA) of these animals off on HIGH RATE KILL SHELTERS? You want to talk about ANIMAL ABUSE AND ETHICS with these groups track record? You cant be serious.. ITs like you people just dont care that they take your money for rescue and then they dont RESCUE at all.. ALl while showing you these life saving puppy mill raid commericals. It still amazes me..

(Report Comment)
Helen (not the actress) Hunt October 1, 2010 | 1:22 p.m.

NO that is NOT what the bill should be saying.. It should be saying that "IF" you own animals OF ANY KIND, that you are required to follow ALL USDA GUIDELINES for caring for these animals. THATS why we elect OUR officals to make these laws.. Thats what the UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT IS FOR...Thats what your STATE legislators are for.. MY state laws should not be dictated under deceptive practices by groups like the HSUS and APSC who have no concept of how to farm, the daily strength that it takes TO farm and the enormous sacrafice that it takes on the part of these farmers to FEED your faces. Anyone who is allowed to vote on this law should have to work on a farm BEFORE they make an UNINFORMED decision on how a FARMER should do his job.. If you don't have the character and strength that it takes to do this hard work everyday without complaining.. Then YOU should starve to death when you complain about how SOMEONE ELSE is feeding your face... The problem is that MOST of you have no idea of the work that it takes to keep food in the markets and feed you.. I guarantee you...IF YOU LIVED on a farm, grew up working hard everyday of your life like most of these farmers have done, you would just be quite and thankful for once in your life.. You would PRAY for the farmers to have a good year so that the 230,000,000 people in this country could continue to eat.. And that does not include the billions of pounds of food sent to poor starving populations all over the world.. One day you people will get what you want.. One day when this world gets into another war and food is in short supply as in WWI and WWII you will remember all of this complaining.. While you are then on your knees begging God to feed you.. Then I hope you remember THIS moment when you were complaining again and again without realizing what you were doing everytime you come against another farmer putting more and more regulations on them and slowly driving them out of business..

(Report Comment)
Helen (not the actress) Hunt October 1, 2010 | 1:29 p.m.

Also...DO you think that our constitution allows you to write laws that regulate one sector of animal farming that is NOT applicable to all animals? Whether we believe that our dogs are our family or not, they are still animals... I wouldn't trade ANY one of my dogs for most humane beings I know but I still have the mental ability to realize that dogs are still animals.. You can't make laws that infringe on one sector that are not applicable to all others.. They know this when they write these laws.. ANyone with any comprehensive ability at all would know that this is just the first step.. Like I sad.. Do your research..IF YOU CARE ENOUGH.. Look at these three groups, their stock/company ownership..>Read their own statements about how they attent ALL of the board meetings of these "meat producting" companies that they are buying up stock in.. If their agenda is not clear to you as of that point, then you just don't want to see the truth.. I don't make this up.. All info is online...All you have to do is spend a couple of evenings looking it up like I did.. Most of their info is posted all over the net and even on their own sites.. If you care...look it up..

(Report Comment)
Helen (not the actress) Hunt October 1, 2010 | 1:42 p.m.

ALMIEE NUT CASE...And you say VICIOUS things like " I would be right at home and "the HSUS PETA and ASPCA will be on my ASS" like its some kind of threat or something... You see, thats EXACTLY what an EXTREMIST IGNORANT person would say.. You think that your threats have some kind of validity against LAW ABIDING BREEDERS AND CITIZENS WHO ARE REGULATED BY THE USDA AND UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT.. Do you REALLY think that we give a damn about the HSUS and ASPCA? Do you really think that these extremist groups bother us? The truth is coming out more and more every day about their illicit actions.. Why do you think that the HSUS is RIGHT NOW under investigation for "illegal donation campaign tactics" .. I will tell you why.. ITs becasue MORONS like you , who contine to perpetrate lies against legitimate business and farmers have took on predatory tactics to further your EXTREMELY off the wall beliefs.. You think that anything that the HSUS ASPCA AND PETA tells you is some kind of law or something.. You think that because WE have been silent so long that we will continue to live under this scrutiny while you continue to perpetrate lies and misinformation to further your agenda and fraud people out of billions of dollars in the name of rescue while killing TENS OF THOUSANDS of animals.. Thats EXACTLY what these groups have done year after year for decades.. NOW it is time to put a stop to the lies and deception.. Thats what this state will do when they vote this law down.. Because THESE people know the truth.>THESE people grew up on farms.. They KNOW the hard work it takes to keep a farm going and they know that the lies that you and these extremist "animal" groups are telling are just that.. THey are LIES.. You portray farmers, breeders and animal lovers alike as somekind of deviant.. WE know you are lying..THIS STATE knows you are lying..YET FARMERS continue to feed you even while you lie and complain against them... Personally I think ALL of you will deserve EXACTLY what you get when the time comes and you are without food and farms to feed you.. I GUARANTEE you, everytime you pick up a spoon you will remember what I have said.. This country already is going to a really bad rescession. We as a country are already in a downward swirl.. Hard times are coming.. Count on it. And when they get here remember what you did to help put these farmers out of business..

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro October 1, 2010 | 2:07 p.m.

Helen: I do not think that it was any surprise that HSUS came to Columbia and spoke at Cafe Berlin. Most folks in Columbia know the political slant of why HSUS would choose such a gathering spot. Consider the end game here. There will be farms. Government owned and run farms. Control the food supply and you control the people. It starts with a national agency, HSUS, (an agent of the liberal progressive agenda), to pick off and infiltrate state legislatures. The "dog is man's best friend" emotional strategy is a great way to get empathy and support for your communistic end game. Ultimately, governmnet will be our best friend, or our worst enemy. They will position themselves as such.
Do humanity a favor. Vote No on Proposition B.

(Report Comment)
Helen (not the actress) Hunt October 1, 2010 | 2:50 p.m.

Ray_Shapiro ...I agree.. One things for sure...As my grand daddy used to say "I will not surrender my pitchfork until they pry it from my cold dead hands".. I just don't understand why these people don't get a clue.. At some point they have to realize that they are not just hurting dog breeders, good or bad, but they are backing the "makings" of a whole new set of laws that are putting the very livelyhood of the farming industry in this country as a whole in jeopardy. Where do they think that the food on their dinner tables comes from? Its like the old saying goes about "biting the very hand that feeds you".. When will we learn?

(Report Comment)
connie crewse October 1, 2010 | 3:14 p.m.

The reincarnation comments say it all. These people do not even believe in God Almighty, our Heavenly Father that is Creator of ALL. If they did, they would know that there is NO reincarnation. "To be absent from the body, is to be present with the Lord." Anyone that is a true believer, knows there is no such thing as reincarnation.

Now I am very sorrowful for them all, as it all makes sense now. These poor souls have been decieved by the Deciever himself, Satan and with these reincarnation beliefs, it's no wonder that they can not see or recognize any Truth. Truth is of God. You are either for Him or against Him, and if you are against Him, you are completely blind to all Truth and Understanding.

Aimee & Cassie, you have much bigger issues than this Prop B, and I'm truly sorry that you have chosen a False Prophet to listen to. You're hearts may be in the right place for animals, but in the wrong place for God our Father.

So very sorry to finally know who you serve......

(Report Comment)
Helen (not the actress) Hunt October 1, 2010 | 3:37 p.m.

Does anyone have an ACTUAL COPY of PROPOSTION B? Not an online copy from HSUS or ASPCA...An actual COMPLETE copy with WORD FOR WORD content as it will be stated on the BALLOT? Every time I look it up, I can only find the HSUS and ASPCA copies.. They NEVER have complete content ...

(Report Comment)
Helen (not the actress) Hunt October 1, 2010 | 4:59 p.m.

I just have a couple of questions about this part of PROB B. Most local humane societies and city pounds cannot meet these standards.. PARTICULARLY the part to do with the "temperatue in "excess of 85 degress and below 45 degrees" Is this going to be considered to be "animal cruelty" If I go into these shelters and take the temperature at night when most of these CITY/GOVERMENT RAN shelter animals are lying on cold concrete floors in the winter time? Why are CITY AND COUNTY FUNDED SHELTERS NOT BEING INCLUDED IN THIS LAW? Also, I will add this.. I have lived in several areas in this country. I now do animal rescues ALL THE TIME... I would dare to say that at least HALF of the people in my area where I now do rescues would be in jail under these guidelines.. Nearly all of them have "outside dogs". Most of them do good to have a dog house.. Why are individuals and shelters not covered in this law? I can tell you why.. Because if they included INDIVIDUALS and SHELTERS in this cruelty law they would NEVER be able to pass it.. People have a tendency to "care" when it comes to "inflicting" their beliefs as to what is cruel or not on someone else, but when THEY are included or targeted in these laws they sing a litte different song.. They don't mind dictating to "breeders" what they believe to be cruel but the truth is, in most areas, people allow their dogs and animals to roam. I can drive up and down my local road which is a dumping ground for animals and nearly every person within a 5 mile radius has SEVERAL dogs running up and down the road breeding, making babies.. And hardly ONE of them even has a dog house.. I could leave right out of my driveway at take you to half a dozen homes where there are as many as a half dozen or more dogs and not ONE DOG HOUSE on the entire place.. What about THESE PEOPLE? Have you people ever seen how most of these rural area HUMANE SOCIETIES are ran? Have you seen how these animals are housed? For example.. There is one here locally that has outside runs for dogs.. MOST of their animals are left outside in dogs houses.. NOT HEATED OR COOLED...My point is, you people have a strange idea of how you think that one group of people should be treated when most DOG SHELTERS and HUMANE SOCIETIES don't even meet these guidelines.. I know damn well most of the local residents in rural areas dont.. Again, how can you inflict laws on breeders that NO-ONE ELSE , EVEN HUMANE SOCIETIES, can't live up too...Well no-one but the ASPCA anyway..Of course, they take in 100-200MILLION BUCKS a year.. And we all know that the HSUS doesn't even own a dogs shelter.. You see.. its is easy to pass laws that are not applicable to YOU.. Why don't we pass some laws that regulate how the HSUS spends our 100-200 MILLION dollars a year in donation money that they make by lying to the public about how THEY save puppy mill dogs..AN IMPOSSIBLE FEAT when the HSUS doesnt even own ONE DAMN DOG SHELTER.

(Report Comment)
Cody Hobbs October 1, 2010 | 9:26 p.m.

I have yet to figure out why you people i.e. Cassie and Aimee think that the breeders that have the 100 plus dogs do it all by themselves. A lot of dog breeders run their businesses as a family. They do not do it alone. And for one thing until you two come out and work one day in our kennels you should not be saying anything because you have no clue what we, as breeders, do on a daily basis. You set there and claim to know it all and have not one clue about what goes on!!!! The point is SHUT UP if you don't know what you are talking about!!! Vote NOOOO on Proposition B

(Report Comment)
Cassie Morr October 1, 2010 | 9:27 p.m.

Why do I even respond, I ask myself... but OK, Crazy Connie! Me humoring you even just a little bit with your kind of obvious stupidity, means I must be bored.

"You're" is when you-are being stupid and you ARE! "Your" is a possessive like "Your dogs", but not for long at the rate of speed your brain works. You're is when you're (you ARE) losing, but you don't know it yet, because "your soul" is empty.

God is not going to welcome you with open arms when all you think about is YOU!! When you're down here abusing the purest of his creatures, god isn't going to care how much money you might have lost to have just been a little more thoughtful. He's definitely keeping track of those kinds of things!!

I put my family and pets before all my material possessions. I'd rather someone steal my TV then hurt my dogs, even though, long time ago I'd hoped they'd guard our home. Our relationship goes a lot deeper now that I know them and I'd rather lock them all up and take on the intruders myself.

If anyone isn't making it to heaven, it'll be you, Connie, who only looks out for you!!

Vote Yes on Prop B!!

(Report Comment)
Cody Hobbs October 1, 2010 | 9:34 p.m.

In my last post I meant Aimie. Sorry

(Report Comment)
Cassie Morr October 1, 2010 | 9:39 p.m.

I'm with Bob now and in the 21'st century, with spell check, there is no excuse for all these typing errors. I'm not replying to anyone who can't type, so if I ignore you, you're needing a lot of help with your grammar. You're also making your side look like a bunch of uneducated hillbillies without any real excuse, besides being lazy!

(Report Comment)
Cody Hobbs October 1, 2010 | 9:41 p.m.

Well good maybe you will shut up now Cassie!!!

(Report Comment)
Cassie Morr October 1, 2010 | 10:01 p.m.

Still speaking on behalf of the dogs! Even if it's like Dust in the wind!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0zSB2WEt...

(Report Comment)
connie crewse October 1, 2010 | 11:42 p.m.

@ Cassie

Seriously, all you have to whine about is the incorrect usage of my you're/your?.....If I really wanted to, I could go through YOUR posts, and I guarantee you that you have had grammatical errors also......does that make you an uneducated hillbilly also? By the way, the God that I worship is spelled with a Capital 'G'....so what god do you worship? The only God is our Heavenly Father, and He deserves a capital G! I'd rather be an uneducated hillbilly and know and worship the one, true, living God, than to be as sophisticated as you, and take my last breath only to realize that I lived for the wrong 'god'!

By the way, God has also given us dominion over all the animals He created. He created them for us to eat and to enjoy. Back in the Old Testament, God required animals to be sacrificed for the forgiveness of sins. So I'm pretty sure that me raising a few dogs will not offend Him in any way.

Jesus Christ was also a Fisherman....I like to say a Fisher of Men. It's also recorded that He fed a multitude....what did He feed them?.....FISH! Now, you may eat fish, but I'm pretty sure that Aimee probably doesn't. HSUS is TOTALLY against fishing, and eating them too. If it's good enough for my Saviour, then it's good enough for me. Anyone that says the opposite, IS the enemy.

The HSUS is deceiving people just like Satan does, and has done, since the beginning of time. What the good people on here are trying to tell you is that the HSUS is lying to you and everyone else in the world. We speak the truth, and you reject it. They speak the lies, and you embrace it. God sent His one and only Son, and the world rejected Him. It's sad, but the weak always go for the lies, and the stronger ones will stick to the Truth.....it's a much harder path, but it's well worth the reward in the end. Call me any name you wish, but I know that I am doing no wrong, same as these other folks on here that raise dogs.

Did you also know that if you research enough on these groups such as HSUS, that they are traced back to Satan Worshipping?.......Why on earth would ANYONE believe, let alone, support these groups? They even smell smokey to me! I wouldn't stand by them at all, to me it's almost the same as accepting the mark of the beast!

VOTE NO on PROP B and keep our GOD given CONSTITUTIONAL, AMERICAN RIGHTS!

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro October 1, 2010 | 11:53 p.m.

("Vote NO on Proposition B Meeting, at Coach's Pizza World, Tuesday, October 12 7:00 PM, 112 South Washington St. Mexico, Mo. Our Guest Speaker is Cathy Griesbauer with the Professional Pet Assoc. of Montgomery City.")
http://www.teapartypatriots.org/BlogPost...

(Report Comment)
connie crewse October 1, 2010 | 11:57 p.m.

@ Cassie

Just for the record, if my mistake on using YOUR/YOU'RE is making 'our' side look bad.....than what my dear is Lacinda Florez doing to your side?....

You are not going to respond to people that can not type or use proper grammer?.....But yet you gush all over yourself and respond to Lacinda, which, can't spell or type very well at all....poor thing. I am embarrassed for her! You didn't see me make fun of her poor spelling did you? Why? Because that is not what makes a person. It's how they treat other people that makes them a good person or not. You have been nothing but mean spirited on here, and have shown YOUR true colors, and the colors are fading fast.

I hope that you aren't teaching YOUR children to be so judgemental to all walks of life, like you are. That is what is wrong with the world today. Too many people thinking they are 'superior' to others, when you will stink the same as everyone else when you die and decompose. It's funny how life can humble some when they get to thinking how much better they are than others.......I'd be careful if I was you, because sometimes those life lessons are very dreadful and sad.

(Report Comment)
connie crewse October 2, 2010 | 12:09 a.m.

BENEFIT RALLY!! VOTE NO on PROP B

Location: Mtn Grove Event Center
Time: 5:30
Date: 10-2-10
Remington 308 to be raffled off-ticket donations sold there. $5 dinner plate-Pulled Pork/chips/drink. Local businesses have donated items along with a pie auction. ALL donations will go towards defeating PROP B!

Guest Speakers:
Karen Strange-president & lobbyist/MoFed
Leslie Holloway-Farm Bureau

We expect a great turn out, and a lot of fun! Come and get informed on what Prop B will REALLY do to Missouri and it's already struggling, economic state. If you can not come, you can still help in this fight and make a donation by going on www.thealliancefortruth.com No donation is too small or too big! It takes money to get the word out, so open up YOUR wallets and give as much as you can!!

VOTE NO on Prop B!

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro October 2, 2010 | 12:31 a.m.

("This from Anita Andrews with The Alliance for Truth:

The biggest and most dangerous part of this bill is that it limits breeders to 50 dogs.

On the surface, people knowing nothing of animal agriculture will say, “That’s too many dogs for them to have anyway. No one should have that many dogs.”

That’s exactly what the animal rights activists are counting on.

In truth, the government has no right to determine the amount of business anyone does. It doesn’t matter if the business is animals or cars.

This is equalization and communism at its best. Once the principle of limiting sales is implemented, it can be applied to any industry.

Now, the animal activists may not care too much about the number of cars that are sold, but they do care about abolishing the food industry – all pork, chicken, beef, etc. Once they have set precedents that the government can and should limit the production of a business, they will simply demand that it be applied to all animals. After all, why should we say that it is too difficult to have 51 dogs but it’s not too difficult to have 51 cows or 51 chickens?

We have hundreds of thousands of farmers throughout the country that would shut down shop and either move their food operations overseas or join the other 10%+ looking for work because they could not possibly stay in business with the limited number of animals.

If this happens, which of course it will if Prop B passes, only the very rich will be able to afford meat, thus “equalizing” all industries and people, and leaving only the government to obtain the wealth that the rest of us have enjoyed for so many centuries.

The government’s over-regulation of business is a primary factor in the high unemployment rates and the harsh economic times that we are facing. While the left tries to blame the financial meltdown on the principles of capitalism, any thinking person who has studied American history understands that the unprecedented prosperity that we have enjoyed in this country since its founding would not have been possible had the free markets been strangled as they are today. Business needs less government intervention, not more.

Every ounce of liberty that we allow to be taken from us will have monumental effects for our future. Groups like HSUS count on us underestimating the importance of these issues and sitting out the elections. We must work to restore the liberties that our founders believed in.")

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro October 2, 2010 | 12:35 a.m.

("Below you will see a comparison of current Missouri law and Proposition B. What you will find is that most of what is included in Prop B is already required by Missouri law. In fact, some regulations would actually be lightened with the passage of Prop B.
Don’t be fooled by the leftist agenda of HSUS...")
http://www.box.net/shared/7j22ho66o9

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro October 2, 2010 | 12:38 a.m.

Learn the Truth about Prop B:
http://www.restoringprinciples.com/2010/...

(Report Comment)
Cassie Morr October 2, 2010 | 6:24 a.m.

How do all you puppy millers feel about human trafficking and child labor? They're just trying to make a living too! Why should all us "do right" citizens go getting involved in any business decisions that are equally unethical and immoral?

You're no different than most criminals, not wanting to get caught.

Vote YES on Prop B

(Report Comment)
Helen (not the actress) Hunt October 2, 2010 | 8:12 a.m.

Your not a criminal when FARMING AND BREEDING IS NOT AGAINST THE LAW.. You are an EXTREMIST and a TERRORIST when you are trying to destroy VIABLE BUSINESS AND FARMS who are the very essence and back bone of what has helped to feed and form this nation. Thats why they are calling groups like PETA and HSUS TERRORIST online. Terrorist who are shaping the minds of the ignorant and uniformed. People who have no idea of how to farm or the necessity that farming plays in their own lives.. AND AIMEE RUTH.. You didn't have to tell me that you were a WITCH. Call it WICCAN to make it sound "prettier" if you want, but in all essence thats what it means...IT MEANS YOU ARE A WTICH.. An entity and follower of satanic ritual....I can smell the handiwork of the devil and evil from a mile off... So go ahead and try to cast your devilish spells on this nation.. There are real Godly people who are not afraid of you and your extremist groups who worship the devil and do his handiwork.. We all know that you are out to do nothing but destroy this nation...You know that nearly EVERYONE THAT I HAVE SPOKEN TO in the last several months on here that are backing the HSUS ASPCA and PETA, when the truth has come out, they have told me that they were some kind of vegan, wiccan or a person of one of these SOCIALLY UNACCEPTABLE/EXTREMIST MINDSET..... PEOPLE OF MISSOUR, I KNOW THAT YOU ARE A GOOD LOVING PEOPLE.. I am TELLING YOU FOR YOUR OWN GOOD...These people are NOT what they seem to be whether you believe in God or not.. These people are extremist who have warped views and are out to destroy our farms and meat producing industry...HAVENT YOU BEEN READING THEIR COMMENTS! YOU HAVE GOT TO VOTE AGAINST THIS ONSLAUGHT against our nation and farming industry. You have to make the right choice for the sake of this nation and the farming industry as a whole...Don't be fooled by these immoral, corrupt organizations. VOTE NO ON PROPOSITION B... GO research PACHELLE and SAYRE...Look into their previous statements about animals.. BOTH of them "preach" against owning pets and animals".. PLEASE, for your own sake and the sake of this nation..>DO YOUR DUTY AND RESEARCH... There are things at work here that are not apparent... If you take the time to research, their goals, hidden agendas and deception will be apparent.. GOD BLESS THE USA and THE VOTING PEOPLE OF MISSOURI... VOTE NO ON PROPOSITION B!

(Report Comment)
Helen (not the actress) Hunt October 2, 2010 | 8:23 a.m.

YOU'RE ok.... JUST listen to the message... Ignorance is not relayed in typos and mis-spelling.. You are become ignorant when you don't listen to the message.. If the only message you get is a grammatical one, then you failed to be perceptive and the message was a waste of time...

VOTE NO ON PROP B...... BEFORE THE HSUS ASPCA PETA AND THESE EXTREMIST GROUPS DESTROY OUR FARMS! REMEMBER WHO FEEDS YOU! RESEARCH... ANY REAL LEGAL REPRESENTATIVE CAN TELL YOU THAT THIS LAW HAS FAR REACHING IMPLICATIONS.. This law will impact every farm and farming law in your state.. Can your state and this country afford to loose any more farms? Most of us can barely afford grocery prices now.. CAN YOU AFFORD TO TAKE A CHANCE ON THESE EXTREMIST GROUPS WITHOUT RESEARCHING FIRST? ... PLEASE get online...Spend this time before the election to RESEACH THE HSUS ..RESEARCH WAYNE PACHELLE, RESEARCH THEIR TIES TO PETA AND VEGANISM... THE TRUTH WILL BECOME APPARENT TO YOU!... MAYBE THESE LINKS WILL HELP...PLEASE TAKE TIME TO READ THEM IN THEIR ENTIRITY IF YOU WANT TO KNOW THE TRUTH ABOUT THE HSUS ASPCA AND THEIR AGENDAS...

FORWARD THIS GOOD READING! (ASPCA PETA HSUS) #nokill TO OBAMA, BIDEN EACH AND EVERY SENATOR, (cont) http://tl.gd/3668o7

ASPCA PETA HSUS.. Animal rescue or BIG BUSINESS? http://tl.gd/63aeok CK OUT THIS SERIES OF LINKS BEFORE YOU DONATE

(Report Comment)
Helen (not the actress) Hunt October 2, 2010 | 9:23 a.m.

AIMIE RUTH... Let me say this.. IF you think that you are giving credibility in your argument FOR PRO PROPOSITON B and your backing of these extremist groups like PETA and the HSUS and by telling everyone that you are a WICCAN VEGAN or VEGAN WICCAN which ever the case may be, let me tell you this.. YOU ARE WRONG.. You are going to find out very quickly that this IS the BIBLE BELT.. This IS a farming state.. You will also find that no matter how you and your extremist backed groups try to portray these people, WE all know the truth that you are being nothing more than deceptive and deceitful...Thats how the devil works.. And in all essence, you have been deceived...If you think that these people don't know what you and these extremist are up too, then you are sadly mistaken.. Anyone who does care enough to be voting, i am sure has researched PACHELLE , SAYRE and their ties to PETA and veganism. We all know how they have commented about their UNCONCERN for animals and how they have used these RAIDS ON FARMS to pull in public sympathy while backing their extremist agendas.. All you have to do as look at the HSUS and ASPCA as a whole, their tactics, their holdings/how they are buying stock in meat producing farms and industries while trying to drive them out of business.. They have make their AGENDAS ABUNDANTLY CLEAR... There is no hiding it at this point.. AN ETHICAL RESCUE GROUP who REALLY gave a damn about animals would not employ deceit to further their agendas... Nor would they be using our hundreds of millions of dollars to buy realestate, pay themselves hundreds of thousands of dollars year in salaries or buy TWENTY MILLION DOLLARS in pension plays that I might add EXCLUDE MOST OF THE REAL WORKERS IN THE ASPCA>. .RESERACH THAT.. These pension plans for the most part ONLY INCLUDE THE BIG DOGS... NOT THE REAL animal rescuers that work day in and day out through torrent weather to save animals.. LOOK THAT UP!.. Wiccan, VEGAN, what ever you are, WHATEVER your deceptive agendas are, WE WON'T stand for it.. You will see that on election day.. People know what you are up to.. .Just look at what happened recently in the Carolinas and I believe it was West Virgina when the last ONSLAUGHT BY THE HSUS AND ASPCA was voted down.. The senators even stated that they KNEW THAT THIS WAS JUST THE FIRST STEP BY THE HSUS AND ASPCA to go after the meat industry in this country.. .OUR LEGISLATORS ARE FINALLY LISTENING...THEY KNOW you are a lie.. And we know what you are up too...

VOTE NO ON PROPOSTION B!....SPREAD THE WORD...GET THE TRUTH OUT PEOPLE.....-

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro October 2, 2010 | 9:49 a.m.

("While the HSUS may publicize more moderate positions with respect to animal cruelty in general, which welfarists like myself support, they also oppose all pet breeding, lab animal use, feline trap-neuter-return programs and animal product consumption.

Furthermore and most egregiously from the small-animal vet’s perspective, they reject the agenda of no-kill shelters in actively seeking better ways to save the lives of homeless animals, despite the recent success of many well-run municipal facilities in achieving these previously unrealized goals.

In fact, they actively support the principle that animals might be better served through euthanasia than placed in homes where their suffering and servitude might be exacerbated.

You may be surprised to hear that HSUS opposes the very existence of no-kill shelters and that PeTA shelters euthanized 97 percent of their charges in 2006 (by their own count). Compare that to the 34 percent average euthanasia rate in shelters nationwide and it becomes clear that PeTA and HSUS are not the blanket defenders of animals we may have expected.

Moreover, the HSUS has gone to great lengths to distinguish itself from the militancy of PeTA, but nonetheless defends the same hard-line agenda—albeit without the violence and lawless behavior. It seeks its goals more insidiously through under-the-radar political activities, primarily because it still serves moderate and militant wings of both pro-animal movements in the U.S. through its broad agenda.

While it courts dollars from its largely moderate welfarist base, the HSUS continues to promote its rightist agenda disingenuously. This approach has earned Pacelle the “wolf in sheep’s clothing” reputation among conventional animal-welfare organizations.")
http://www.veterinarypracticenews.com/ve...

(Report Comment)
Helen (not the actress) Hunt October 2, 2010 | 11:02 a.m.

It is more apparent everyday as to what the stance of the HSUS is AGAINST the #nokill movement.. In recent years they have made it their goal to attack #nokill sanctuaries and rescues across this country while portraying them as animal hoarders.. Just recently they against shut down a new and up coming rescue group out west that had been in operation for less than five years.. ANother in Clarksdale mississippi a few months back.. People think that the HSUS is somehow out to help these groups. They are not. They are furthering their agenda.. By that I mean, they are taking these animals, while televising them, while portraying themselves as the "saviors" of these hoarding and puppy mills/breeders when all reality it is a complete falsehood.. They are NOT saving these animals. How can they when the HSUS doesn't even own a dog shelter. If you take the time and follow the aftermath of these raids, the majority of them are being sent to CITY POUNDS or as the politically correct like to call them HUMANE SOCIETIES.. These dogs are being abandoned in large city shelters that are already overcrowded and cant care for the animals they already have.. COUNTLESS of these RESCUED ANIMALS are being euthanized.. These LIFE SAVING PUPPY MILL RAIDS ARE NO MORE THAN DONATION SCAMS.. The public has been lied to by the HSUS, the ASPCA and PETA all three. The end result of these raids and rescues MOST OF THE TIME, is death for these animals..Again, I ASKED Sarah of the HSUS ONLINE ON TWITTER IN A PUBLIC FORUM as to how many of these animals were euthanize.. SHE STATED TO ME SHE DID NOT KNOW but she could look into it for me.. LATER in the same conversation she recanted while stating "IT IS NOT THE HSUS'S RESPONSIBLITY AS TO HOW MANY OF THESE ANIMALS ARE EUTHANIZED ONCE THE HSUS LEAVES THEM WITH THESE SHELTERS".. If YOU dont call that DONATION fraud, there IS no donation fraud.. PACHELLE later stated that "IT WAS NOT IN THE PUBLICS BEST INTEREST TO KNOW HOW MANY OF THESE ANIMALS WERE EUTHANZIED/THE PUBLIC DID NOT NEED TO KNOW".. Hows THAT for deceptive practices? These groups have used these RAIDS and farm pillages for YEARS to further their agendas. .. cont

(Report Comment)
Helen (not the actress) Hunt October 2, 2010 | 11:15 a.m.

Do you know why the HSUS ASPCA and PETA were oPENLY against OREOS LAW? Think about it.. Its because they would NOT be able to euthanize or allow the killing of these rescue animals if that #nokill law passed.. They would have to allow OTHER rescue groups to take dogs like OREO if they so desired.. This would show utter incompetence and uncaring on the part of these rescue groups and people WOULD KNOW THE TRUTH ABOUT HOW MANY OF THESE ANIMALS WERE BEING KILLED.. How can ANYONE truth groups who are operating under these circumstances while lying to the public and staing things like PACHELLE recently stated that "it wasn't anyones business what the HSUS did with donation money that HSUS is PRIVATE group and they could spend the money as they see fit".. That is NOT verbaium but you can look it up.. These statements said to me that the HSUS could do anything they want with that money and there is NO ONE, not even the government who can do or say anything about it..I could NOT believe that SARAH, HSUS spokesperson, had the audacity to state that the HSUS WAS NOT RESPONSIBILITY AS TO WHAT HAPPENED TO THESE RAID DOGS.. IF its not the HSUS responsibility as to how many of these animals are being killed, Well who the hecks responsiblity is it.. THE HSUS AND ASPCA are the ones who have made BILLIONS of dollars off of these raid commericals while proclaiming themselves as PUPPY MILL DOG SAVIORS, and then to have the audacity to abandon these animals in already overcrowded city shelters.. According to one online stat, The HSUS has taken in over 10,000,000,000.000 TEN BILLION dollars (low estimate) in their existence. IN that time, the HSUS has stolen THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of animals from farmers in the name of rescue and in that time has never built ONE DOG SHELTER with those billions of dollars.. DOES ANYONE BESIDES ME SEE ANYTING WRONG WITH THAT PICTURE? If that is NOT donation fraud, deceitful and purely just lying to the public then nothing is... Do you REALLY trust a RESCUE group whose mere existence has been one of utter lies and deception..You had better think HARD before you vote..

VOTE NO ON PROPOSITION B.... THIS IS NOT a "HUMANE ANIMAL LAW"... This is an attack of the farming industry in your state!... READ THIS! http://tl.gd/3668o7

(Report Comment)
connie crewse October 2, 2010 | 11:25 a.m.

@ Aimee Ruth

Keep posting please! YOU'RE helping shed light on these groups that I could NEVER do on my own!!! Keep up the good work! You are a prime example of what HSUS stands for, and hopefully Cassie will see the truth as well, before it's too late! She actually cares about the dogs, whereas you are just pure evil, just like the HSUS and the others that want to push God out of our Country!

Why are there so many shootings and other violent related crimes being committed in our schools? Because ONE atheist threw a fit and didn't want prayer in our schools! When you take God Almighty out of our schools, courts, families, and then YOUR heart.....this is what you get....EVIL in it's most raw form!

I'm so glad to serve a God that is just and true, and one day you WILL tremble and fall on YOUR knees and confess that HE IS GOD!.....You may mock Him now, but you'll suffer for Eternity in Hell with all the other Demons!

Now is the time for Christians to wake up from their slumber and take back America from these Evil doers!
It's like Ray stated, and I believe I may have said it also in another post....Wayne is nothing but a "Wolf in Sheep's clothing"!......Another one of God's warnings to His people!

Wake up Christians and stand up for God!

VOTE NO on PROP B and save our Blessed Nation from anymore of these anti-God and anti-American groups...HSUS!!

(Report Comment)
Aimie Ruth October 2, 2010 | 12:35 p.m.

Hahaha, its very funny to me that you people tell the yes voters that we don't know what we are talking about and we are extremists. Look at you talking about a belief that you know nothing about, Wicca has nothing to do with devil and petty people like you crack me up when you assume it does. So now this poll had been turned into a religious cult, cute.
You people keep stating that you don't understand why shelters are not included, I will say it again.
Shelters are temporary for these animals, You people expect your cages to be a home for years. Problem with some not all no kill shelters is that they become to full and will have the same dogs there for more than a short time. This in essence is the same thing you people are or if you will hoarding. Sometimes death is the most humane thing that can be done, it ends alot of suffering.
Evil as i may be I have an undying love for animals of all species. Animals have more a right to be here than most of the human equation. They are true spirits.
And by the way I am not vegan, I do eat eggs and drink milk. Now before you use that against me that I need your farms. I do not, I consume only USDA Organic and I know for a fact that most these farms if any do not lay in Missouri. I make my own choices in what to believe, I do not have to be told by anyone.
So if you people want to make this about religion thats fine. You will simply amuse me further.
Vote Yes on Prop B. And stop the abuse, repeatedly on this board you can see the people voting no view dogs as nothing more than a way of life. They farm them in their minds and put alot of hard work into making these poor innocent creatures lives miserable. VOTE YES, its time for some change.

(Report Comment)
Helen (not the actress) Hunt October 2, 2010 | 12:45 p.m.

You dont even know what "god" you believe in... SO I will enlighten you..
So yes my dear.. .YOU ARE A WITCH by defitinion even if you DON'T know it...

.Wicca (pronounced [ˈwɪkə]) is a Neopagan religion and a form of modern witchcraft. Often referred to as Witchcraft or the Craft,[1] its adherents are commonly referred to as Wiccans, or as Witches or Crafters. Developing in England in the first half of the twentieth century,[2] Wicca was popularised in the 1950s and early 1960s by a Wiccan High Priest named Gerald Gardner, who at the time called it the "witch cult" and "witchcraft", and its adherents "the Wica".[3] From the 1960s onward the name of the religion was normalised to "Wicca".[4]

Wicca is typically a duotheistic religion, worshipping a Goddess and a God, who are traditionally viewed as the Triple Goddess and Horned God. These two deities are often viewed as being facets of a greater pantheistic Godhead, and as manifesting themselves as various polytheistic deities. Nonetheless, there are also other theological positions within the Craft, ranging from monotheism to atheism. Wicca also involves the ritual practice of magic, largely influenced by the ceremonial magic of previous centuries, often in conjunction with a liberal code of morality known as the Wiccan Rede, although this is not adhered to by all Witches. Another characteristic of the Craft is the celebration of seasonally based festivals known as Sabbats, of which there are usually eight in number annually.

There are various different denominations within Witchcraft, which are referred to as traditions. Some, such as Gardnerian and Alexandrian Wicca, follow in the initiatory lineage of Gardner; these are often collectively termed British Traditional Wicca, and many of their practitioners consider the term "Wicca" to apply only to these lineaged traditions. Others, such as Cochrane's Craft, Feri and the Dianic tradition, take primary influence from other figures and may not insist on any initiatory lineage. Some of these do not use the term "Wicca" at all, instead preferring to be referred to only as "Witchcraft", while others believe that all traditions can be considered "Wiccan".[5][6]

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro October 2, 2010 | 1:52 p.m.

I wonder how many Pagans will vote for this Proposition and how many Pagans will vote against it?
How many Pagans even vote, in Missouri?

As for me. I'm voting No on proposition B, primarily because I'm Druish. (I know I'm Druish as I have a family tree.) Few people know this, as I don't even look Druish. Druish people believe that you just don't mess around with plants and animals. Especially with dogwoods, shellfish, and burning bushes.
("Denied: Wiccans and the military")
http://www.columbiamissourian.com/storie...

(Report Comment)
Bob Carlson October 2, 2010 | 1:55 p.m.

Oh, yikes, i somehow KNEW that this would degenerate into "Bible-believing Xtians" against everybody else; that's why i've stayed out of the discussion for a while. i don't know Wayne, but it's "Pacelle," not "Pachelle." i hope you guys go work for the FBI, and waste time looking for Bob Cahrlson. You are TWITS. It's Gandhi's birthday. Mellow out. I was raised Catholic, and for some of you that's as bad as being a Jew or a Commie. I didn't leave anything behind, i just expanded my view, so i've been a Taoist for a long time (not a religion, but a philosophy of life). Wiccans say "my Goddess gave birth to your God," and organized religion swept Asherah, Yahweh's wife, under the rug a long time ago when they wanted to subjugate women. You gals who go for this "God the FATHER" trip are pointing the gun at your own heads. The Goddess is mother to us all, nurturing, etc., the earth, plants, the secrets of growth, and the Horned God is the patron of wildlife and the forests, and of HUNTING. The animals are his domain, which is why we who eat meat thank the powers of nature for that gift. it's all just a way of looking at and dealing with powers beyond our control! dummies. if all you can do is look for the "devil" in everything, you'll find him everywhere, starting with the bathroom mirror in the morning. Judge not, ya morons. it's really simple...BE NICE to everybody, including the critters, ESPECIALLY the critters, and when your Judgement Day comes along, and they ask "well, was s/he NICE?" you'll be able to say YES.

(Report Comment)
Helen (not the actress) Hunt October 2, 2010 | 2:14 p.m.

There will always be a war both spiritual and non-spiritual between religious factions and paganistic religions of the world. There has been and apparently always will be casualties in that war. Intelligent Human beings should never allow themselves to be manipulated by groups like these whose goals are to destroy the farming industry of our nation. A VITAL part of our economy. This country is being torn apart piece by piece, morally, politically, religously and financially by the powers that be whether they are religious factions, unethical government officals or private groups like the HSUS, ASPCA and PETA who have only ONE GOAL. Im my opinion they have made that agenda pretty clear in their campaigns against the farming industry, their vegan campaigns against the meat industry, as well as in the usage of their fraudulent donation campaigns to gain funding and backing by people who have no better sense than to keep signing every petition that the HSUS ASPCA and PETA pass out without knowing the consequences and repercussion of their actions on the farming industry as a whole.. Unless this entire nation intends on becoming completely Vegan when all is said and done, they had better start researching the leader heads of these groups, their goals and agendas.. Sayre and Pachelle both have made it ABUNDANTLY clear as to what their feelings are regarding animal farming and the meat industry.. Peta goes without saying.. They are "wide open" in their public displays and harrasment of the meat and meat farming industry...

VOTE NO ON PROPOSTION B!

(Report Comment)
Bob Carlson October 2, 2010 | 2:28 p.m.

i somehow KNEW this would turn into "Bible-believing Xtians" against everybody else; that's why i've absented myself from the discussion for a while. i was raised Catholic, which to you twits is as bad as being a Jew or a Commie, but i haven't left my traditions behind, just expanded upon them. St. Francis is my paragon. i've been a Taoist for a long time, which is a philosophy of life rather than a religion. But Wicca says "my Goddess gave birth to your God." Religion has always been our attempt to explain forces we can't fully grasp. The Goddess is nurturing, representing soil, plants, and the promise of new crops to come next year. The Horned God represents animal life and the forests, and those of us who eat meat give thanks for the gift. It's the human need for ritual. You didn't put horns on the devil until you tried to stamp out nature religions. Organized Judeo-Xtian religion swept Asherah under the rug (that's Yahweh's wife) when it started subjugating women, and you gals who keep touting Ghod the FATHER are just pointing the gun at your own heads.
If you wanna see the devil everywhere, you WILL...it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Start with the bathroom mirror in the morning. When your "Judgement Day" comes, they'll just ask if you were NICE, especially to critters. I hope you can say YES. (and, btw, never met the man, but it's Wayne "Pacelle," not "Pachelle." i hope you all get FBI jobs and are assigned to look for Bob Cahrlson.) Today is Gandhi's birthday...quit snipping and just be NICE for a change. It's not all that much to ask...

(Report Comment)
Helen (not the actress) Hunt October 2, 2010 | 2:30 p.m.

And thankfully, "Bible believing x-tians" as you put it are the majority that DO vote in this country. And I am even more thankful that the majority does not believe in a mythical being that supposed gave birth to "our God" as you put it, although I do agree people do look for the "devil" in everything, thankfully. In this day and time if would be STUPID if we didn't.. And as far as the wicca/devil aspect.. A "wiccan" by defintion IS a witch.. Although I will not quote what the bible says about the evils of the "witchcraft".. IT is here no there to me.. I was just stating that these people, who are vegan by description, have but one goal.. THAT GOAL is to deregulate and harm the animal farming industry as a whole. I think we all know that. If you haven't figured it out by now then you apparently have not been watching for long.. Pacelle (not Pachelle) and the other leaders of these "animal rights groups" have made that more than clear both verbally and in their actions.. All you have to do is look.. Most people already know it.. They either don't care, may be vegan or are just not literate enough to understand what is going on behind the scenes..

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro October 2, 2010 | 2:43 p.m.

Bob Carlson said:
("Oh, yikes, i somehow KNEW that this would degenerate into "Bible-believing Xtians")

Who you calling a degenerate?
I recall Cassie Morr jumping up and down declaring this Proposition B issue as having nothing to do with politics.
I think it's now a given that secular, lefty liberal progressive progs have alot invested in the agenda of PETA and HSUS.
And now we can evaluate just how Christian family values, government interference and religious beliefs impact our opinion of HSUS and PETA's endgame via Proposition B.

(Report Comment)
Ellis Smith October 2, 2010 | 2:53 p.m.

All of you guys, regardless of which side of the issue you happen to be on, have really managed to alter my sleep patterns.

Before all this business about Proposition B when I slept I dreamed about driving a Maserati or a vintage Mercedes-Benz 300SL coup or Shelby Cobra, or diving at the Caribbean reef in Belize.

Now all I ever see in my dreams is cute puppies and kittens. Nice, but I liked the Maserati better. :-)

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro October 2, 2010 | 3:16 p.m.

Ellis:
What's Mahatma with you?
Tonight, I'll probably dream of a visit from the birthday boy, sitting on my kitchen floor, eating cake for breakfast in his underwear ...

(Report Comment)
Ellis Smith October 2, 2010 | 3:44 p.m.

@ Ray

Nice, but I'd rather have the Maserati. I'm not much on animals. I like to see horses prancing around in a field, but I'll take all my "horses" under an automobile hood, except of course for Porsche 911s, where they're installed in the rear.

There was something else I used to dream about when I was younger, but I can't remember what it was. It's hell to grow old (but the alternative isn't pleasant either).

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro October 2, 2010 | 4:21 p.m.

So would he:
http://www.brandsonsale.com/pfr-46610.ht...

And as for horses:
http://images.celebrateexpress.com/mgen/...

In any case, pleasant dreams.

(Report Comment)
Helen (not the actress) Hunt October 2, 2010 | 5:08 p.m.

No one has anything to gain by the passage of this bill except for the HSUS and ASPCA.. You see it is easy for the HSUS to back laws that regulate someone else. That in itself is pathetic when you think about the HSUS, their donation tactics, their over 50 years of frauding people out of money in the name of rescue while they have reckless raided and pillage farms, rescue groups and DOG BREEDERS alike.. ALL IN THE NAME OF RESCUE. They have grown so enormous in "size" that RIGHT NOW they are planning to build yet ANOTHER 300,000 THOUSAAAAAND square foot office complex on their 1000 ACRE "complex". They have in the last year, according to statements I have read on sites investigating the HSUS, applied for permits to build between 250-300 HOMES on this property, and according to what I have read, they are to be used for "employee housing/perkss".. HSUS now employs 25 FULLTIME "HIGH SALARIED" attornies. And you wonder how they get away with this "raiding and pillaging" of farms?. How can the average farmer and pet owner protect themselves against preddatory groups who at the "crime scene" are allowed to go in onto PRIVATE PROPERTY, GATHER STATE EVIDENCE, SEIZE animals, FILM THE WHOLE THING FOR COMMERICALS/PROFIT and then the LAW has the AUDIACITY to allow these PROFITING groups to testify against the accused.. THE SAME PEOPLE that the HSUS JUST gathered """STATE"""" evidence against.. I don't know about you guys, but does ANYTHING about that sound legal OR ETHICAL to you? The same people that gathered the evidence, STOLE THE PEOPLES PROPERTY, FILMED THE RAID THAT BRINGS IN THE BILLIONS OF DONATION DOLLARS, are the SAME PEOPLE TESTIFING AGAINST THE ACCUSED? HELLO??? ANY ATTORNEY WANT TO ANSWSER THIS ONE? Can this be LEGAL OR ETHICAL? The ASPCA and HSUS both have a form that they supply the LAW with that they have the "accused" to sign during this onslaught that relieves the HSUS and ASPCA of any legal liability AFTER THE FACT.. Meaning IF you sign this paper, they HSUS and ASPCA cant take your animals and the form goes on to say, that "they can do with they as they see fit, even if that means euthanization"..IT also states that YOU or YOUR FAMILY CANNOT SUE THE ASPCA OR HSUS or get your animals back unless THEY give them back.. IVE GOT A COPY OF THIS FORM.. HELLO????ANY ATTORNIES WANT TO WEIGH IN ON THIS BLACKMAIL?

(Report Comment)
Helen (not the actress) Hunt October 2, 2010 | 5:10 p.m.

PLEASE FORGIVE THE MANY TYPOS...I didn't proof read..

(Report Comment)
John Schultz October 3, 2010 | 12:28 a.m.

What about the excessive capitalization? OR WAS THAT SOMETHING IMPORTANT???????

(Report Comment)
Ruth Elledge October 3, 2010 | 6:03 a.m.

Hmmm.....true?

"Missouri puppy mills may owe millions in unpaid sales taxes

(Sept. 23, 2010) – A coalition of dog protection advocates has presented the Missouri Department of Revenue with evidence of potential tax fraud in Missouri’s puppy mill industry, and requested an industry-wide investigation into a possible tax-evasion scheme that could be costing the people of Missouri several million dollars a year in lost revenue.

An investigation of Missouri puppy mills revealed that many of the facilities – some of which have more than 100 adult dogs on site – were not collecting sales tax on retail dog purchases, a clear violation of the Missouri tax code. The 11 large-scale puppy mills identified in the investigation may owe the state Department of Revenue more than $70,000 between them in sales tax annually. When this level of non-compliance is multiplied by the number of sales made by the 1,568 state-licensed commercial breeders and dealers in the state, it appears the state could be losing several million dollars a year to unscrupulous puppy dealers.

Proposition B, on Missouri’s statewide ballot for the November election, will stop puppy mill abuses by establishing common-sense standards for the care of dogs in Missouri.

“The puppy mill industry has repeatedly shown a shocking level of disregard for the laws of this state,” said Barbara Schmitz, manager of the YES! on Prop B campaign. “It seems animals are not the only victims of this industry’s greed – Missouri taxpayers are being fleeced as well. It’s time to pass Prop B to hold the large-scale puppy mills accountable.”

All 11 of the commercial puppy mills sampled also have long histories of violating current animal welfare standards, as documented in both federal and state inspection reports. Several of these facilities have been cited for allowing their dogs to live in their own waste without access to clean food and water, as well as for egregious veterinary care violations. Thus, not only are they depriving the animals in their care of the humane treatment they deserve, but these commercial breeders are also depriving the citizens of Missouri of much-needed funds during this tough economy.

(cont)

(Report Comment)
Ruth Elledge October 3, 2010 | 6:03 a.m.

......The problem of tax evasion by puppy mills is not unique to Missouri. Last year, an investigation by the Indiana attorney general’s revenue division resulted in law enforcement raids on two puppy mills, and the seizure of hundreds of dogs. The operators of these puppy mills have since pleaded guilty to various tax charges, and face civil tax suits for thousands of dollars in back taxes.

At puppy mills in Missouri, dogs are crammed into small and filthy cages, denied veterinary care, exposed to extremes of heat and cold, and given no exercise or human affection. These puppy mills are cruel and the way these dogs are treated is wrong. Prop B will stop puppy mill abuses by establishing common sense standards for the proper care of dogs.

Prop B is supported by Missouri veterinarians and veterinary clinics; animal welfare charities and organizations, including the Humane Society of Missouri, the Missouri Alliance for Animal Legislation, Central Missouri Humane Society, Humane Society of Southwest Missouri, Wayside Waifs, the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (ASPCA), the Animal Rescue Foundation (ARF), Best Friends Animal Society, and The Humane Society of the United States; prominent Missouri citizens such as Tony La Russa and Linda Bond; as well as responsible dog breeders, elected officials, religious leaders, and Missouri businesses."

(Report Comment)
Ruth Elledge October 3, 2010 | 6:07 a.m.

Just to be sure no one thinks I made up the above, here's the link:
http://www.yesonpropb.com/media/press-re...

and yes, of course it's on the Proponent site. Just sharing.

(Report Comment)
Helen (not the actress) Hunt October 3, 2010 | 7:17 a.m.

/FORWARD THIS GOOD READING! (ASPCA PETA HSUS) #nokill TO OBAMA, BIDEN EACH AND EVERY SENATOR, (cont) http://tl.gd/3668o7

(Report Comment)
Helen (not the actress) Hunt October 3, 2010 | 7:45 a.m.

.Does the HSUS ASPCA and PETA really want to get into a question of Ethics.. All three have for years committed donation fraud.. Taking in BILLIONS for animal rescue while causing the death of countless tens of thousands of animals they proclaimed to have saved from hoarders, puppy mills and #nokill shelters.. Rescue or BIG BUSINESS?

VIRGINIA, USGov, READ-> http://tl.gd/65e23b WE DEMAND THAT U CHARGE PETA WITH 23,640 ANIMALS CRUELTY!(aspca peta hsus r NOT #nokill)

=ASPCA PETA HSUS.. Animal rescue or BIG BUSINESS? http://tl.gd/63aeok CK OUT THIS SERIES OF LINKS BEFORE YOU DONATE

}USA think HUMANE THING 2 do is EUTHANIZING 9.6M DOGS-CATS? U should watch GRAPHIC> http://youtu.be/CvpL2vh3rrg ASCPA PETA HSUS OSPCA RSPCA

Kern Co HS killed 3354 Puppies-Kittens, Reason? "Too young" http://t.co/jKfrM4u
ASPCA PETA HSUS is THIS "humane euthanziation"? #nokill

BEFORE U "BLINDLY" SIGN ASPCA PETA HSUS ONLINE "PETITIONS?. These THREE GROUPS have a UNITED VEGAN AGENDA. http://www.v-abs.com/HSUS.htm

HSUS & KERN CO. RESCUE OR MASS MURDER? READ RESCUE--> http://bit.ly/bbNX52 THEN READ THESE KILL STATS-> http://bit.ly/a2KUMV (aspca peta hsus)

CAN U FIND HSUS ASPCA REAL KILL RATES? NO! BECAUSE MANY PUPPY MILL DOGS END UP LRG CITY EUTHANIZING SHELTERS LIKE--> http://bit.ly/a2KUMV

HSUS 09 BUDGET,20M Pensions,50M stock,130M assets, 99M "overhead"(adv,sal, lobby) 1/2 of 1 PERCENT TO COMMUNITY SHELTERS? PRIORITIES? And in 50+ years
HSUS has not built ONE HUMANE SOCIETY SHELTER for
the PUPPY Mill Dogs they "save"..

ASPCA 96 CHRGS Miss PUPPY MILL RAID http://tinyurl.com/2azxamq DOGS SENT TO GA #1KILLER USA --> http://gvaw.org/Documents/GVAWReport.pdf...

ASPCA 07 TAX INFO:ASSET$231,206,081.00.INVESTMENTS $134,024,333. DONATIONS "TO OTHER ANIMAL GROUPS"$6,070,413.00 OR ABOUT 2%. GET PIC?
Even with over 200M in assets and a yearly donation
intake of over 100MILLION dollars a year, the ASPCA still dumps thousands of the PUPPY MILL DOGS off on large city shelters like this one to be euthanized...
http://gvaw.org/Documents/GVAWReport.pdf...

ACC TO GVAW,GEORGIA KILLS RATES EQUIV of 3 STATES. ATLANTA Humane SOC WHERE ASPCA SENDS UNWANTED PUPPY MILL DOGS http://tinyurl.com/234dcwa
Follow aspca hsus raids online.. Check out the shelters that they list as "partneres who help in raids/take the animals after the raids. Some of them are among the highest kill rate shelters in the USA.! RESCUE OR MURDER for donations money?

PLEASE VISIT THIS GREAT ANIMAL LOVER SITE http://www.nathanwinograd.com/?p=3272 ASPCA PETA HSUS RSPCA OSPCA DOGS CATS HORSE BIRD PIG COW

Humane Society of the United States: Funding sources, staff profiles, and political agenda http://shar.es/mYDpI HSUS NOTHING BUT SCAMMERS!

(Report Comment)
Ellis Smith October 3, 2010 | 7:55 a.m.

@ John Schultz

Yes, John, I too have noticed this excessive capitalization. My understanding (remember, I came to the Internet rather late in my life) is that capitalization equals "shouting."

Considering the content of some posts on this subject it could be that shouting is appropriate. It's the only way to be noticed.

Beyond that I won't go. I have on occasion been accused of being the "grammar Nazi" on these forums.

@ Ray Shapiro

Thanks for the references. The dog is shown wearing red, which would be correct for Ferrari and Maserati. The shade isn't Italian Racing Red, but let's not get picky. A Doberman Pinscher would no doubt wear German Racing Silver, while an Old English Sheep Dog would be nattily outfitted in British Racing Green.

(Report Comment)
Helen (not the actress) Hunt October 3, 2010 | 8:36 a.m.

LETS Disect this statement made a little bit above by Wiccan Vegan Aimee Ruth.. COPIED AND PASTED..

You people keep stating that you don't understand why shelters are not included, I will say it again.
Shelters are temporary for these animals, You people expect your cages to be a home for years. Problem with some not all no kill shelters is that they become to full and will have the same dogs there for more than a short time. This in essence is the same thing you people are or if you will hoarding. Sometimes death is the most humane thing that can be done, it ends alot of suffering.

MY ANSWER:

I have heard this same response and no doubt, as in many cases before, it was made by an uniformed person who really knows nothing about animal farming OR rescue on a large scale basis..

Though somewhat temporary, many of these shelter animals are left for indefinite periods of time. My point would be this. YOu say that these "breeders and puppy mills" (your term not mine) are housing these animals in substandard conditions. When I asked why INDIVIDUALS and SHELTERS were not included in this bill, your reply was one based on "temporary housing". That is no defense.. Think about this.. You are asking for "breeders" to somehow house, home and care for their animals in an standard to which most rescue groups and individuals don't even comply nor infact. Rescue groups are SUPPOSED to be backed by their community, city and county in most cases, yet with all of their money, THEY, in most cases cannot even comply to the standards that the ASPCA and HSUS are asking for to be imposed on farmers and breeders. Don't you see the irony in that fact?.. Do you know that ACCORDING TO ALL REPUTABLE STATS, even the ones posted on the HSUS AND ASPCA'S OWN WEBSITE that only about 10% (BY MOST ESTIMATES) to 15% BY high accounts of the animals that are thrown away in shelters are the result of breeders.. That infact, a near 90% of animals that enter shelters each year are the result of IRRESPONSIBLE PET OWNERS WHO DO NOT SPAY AND NEUTER THEIR PET... And you SERIOUSLY want to blame breeders for this overpopulation? You want to blame breeders for cruelty.. People who in fact ARE adhering to the MANY guidlines and regulations THAT ARE ENFORCED BY THE USDA, OUR GOVERNMENT AND LAW MAKING BODY?.. Yet SOMEHOW you want to make a "SEPARATE" set of laws that a breeder should have to adhere to yet our own GOVERNMENTS and RESCUE groups in most cases don't even house their animals and care for them AS WELL AS BREEDERS ARE REQUIRED TO BY LAW? You people really need to do your research.. You need so study the laws that are being passed in your state. A LAW IS NOT CONSTITUTIONAL IF IT IS BIASED AGAINST ONE GROUP OR SECTOR.. Thats democracy for you.. If you don't like it.. THEN YOU run for political office.

(Report Comment)
Helen (not the actress) Hunt October 3, 2010 | 8:39 a.m.

Many of the links that I posted were copied and pasted IN CAPS.. Talk to the originator.. ... Remember the message.. Its all about content...

(Report Comment)
Helen (not the actress) Hunt October 3, 2010 | 11:35 a.m.

MAYBE THIS WILL HELP ALSO... IF YOU WANT TO KNOW MORE ABOUT THE HSUS AND ITS AGENDAS. If you havent seen this site before... You should really check it out... You don't believe me? Why would a group like this be forming AGAINST the HSUS and their lies in rhetoric.. People you better wake up.. The internet is buzzing now about HSUS, their lies and decieits..MISSOURI DUE YOUR DILIGENCE AND RESEARCH...YOUR FARMS ARE IN JEOPARDY! http://www.humanewatch.org

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro October 3, 2010 | 4:16 p.m.

Just an announcement that the H$U$ clan have made their selection for Proposition B's Poster Dog.
They have decided to go with their favorite mascot, Big Daddy "Woofy" Wayne.
http://www.thinktanktoys.com/cache.php?i...
When asked why, last year's spokesdog barked, "Because we're not in Kansas anymore."
http://img.costumecraze.com/images/vendo...
The plan for next year is to eliminate all puppy porn and exploitive doggie trafficking.
http://www.amazon.com/Zoogster-Costumes-...

(Report Comment)
Ruth Elledge October 3, 2010 | 7:32 p.m.

Why no responses to the Dog Breeder Tax Evasion issue? Isn't a lack of response ordinarily an admission of guilt?

Please, can we have just a tiny change in the conversation? I stop in every few days to read and feel like I'm in a time warp. Either that or it's Groundhog Day, over and over and over. :)

(Report Comment)
Bob Carlson October 3, 2010 | 10:11 p.m.
This comment has been removed.
Bob Carlson October 3, 2010 | 10:34 p.m.

and, from Petfinder.com:

"Did you know that if just one in three people opted to adopt rather than buy a dog, no adoptable dogs would need to be euthanized for lack of a home?

October is Adopt-A-Shelter Dog Month. Help us spread the word about why rescue dogs rock. Join our e-vite, invite your friends, then use these resources to help adoptable dogs find homes!"

(Report Comment)
Bob Carlson October 3, 2010 | 11:13 p.m.
This comment has been removed.
Mark A Landers October 4, 2010 | 1:45 a.m.

Ruth Elledge posts, "potential tax fraud", "could be costing", "may owe", and "could be losing several million dollars a year" with the source as "A coalition of dog protection advocates" in reference to sales taxes on the retail sale of dogs.

Ruth, please consider the words, "potential", "may", and "could" as well as the source of your post before using the information you posted to cast your ballot in November.

There are approximately 1,100 U.S.D.A Class A licensed dog breeders and 125 with a U.S.D.A. Class B dealer licenses in the state of Missouri.

These numbers are from the "Canine Care Workshop" on July 31, 2010 I attended in Springfield, Missouri. The seminar was sponsored by the Missouri Department of Agriculture, The U.S. Department of Agriculture APHIS, Animal Care, and Veterinary Extension , Department of MU Extension.

These workshops are a part of a continuing education program for the licensed breeders in Missouri.

When class A breeders sell wholesale to Class B dealers, directly to retail outlets, or sell animals as breeding stock they are exempt from sales taxes. When Class B dealers sale to retail outlets they are exempt from sales taxes. Sales taxes are collected at the retail level.

In Missouri as in Indiana, kennels selling pet puppies
directly to the public (retail sales) are not exempt from paying sales tax. They are still exempt on the dogs they sale as breeding stock.

As Ruth points out, the current laws work. If kennels do not pay sales taxes that are owed, they can be shut down and their inventory confiscated.

I would like to point out that marketing and breeding are not the same thing. Time spent marketing puppies is time taken away from the breeder to care for their dogs.

Care of the dogs and management is provided by the kennel operator. Marketing is done by Class B dealers and retail outlets.

I have a couple questions for which I'm seeking answers. Any help would be appreciated.

1. Why do some people believe that people who operate or own pet shops do not care for animals?

2. What is the source of that "belief system"?

3. Why do some people seem to believe that a dog of unknown origin, unknown health history, and unknown genetic makeup purchased from an animal rights industry's retail outlet (shelter shops or rescue shop) is in some way superior to a puppy of know origin, known health history, and known genetic makeup purchased from a pet shop?

4. And what is the source of that "belief system"?

5. Do any of the animal rights industry's retail outlets (shelter shops and rescue shops) pay sales taxes on their retail sales? If not, why should they be allowed to make retail sales and be exempt from sales taxes?

Please VOTE NO on PROP B

(Report Comment)
Ruth Elledge October 4, 2010 | 6:28 a.m.

Mark, thank you for posting a "grown up" comment that didn't include name calling or shouting. Very refreshing for a change. Even though I am on the Yes side of this Prop, I fail to understand why people cannot remain rational in discussions like this and simply agree to disagree.

Missouri has a sales/use tax, if not mistaken. Could it be that although retail sales tax does not apply to anyone in the chain prior to the end sale, perhaps the use tax does? I don't know the answer to that.

When I was reading the article, thinking of the numbers of puppies quoted as sold previously in other media, I thought the amount of sales tax the writers felt may be owed to the state was estimated low. Just one of those eyebrow raisers.

But if there are unpaid taxes out there from anyone, regardless of the source or reason, those evading payment should be held lible, regardless of the amount.

(Report Comment)
Helen (not the actress) Hunt October 4, 2010 | 7:44 a.m.

Why no ANSWER TO TO HSUS FRAUD accusations or the fact that the HSUS "says they rescue puppy mill dogs while lying to the public" when the truth is they abandon them to be killed ... Why no answer to the question about the fact that in 50 YEARS that the HSUS has not built one animal shelter while taking in billions of dollars off or the BACK OF DOG BREEDERS by proclaiming they save these dogs? No one wants to talk about that fraud.. This fraud is why the HSUS is under investigation right now by the UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT... Do you not care about that fraud?

ALSO DO YOU KNOW while you are blaming BREEDERS for dog over population that this is the real truth about breeding stats? Knowing that only about 10% (15% tops) of the dogs born int he US ea year are the product of IRRESPONSIBLE PET OWNERS, then Why has the HSUS ASPCA and PETA lied about that fact for so long... BECAUSE YOU DONATE A LOT OF MONEY FOR IT.. Are you people hard of understanding? This post was copied..Stats verifable all over the internet..

ASPCA PETA HSUS. Do you know that statistically and verifable by ALL reputable sources, that nearly 90% of the 4-12 MILLION (number varies depending on the source) dogs and cats euthanized in United States shelters each yr are the result of "irresponsible pet owners"? NOT BREEDERS.. Breeders actually account for about 10. Why does then ASPCA PETA and HSUS tell you that they come from breeders? Because they blame breeders/or their term "Puppy Mills" for this outrageous number to get you to donate.. Look up the stats.. If these groups told you that YOU, the non-spaying, non-neutering public, were the real cause of pet over population in this country, you wouldn't become "outraged" everytime they show you a breeder/puppy mill raid commerical. These commericals are the real reason you donate. TRUE FACT! Most people that see these commericals first reaction is "to blame puppy mills".. I too agree that there are bad breeders and they should be shut down.. But we cannot stop the killing of millions of animals yearly if we don't stop lying to the public about where these animals are really coming from causing public outrage against the wrong culprit. The truth is, breeders are an easy target, just as "hoarders" or under funded rescue groups. These raids commericals have brought in BILLIONS of dollars in donations for the ASPCA and HSUS over the yrs. PLEASE SPAY AND NEUTER!

(Report Comment)
Helen (not the actress) Hunt October 4, 2010 | 8:01 a.m.

BOB CARLSON.. I don't know where you got that lie of a statistic from but it is completely untrue. Even by the HSUS and ASPCA own stats, only about 10 to a max 0f 15% of animals born in this country are the product of breeders... That means that of the low 4,000,000 million born in the USA only about 4-5hundred thousand come from breeders. Most statistics don't even give the number sold by breeders to be that high. Most others say around 2-300 thousand. Whatever the number is, it is no where near the number that non-spaying, non-neutering public contributes by ANY comparison.. The other 3.5 million or so are the product of the non-spaying non-neutering public.. If these 100-200million dollar(donations) corporations like the HSUS and ASPCA were really concerned about animals/dogs and puppy mills, don't you think that the HSUS would at least have the deceny to take some of the 10 BILLION dollars that they have sucked up (donation money) and build ONE DOG SHELTER? Dont you think that if the ASPCA really cared about Puppy mill dogs they would stop dumping the animals off on large city, high rate kill shelters like Atlanta H.S (Georgia has the highest kill rates per capital in the USA, 3 to 1 over any other state) or Kern County H.S. or as I refer to them The Most notorious kill shelter in the USA (look them up).. You people don't care what these shelters do in the name of rescue.. Have we really resorted to rescue meaning death for animals? If we have, then this country and its people are even sorrier and in more of a moral decline than I even thought. Its really sad. I am THANKFUL that I am not a dog or other animal being "rescued" by these groups. If the HSUS ASPCA and PETA were in this because they cared about these animals they would be spending that 100-200M bucks yr EACH to build shelters, implement spay and neuter programs, NOT to abandon and kill these animals..If YOU think that this is rescue, then you are just as sick as a Vegan who doesn't eat animals but thinks its ok to kill them like peta with their record breaking 97% kill rate for this year.. If these are the kind of unethical Corporations running rescue groups that are leading the way and making "animal laws" in this country, then we have already let these animals down..

(Report Comment)
Helen (not the actress) Hunt October 4, 2010 | 8:19 a.m.

And an answer to your "tax evasion" comment. If they are farmers and they are breeding dogs and selling them through ANY venue, then they have to pay INCOME TAX at the end of the year.. If the need to pay SALES tax then the state in which they reside will implement a law for that to happen.. ALL FARMERS PAY INCOME TAX, just like you do at your job.. There is NOTHING deceptive about this.. When you go to the farmers markert or stop on the side of the road and buy tomoatoes or fruit, do you see MOST of these farmers and sales tax when you buy a melon for three bucks and hand him $3.00... NO...I buy all of the time while out traveling.. Its because they pay INCOME TAX off of their profits just like any other farmer. Thats they way it has worked in farming in this country for the last three hundred years or so.. If missouri wants them to "itemize" their sales tax, they will implement a law on farmers that applies to ALL sales just like this one and YOU will pay for it at the supermarket... Everything you ask for has respercussions.. Just like this law. You people will not be happy until we can't afford a piece of meat or a dozen eggs.. You don't even have the fortitued to realize what the implications of this "animal law" are.. If you think this law is an attempt by the HSUS and ASPCA to ONLY go after puppy mills, then you are not the somewhat intelligent people that I thought that this country was comprised of.. I thought at a minimal people would research these groups, their agendas.. Even several state Senators in the East recently stated (while not passing an HSUS/ASPCA backed law) that the passage of such law was just another assault by the HSUS and ASPCA on the meat and farming industry in this country.. If you are Vegan, so be it..But in case you don't know it, MOST of these farmers that raise cows, hogs etc are the SAME farmers that grow your grain... Nearly every farmer that I know that grows corn, soy beans, cotton etc ALSO have livestock.. SO as you assault these farmers with the implementing of more and more regulations that cost them thousands of dollars yearly, remember why you can barely afford to buy groceries. You people better get your head out of the sand and wake up before you put every farm in this country out of business and we are all eating South American EVERYTHING. And you wonder why we have so few farms left in this country now.. As the old saying goes "those who do the least, complain the most".. Why don't you people put on your farming clothes, get up at 5 am and try on a farmers dirty boots for a while.. See what it really takes to feed your hungry faces.. I bet none of you will last through the first day.. Think about that when you vote against farming..

(Report Comment)
Bob Carlson October 4, 2010 | 10:11 a.m.

Helen, take a Valium and lay off the CAPS LOCK key.

(Report Comment)
Bob Carlson October 4, 2010 | 10:24 a.m.

wow, an amazing lack of capitalization lately, "not the actress." my 4 cats are all spayed/neutered and up to date on their shots. i spend most of my free time doing rescue work. i go to the local farmer's market. i'm careful about where i buy my eggs after Salmonella Sam or whoever he is screwed up the industry for everyone (and the chicken industry is about as dirty as factory farming gets). i watch Farm Aid on youtube. if i lived in Texas, i'd vote for Kinky Friedman to be head of their department of agriculture...he not only runs the Utopia Animal Rescue Ranch down there, but his platform calls for a no-kill shelter in every county in the state. plus, i tuned his guitar for him once.

(Report Comment)
Helen (not the actress) Hunt October 4, 2010 | 12:04 p.m.

Bob... I wish that all animals could be raised in a "little green meadow" but the truth of the matter is, they are not.. Thats the price we pay if we want to eat.. Im not happy about ANY of it myself.. But there are now in excess of 230 MILLION people in this country.. How else do we feed this rapidly growing number of people?. Can we ALL go back to farming individually in this overcrowded society? Considering the amount of food that has to be grown to feed that number of people , billions of pounds of food shipped to foreign countries. What are the alternatives? Unless we ALL go back to farming we have got to get our meat and produce somewhere.. My point is, would people rather we eat our own food which is "somewhat clean and regulated by the USDA", or would we rather import more and more from third world countries who are infamously known for using banned pesticides and chemicals both on their produce and in their animal feed.and as lately came to light by New Investigators, even in medicines produced outside of the U.S.. Really what choice do we have? The few farms that are left in this country ARE commercial grade farms for the most part. People are very naive in thinking that the little produce that we buy at our farmers markets is somehow grown in stringent conditions.. I live in a farming area. Most of those "farmers market goods" that you are buying that are supposed to be grown by these "independent farmers" are in fact NOT.. I know three people that operate in those markets right now.. They all go down south and bring in shipments from large farms down in Georgia and florida from "commerical farms". Recently we asked both of them about their "home grown tomoates". None of them infact even have a farm. Again both of them drive down further in the south and buy truck loads of watermelons, tomatoes and other vegetables to sell at the markets. I am sure that there are a few of these small farms that bring in their goods that actually raise them off their own farms like my granddad did for years, but that isn't the case anymore.. That should be the next "nightline investigation".. I read an article a while back on this subject by one group doing an investigation. They found that nearly all of these "farmers market vegetables" that were supposed to be "naturally grown" had traces of fertilizers, pesticides and basically the same thing as the food in your supermarkets.. I try to only buy vegetables from a couple of my neighbors who farm as well as my from dads garden (and my own when I have time). My dad growns for family, but that is seasonal. Even I have to use fertilizer and pesticides to keep the insects from eating up my garden. Can you imagine what a commerical farm has to do to keep their crops from being eaten up by woolyworms, grasshoppers, crikets, mites, fungus.. THATS gardening.. continued

(Report Comment)
Helen (not the actress) Hunt October 4, 2010 | 12:07 p.m.

One clue to most people that these farmers markets are not growing the food locally is ask yourself "where does the produce come from in off season"? They have to import in off seasons. There is no real regulation on these markets and really no way to tell where they get their produce from.. I wish there was some kind of magical chemical free environment where we can get meat, vegetables and other produce that was free of outside agents, but it just isn't so.. OUr population has grow way beyond that point. Thats why the USDA was set up to regulate these groups as best they can, but the truth is there is no easy answer.. Farms are regulated to death.. But if you want them to be able to produce enough goods to keep feeding this nation, thats the price we have to pay.. Our farms are few and far between already. THey are being regulated out of business right now.. Can we afford to regulate the rest of them out of business? In the last 20-30 years the population in my area has sured to a point that I don't even know my neighbors anylonger.. When I was growing up in this small town and county, I knew nearly everyone white and black.. Now I know hardly anyone. .Most of the true locals, farmers are gone.. An large influx of hispanics have migrated.. Hardly a farm left.. New homes everywhere.. Thats progess. Thats why the farms are now gone.. Even in my area that was mostly rural 30 years ago.. Im just saying, can we afford to take a chance.. We have regulated all that we can regulate if we want our farms to continue feeding us or we had better get our walmart hoes and rakes out and get to work.. I doub't I know anyone really anymore besides my own old aunts, my parents and maybe myself that could grown enough food to feed ourselves.. I think everyone should ask themselves that question..

(Report Comment)
Helen (not the actress) Hunt October 4, 2010 | 5:10 p.m.

AND AGAIN, sorry about all of the typos, mis-spelling, gramatical errors.. I see them when I have a chance to come back and forth and re-read them. I am ususally running back and forth caring for my animals while I am TRYING to type and answer.. Its hard to concentrate/form a complete thought when I am taking care of several dozen animals at a time If you do rescues you know how it is...

(Report Comment)
wes scribner October 4, 2010 | 6:06 p.m.

BEWARE!! Do Not purchase any pets from Kara Crass dog breeder. I adopted a puppy early this yr from her and it got diagnosed with a disease.Rare or not when i contacted Kara to refund my money and use the 1 yr warranty she denied my request for a refund on my puppy. Ive spent a thousand bucks already to find out what my poor puppy had. Every month for the rest of his life i have to bring him to the vet to get a hundred dollar shot. Do the math! All i asked for was a refund on the cost of the dog to help with medical bills and was denied. DO NOT PURCHASE A PET FROM THIS COLD BREEDER. I will do what ever it takes for my voice to be heard.Its just a wrong way to do business.

(Report Comment)
Mark Foecking October 4, 2010 | 7:02 p.m.

wes scribner wrote:

"Rare or not when i contacted Kara to refund my money and use the 1 yr warranty she denied my request for a refund on my puppy. "

What were the terms of your warranty? What eventualities did it cover, and was this disease one of them?

It would be interesting to hear her side of this. Too often people make judgments without getting both sides.

DK

(Report Comment)
Helen (not the actress) Hunt October 4, 2010 | 8:07 p.m.

WOW! What "rare disease" did the dog have? I know most breeders have a return/refund stipulation in their warranty according to my vet. ALL DIFFERENT it seems...I know you're mad but I wouldn't say too much online until I spoke with an attorney/took her to court if you can prove the accusations. You don't want to get sued for defamantion if you can't prove the accusations. Especially if this is an expensive dog from a "reputable breeder". After all, you can't get more "public and defamatory" than this.. A lot of people interpret these warranties to cover EVERYTHING and its just not the case most of the time. (sorry)

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro October 4, 2010 | 9:20 p.m.

@wes scribner:
How many satisfied customers does Kara Crass have?
Your argument to close down an entire industry because of your one disappointmnet is lame.

(Report Comment)
wes scribner October 4, 2010 | 9:31 p.m.

Without going into actual details about the disease on a "Public" forum i will say this. She knows about the whole situation and i have contacted her several times about this issue. Different Vets say different things about the disease.Where does one get off saying her vet is right and mine is wrong? Fact of the matter is i payed 300 bucks for my dog. In a nice way i respectfully asked her to please help and refund that money (which is not a lot) to cover some of my thousand dollars i spent so far in trying to find out what was wrong with my dog. The Nerve to come out and say she will not refund was just cold, bitter and left me with nothing else to do but voice my opinion about how Kara Crass does business. For the record i have dug deep into this disease and i am finding out more and more about it in dogs. I just feel ripped off in a way.If i can help someone make a decision in purchasing a pet through a breeder i would not recommend Kara Crass. And thats why i posted here. Helen i have proof of everything to back my statements up. THESE SO CALLED BREEDERS LOVE THERE PETS AND LOVE ANIMALS!! pfffft NOT

(Report Comment)
wes scribner October 4, 2010 | 9:50 p.m.

@RAY Its people like you who give the so called "industry" a bad name. First time i bought a dog out of Missouri and it will never happen again. Are you sure i am the only one disappointed? Go do your research.My situation set aside--------) there is a reason why this state is always on the news about breeding,I see it and i live on the eastcoast. The fact you called me lame makes you lame. Just making sure no one else gets porked like me.I took a gamble and lost and now its time for me to preach. You must be a slime ball dog breeder who doesn't give a damn how your puppies turn out.

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro October 4, 2010 | 10:10 p.m.

wes scribner said:
("@RAY Its people like you who give the so called "industry" a bad name.")

And how exactly do I do that?

(Report Comment)
Helen (not the actress) Hunt October 4, 2010 | 10:36 p.m.

My vet once stated to me that he didn't understand why breeders gave warranties on dogs at all.. He said that he sees a lot more puppies/dogs that people people buy from people who were NOT actual breeders and hardly every do these individuals being called breeders ever give a warranty. He stated that he had problems out of these puppies seemingly a lot more often that the ones from breeders.. As most statistics online tell us, only about 250-400 thousand puppies (depending on who you believe sources listed on the aspca site)ea yr come from REAL BREEDERS. The bulk of the rest of the other several million come from "back yard breeders/individuals", who mostly know nothing about what they are doing.. A lot of people (not saying wes)blame REAL breeders for what happens when they go to someones who has 5 dogs that they breed as a "part time money maker' and the "industy" gets the blame when something goes amuck... Of course most people buy out of the newspaper from these "two dogs breeders" because they can pick up a pure breed dog much cheaper than they could from a "real REPUTABLE breeder".. Im not defending anyone in your situation.. I don't know the details and thats not my business.. But I've seen it time and time again.. The newspapers are full of hundreds of "breeders" in most major cities and when you call them, MOST of them are not a REAL,INFORMED BREEDER.. They are individuals with a couple dogs that they raise a few litters out to make a few extra bucks.. The sad thing is, REAL breeders pay the price either way it goes..cont

(Report Comment)
Helen (not the actress) Hunt October 4, 2010 | 10:37 p.m.

They get blamed for "bad breeders/puppy mills as YOU call them" as well as the "back yard breeder who knows nothing about what he is doing".. The one who will pay for it in the long run are the ones who are not even the real culprits.. You can ask most any vet.. Either someone is lying to breeders, or they are lying to the purchaser who comes in with the sick animal.. Either way the vet gets paid and the good breeders ALWAYS get the defamation and the blame.. People go in and want to buy dogs and know nothing about raising a puppy but they insist on buying 6 and 8 week old puppies.. Its true..Ask any breeder. THey will tell you the same thing, if the puppies get over a certain age and size, just as in pet stores, they reduce them in price because nothing is as appealing to the public as a teenie, tiny puppy.. Personally I think if you want to pass dog laws. Pass one that states "if you buy a dog, you have to take a puppy parenting class".. ANY VET WILL TELL YOU a LOT of diseases such as cocossidios, giardia , parvo etc can be triggered by a weakened immunity and it happens MOST OF THE TIME, in puppies that are weaned to quickly.. MY ADVICE, from years of rescuing and adopting out puppies from pregnant females, is NEVER BUY (OR PREFERABLY ADOPT) A PUPPY UNTIL IT IS a GOOD STRONG 8 weeks old (large breeds) and small or tiny breeds 10-12 weeks.. And make sure they have had AT LEAST two sets of vaccinations.. If not, how is your 6 week old tiny puppy that you give to your kids during the christmas holidays going to survive the stress of being passed around by the kids, getting ignored when the family gets to busy to care for him properly during this very busy time.. People should REALLY think about buying these holiday 6wk olds.. ITS A BAD IDEA FOR EVERYONE.. Again, when it becomes ill from the stress.. The breeder ALWAYS IS TO BLAME...You wouldnt treat your new born baby the way most people treat these puppies and most of the time,6wk old puppies are in no way ready for a stressful situation.. They take LOTS of love and care..

(Report Comment)
Aimie Ruth October 5, 2010 | 2:28 a.m.

Considering I do not have time to finish reading what I have missed over the last couple days this will be short.
Helen once more I am not Vegan Vegans do not utilize anything that come from an animal. That is their own choice. I have no problem with eggs, wool, milk ect. And I don't push my beliefs onto others. My entire family eats meat and I do not lecture them. It is a personal choice I respect theirs and they respect mine.
You want to attack my personal beliefs? You are only proving my point about the type of person you are. As for you calling me a witch, fine is that suppose to hurt my feelings? I am well aware of what I am. You think we can't make up our minds about who we worship? Fact is we can believe what we want, there are no set rules. That is all I am going to say on that issue.
Again with the shelters being excluded. What do you not understand about shelter verses Puppy Mill/ Large scale breeder? One is trying to save, the other is just adding to the problem.

(Report Comment)
Joe McLoughlin October 5, 2010 | 8:43 a.m.
This comment has been removed.
connie crewse October 5, 2010 | 12:31 p.m.
(Report Comment)
Helen (not the actress) Hunt October 5, 2010 | 2:09 p.m.

Aimie Ruth ... Personally I could care less if you worship a witch or the devil himself.. As you said, thats YOUR choice, good or bad.. The point of my post is that no-one else should be able to dictact to me or anyone else whether we own animals or eat meat.. Even more importantly as with the HSUS ASPCA and PETA, they should not be allowed to lie about their agendas and motive without being held accountable just because they have grown to a proportion that the government apparently doesnt even have the "balls" to stand up against them.. The reason we have a government and we elect or legislators and THEY formed the USDA was for this very reason.. What business is it of a RESCUE group, and yes THATS WHAT THEY ARE, a RESCUE group by all definition and as anyone could see from their "puppy mill raid commericals", What business is it of a RESCUE GROUP to be manipulating laws and interfering in the farming and meat producing industries in this country.. They have no right to be slandering the meat prouding and farming industry in this country.. ESPECIALLY when these people are apparently adhering to the laws.. IF they weren't the USGov would shut them down.. That is the protocal.. The real problems is, these groups have "grown to big for their britches" by using deceptive practices, manipulating laws and lying to the public in the process about their motive and their "rescue efforts"... Personally, I am glad that the USGov has finally gotten enough deceny in their bones that they have launched an invesitgation in to HSUS finances and fraudulent campaign tactics.. ITS ABOUT TIME... They want to lie, manipulate and cause problems for the farming industy, lets see what its like when the shoe is on the other foot...

:PEOPLE SHOULD REALLY READ THIS! _PLS RETWEET http://tl.gd/5v7q7v USA ITS OUR RIGHT! ASPCA PETA HSUS CAT DOG FARM GOD CHRISTIAN RESCUE) #nokill TO OBAMA, BIDEN SENATORS

(Report Comment)
Cody Hobbs October 5, 2010 | 6:33 p.m.

@ Wes...

What kind of disease was it? If it was not in her guarantee which I am sure you had to sign, than she does not have to up hold anything. Once that dog becomes yours so do all the vet bills!!! That is part of owning a pet!!!

(Report Comment)
Kara Crass October 5, 2010 | 6:40 p.m.

Hello Wes it's Kara, I see you've been a busy boy:0)
First, I will tell everyone the disease that his puppy has, it has Addison's disease. I requested and my vet received the necessary documentation to show that his puppy did indeed have this disease. While my vet agrees with the diagnosis, he did inform me that it IS NOT A CONGENITAL DISEASE, it just happens and is the "luck of the draw", in his words. I did forward my vet's letter to Wes and told him that, "while I was very sorry his puppy had gotten sick, because this was not a congenital disease it was not covered in his guarantee." And nowhere in his correspondance did his vet say he considered this a congenital problem. He replied back that his vet and mine seemed to be disagreeing and maybe "my vet from here in the hills, was not smart enough to know it was congenital." Now, my vet graduated from the University of Missouri which, as far as I know, has one of the top programs in the country. My vet sited the material that he reviewed before making his decision: The Merck Veterinary Manual Ninth Edition, Textbook of Veterinary Internal Medicin by Ettinger/ Feldman and Saunders Manual of Small Animal Practice by Birchard/Sherding, just to name a few.continued.....

(Report Comment)
Kara Crass October 5, 2010 | 6:55 p.m.

After a not so nice phone call and some threats to "give me a bad name". I was really not inclined to do anything more. However, and it's great this will be so public, I told Wes that if he will have his vet fax me a letter stating that he feels Addison's is DEFINATELY congenital and that is the ONLY way his puppy got the disease, I would contact EVERY vet in my area and if I could get just one to agree that it was congenital I would refund his purchase price, as soon as the puppy and all his paperwork is returned to me per my guarantee. Now, needless to say I have not received anything from his vet. I am extremely sorry that his puppy got this disease, in 22 years of raising this breed, I had never heard of it. I have offered him a solution, but he called me up demanding his money back that just because his puppy got sick it must be my fault. My guarantee does not give someone 'carte blanche'. You don't just get your money back because something goes wrong, there are guidelines to follow, it goes both ways. Just because I will not give in to scare tactics does not mean I am a bad breeder. Puppies should not get sick, neither should children but it does happen and it is nobodies fault. I have hundreds of satisfied customers that buy puppy after puppy from me so I guess I was due one unhappy one.

(Report Comment)
Ruth Elledge October 5, 2010 | 6:59 p.m.

A little more fodder for the opposition to chew on:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/wayne-pace...

Opponents to Prop B have consistently insisted that it's the backyard, unlicensed breeders who are the problem and continue to point fingers at them for bringing this horrible wrath upon the good breeders. The Dirty Dozen noted in this article are all licensed breeders.

And once again, it's about the dogs, and only the dogs.

Yes!on Prop B

(Report Comment)
Helen (not the actress) Hunt October 5, 2010 | 7:39 p.m.

The customer is never wrong, you know that by now don't you Kara? Personally I would copy these post for my records also...Sounds like you will be needing them. I do rescues, donation free I might add, I GIVE the dogs away to good homes.. Don't take one penny and I STILL have people calling me back saying things like "if I had know that the puppy had this, or If I had known that this was going to happen, I would never have taken the dog".. A FREE DOG.. I have taken in countless animals over the years and I have NEVER felt that it was anyones fault but the person who put the dog out or purchased it and was irresponsible.. At what point does the responsiblity become that of the purchaser? Seriously, people go into the newspaper buy dogs for a mere fraction of what they would cost at a pets store and even when given a warranty, they still blame the breeder.. I know that it doesn't matter how much you paid for the dog but people really need to do their research when they buy a dog or pick one up on the street for that matter.. Dogs have as many "unpredictable/unforseen" ailments as people do.. A lot of stomach ailments are NOT recognizable for weeks or months.. A lot of ailments such as cocossidios, giardia, parvo and other things that don't affect a healthy animal can bring an "uncared for" animal down quickly.. People buy dogs, take them home, go on with their busy lives, then something happens and somehow "its the breeders fault".. You wouldn't take your baby home from the hospital and throw it in a dog house, lock it in the garage or in a pet carrier all day for 8-10 hours while they work and somehow when the stress of being unattended for that period of time brings on an ailment that otherwise would not have occured, it becomes the breeders fault.. In case you people don't know it, giardia, coccosidos and many other aliments are very common.. Giarida and coccosidios are, according to AMVA, present in an estimated of 70++ percent of ALL dogs.. meaning at least two out of three.. Not usually noticeable UNLESS brought on by "stress" which sometimes is as simple as an environment change, diet change, too much handling of a new pup.. And yet, you STILL think that the breeder is responsible.. I just don't get it.. You should take your new pet to the vet when you buy it.. If it is healthy at that point and you are happy.. That should be the end of it.. Its nobodies fault when these unforseen things come up.. Its a part of pet ownership.. I live with it everyday.

(Report Comment)
Aimie Ruth October 6, 2010 | 12:09 a.m.

Addison's in dogs is not that rare. It is however starnge that a puppy has the disease. As for being congenital the disease its self may not be, but alot of the underlined issue is. Certain dogs are going to be more pron to it. I would be pissed at the breeder and want to know if they have been having annual blood work done on the parents.

And Helen when it comes to how the animals are being treated, I think damn well they should be able to dictate how many you own. The farming industry today is for the most part disgusting, to much short cutting. Why the hell do you think 13 year old look like they are in their 20's? It because of all the crap you are feeding the animals.
You keep grouping Puppy Mills/ Large Scale Breeders with Farming why? You really think they are the same thing? There are enough dogs that need homes, yes you need to be limited.

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro October 6, 2010 | 12:33 a.m.

("California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger has vetoed AB 241, the anti-puppy mill bill that would have limited commercial dog and cat breeders to a total of 50 breeding animals.
In vetoing this bill, Gov. Schwarzenegger said, "I am returning Assembly Bill 241 without my signature. This... measure simply goes too far in an attempt to address the serious problem of puppy mills. An arbitrary cap on the number of animals any entity can possess throughout the state will not end unlawful, inhumane breeding practices. Instead this measure has the potential to criminalize the lawful activities of reputable breeders, pet stores, kennels, and charitable organizations engaged in raising service and assistance dogs. For these reasons, I am unable to sign this bill."
Language of the bill;
Under the bill, "[n]o person or business entity... shall own, possess, control, or otherwise have charge or custody of more than a combined total of 50 adult unsterilized dogs and cats, in the state, at any time used for the purpose of breeding or raising dogs or cats for sale as pets.")
source and more:
http://www.animallawcoalition.com/compan...

(Report Comment)
Mark Foecking October 6, 2010 | 3:17 a.m.

Addison's in humans can be either acquired or congenital. If the breeding line doesn't have it (and it's not something you'd miss) then it's likely acquired. I suspect most vets don't treat it very often, and the differential diagnosis is expensive and unusual (it's called an ACTH challenge), so it's unlikely you'll get many vets saying much about its origin.

Aimie Ruth wrote:

"I would be pissed at the breeder and want to know if they have been having annual blood work done on the parents."

Of course you would be. It's a breeder. Evil, money grubbing spawn of Satan and all that.

You do realize blood work won't catch this, right? It's diagnosed through symptoms, primarily. The blood work needed to test for this is expensive, unusual, and Addison's is rare enough that it's not worth it for most dogs.

DK

(Report Comment)
Helen (not the actress) Hunt October 6, 2010 | 7:33 a.m.

By any chance, has the ASPCA and HSUS OR our State legislators forgot about THIS? FARMING LAWS ALL 50 STATES?

See this is another attempt by the HSUS ASPCA PETA and their vegan agendas to overstep their boundaries.. We ALREADY have a USDA.. We already have both state and federal laws and guidelines. We also elect our officials to make the very necessary laws.. I call this interference. At some point these states and the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT is going to have to step in and put a stop to this.. Can we really afford and allow for these vegan headed groups to keep assauting our farms?

Even state legislators are reacting ... The truth is coming out about the agenda of these groups.. We have got to put a stop to this before they "law" our farms and meat producing industries out of business.. Read these post...'

http://www.nationalaglawcenter.org/asset...

(Report Comment)
Joe McLoughlin October 6, 2010 | 9:18 a.m.

hey, the LA Times did an article on this! http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/unleashe...

(Report Comment)
Helen (not the actress) Hunt October 6, 2010 | 11:28 a.m.

The LA times has never been anything but onesided on every story they have printed and nearly everyone I have found was PRO PETA HSUS AND ASPCA... They have continually praised the efforts of the HSUS ASPCA and PETA all three really.. They've never been anything but biased.. Apparenty there are no meat eaters or farmers in their families either. Its sad when the L.A. times has to resort to rhetoric like this to print stories without even investigating the facts.. They are what I refer to as "re-run printers". Its apparent by the article to which you are refering that they have not done any real research on this subject nor do they know anything about animals or the farming industry as a whole. They are just printing a slanderous headline to sell papers.. How can a NEWSPAPER be so biased and onesided on a subject that they have no background in nor APPARENTLY have any REAL information about. Did you see any PERTINET, informative, INFORMATION BACKED links in their "story"? Nope. Because they know NOTHING about what is going on with the farming industry and laws in this state... What a crock.. All I took from that article was "another slanderous headline" against the farming industry.. What will you people eat when you put these farms out of business? Even the legislators in the State of Missouri are standing up against this legislation. MOST veterinarians are even PUBLICLY against this legislation stating things like it will do nothing but hurt the farming industy in this state... Even Schwartzenageer in California VETOED almost identical legislation.. Doesn't that tell you people anything?

(Report Comment)
Mark Foecking October 6, 2010 | 12:23 p.m.

@Ruth Elledge:

In everything humans do, there are people that do it well, and those that don't. 12 breeders is about 1% of licensed, inspected breeders in the state. Can you assume, from this sample, that they're all that way? Rationally, I couldn't. You can always find examples of poorly run businesses, or ones that break the rules.

So you're willing to shut down hundreds of licensed breeders for the abuses of a few? Put all their dogs down? That's irrational grandstanding, and is a very poor reason to pass this legislation. And remember, the unlicensed ones won't shut down. In fact, this will be quite a boon to them. Think about it.

Demand for purebred and pet store dogs remains high. Supply goes down (remember large breeders produce more dogs per operation than small ones do, so shutting them down gets more dogs off the market), Prices go up.

You now have a picture perfect incentive for a black market. One without any standards, and one where the increased monetary incentive will encourage more people to risk a fairly minor (misdemeanor) arrest and conviction. Is this what you want?

Enforce the present laws first. This will do more good for more dogs immediately than prop B will. If you are concerned about socialization, or pet store sales, then petition for a bill to regulate that.

DK

(Report Comment)
connie crewse October 6, 2010 | 12:50 p.m.
(Report Comment)
connie crewse October 6, 2010 | 1:44 p.m.

http://www.votenoonpropb.com/?q=tracker

Vote NO on PROP B and keep the backbone of Missouri....
THE FARMERS!!

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro October 6, 2010 | 1:49 p.m.

Special thanks to Joe McLoughlin where his one and only post on this Missourian is for us all to read the "anti-state of Missouri" LA Times.
Fortunately, one commenter puts it all in a more balanced prospective.
(Unlike Aimee Ruth's HSUS site or Joe's LA Times article.)

"...Missouri already has the best animal welfare laws in the country. Proposition B side by side with the present Missouri laws does its best to reduce the care of animals. Missouri laws says animals must be fed twice a day. Proposition B says once a day is enough. Missouri law says animals must see a vet twice a year and immediately if any injury is apparent. Proposition B says only once a year to the vet is allowed. Proposition B states despite age all dogs must have unfettered access to the outside despite the temperatures which can get below freezing. Missouri laws say all dogs must be exercised properly and not subjected to wet, freezing, temperatures. This proposition B most egregious error is that all dogs despite their age must be kept in temperatures between 45 and 85 degrees. Missouri Law says all newborn puppies must be kept at 92% which is the temperature necessary for their survival. This law is badly written and HSUS knows it. Daily HSUS keeps increasing the number of kennels in Missouri by lying. They also said they did the intake and raids on kennels that had already decided to close their doors due to the age of the owners. HSUS did not force the closures they were normal closures due to the laws of Missouri. For nearly five years now HSUS has with impunity lied to the public and spread slander about Missouri kennels knowing full well that the USDA and Missouri inspect and regulate these kennels regularly. Proposition B does not do one thing to remove illegal or substandard puppy mills. What it does do is make owning more than ten female intact dogs a commercial venture which is about numbers not substandard care. This means home raised dogs have to be cared for with the excessive requirements that would turn a home and yard into an industrial complex just to raise your high quality puppies. That is why responsible breeders and dog owners object to this really stupid law which in court the supporters of Proposition B agreed it was a badly written overly vague and generally bad law. This is not about raising healthy quality puppies it is about removing responsible breeders from the land. Otherwise why were numbers added as they have no effect on the care animals receive. As for HSUS they have lied to the public again and again about Missouri, their laws and their dogs. This whole puppy mill idea and term came from HSUS. They first called Ohio the puppy mill capital, then Pennsylvania, then Illinois, all the while spreading lies about every state and every dog breeder....
Posted by: Dr.Rosset | October 06, 2010 at 07:03 AM LA Times")

(Report Comment)
Helen (not the actress) Hunt October 6, 2010 | 2:32 p.m.

After reading these post, I believe more than ever that it is time for breeders and farmers to ban together, hire a law firm and sue the HSUS ASPCA and these other groups for slander.. In their efforts to close down breeders as a whole, they have lied, slanndered and manipulated the general public while frauding them out of billions of dollars over the years in donation money needed badly in our on community shelters. They have based their lies on what they claim to be "bad breeders" while portraying the whole breeding and farming industry as a whole in a bad light with their continual onslaught of lies and daily defamantions of the farming and breeding industry as a whole..They have continaully attacted other rescue groups and #nokill organizations, closing their doors and defaming the workers with blatent defamation when these people were doing what they could in most cases without any help from their community, local or state governments... I believe that this is something that we could take all of the way to the Supreme court and have the HSUS ASPCA and PETAs fraudulent campaigns exposed in the process. You see the difference is, they are not just slandering bad businesss, they are attacking legitimate business, farmers and shelters as a whole... ITS TIME TO STAND UP AND UNITE AGAINST THE LIES, FRAUD AND ATTACKS OF THESE GROUPS!.. State of Missouri, heres our chance to prove to the United states that we belong here just like they do.. We need to shut down these Political extremist groups who thrive off of lies , fraud and deceit..Its time to put these "rescue groups" back into their place.. STAND UP MISSOURI, FARMERS, BREEDERS, SHELTERS and all others who are under attack from these raidical, extremist, vegan backed groups.. We know their agenda now..We know they are seeking to destroy our farms and industry... STATE OF MISSOUR, LEGISLATORS , GOVERNOR, its time to call in the Attorney Generals office and execute a full investigation of these groups and their unethical and unlawful tactics? Are you going to leave your people and farming industry without protection? The farming industry, one of the most VIABLE and regulated industries in this country is UNDER ATTACT BY PROPAGAND AND FRAUDULENT LIES... Its time for you to stand up for our farmers, this state and people and do your job!

(Report Comment)
Joe McLoughlin October 6, 2010 | 3:52 p.m.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YJ4tEpbE...

My "one and only post" had no value judgments attached, it just copied an article. It was up to the audience to evaluate. And, btw, it's "perspective," Ray. "Prospective" is a real word too, but not the one you were fishing for.
Hugs and kisses from Joe.

(Report Comment)
Joe McLoughlin October 6, 2010 | 4:01 p.m.

And, hmmm, if this is no different from other types of "agriculture," are the runts of the litter being sold to Chinese restaurants? Just askin'.

(Report Comment)
Helen (not the actress) Hunt October 6, 2010 | 5:10 p.m.

Sorry I can't seem to think and spell at the same time of late..I have a lot of rescues that I am caring for since my "so concerned community" doesn't care enough to build a shelter and IRRESPONSIBLE PET OWNERS continue to dump new animals out in my driveway and road. THOSE are the people that the HSUS and ASPCA should really be after. People who DONT SPAY AND NEUTER all of these mixed breed "mutts" that are dumped on the road side.. We've recued 4 adults this week, one with babies running up and down the side of the road, and there are another 6 running the roads right now (last count) You people should research THOSE statistics.. I could pick up a dozen a day if I had the financal resources to do so.. By this time next week, I would bet my house that there will be AT LEAST two to three new throw aways to pick up.. THESE are the real culprits.. I used to breed dogs out of love on a small scale basis.. Now because of the overwhelming need and the lack of integrity in my community, I do rescues.. I just don't get you people... Im not picking up Pekes and YORKIES, Im picking up these abandoned mutts.. Do you think these dogs are coming from breeders? I seriously doubt it.. The ASPCA and HSUS need to stop lying to you people and tell the public the truth.. YOU the non-spaying no-neutering public who throws these dogs away on the side of the road are the real culprit here.. LOOK UP THE STATS.. ACcording to all reputable online sources around 10 percent of the animals born in this country each year come from breeders.. AND THEY CANT EVEN PROVE THAT NUMBER... That is a "guesstimate". HSUS and ASPCA even post this on their site.. SOme say MAYBE 15%... Where do all the other millions come from? They come from YOU...The non-spaying , non-neutering public... Try that shoe on for size! .. Think of how many animals the HSUS and ASPCA could save if they spent the 100-200million bucks a year that they get FOR RESCUE actually trying to save these animals and IMPLEMENT A NATION WIDE SPAY AND NEUTER PROGRAM FOR NON-BREEDERS.. One day I hope the public figures this out for themselves.. Maybe then you will start donating some of that 100-200MILLION BUCKS A YEAR that you give to HSUS and ASPCA (EACH).. Maybe then we can save some of those 4-????Million dogs that are killed every year because you DO NOT SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL HUMANE SOCIETIES AND SHELTERS...

(Report Comment)
Crystal Bradley October 6, 2010 | 5:29 p.m.

Abolishing Animal Ownership: One Step at a Time… HSUS spends less than 0.5% of their revenue on the care of animals. The goal of their organization have been made clear by numerous statements by their President, Wayne Pacelle, a radical animal rights activist.

“We have no problem with the extinction of domestic animals.”
-Wayne Pacelle, President, HSUS

“In fact, I don’t want to see another dog or cat born.”
-Wayne Pacelle, President, HSUS

“Our goal is to get sport hunting in the same category as **** fighting and dog fighting. We are going to use the ballot box and the democratic process to stop all hunting in the United States.”
-Wayne Pacelle, President, HSUS

HSUS is misleading the public with its intentions on Prop B. The society seeks only to raise the cost of breeding dogs, making it ever-more difficult for middle-class American families to be dog-owners.

The Humane Society of the United States is a corrupt organization!!! For every $10 you donate, ONLY 5 cents goes to actual shelters.

www.thealliancefortruth.com

(Report Comment)
Crystal Bradley October 6, 2010 | 5:35 p.m.

I think they should kill all the puppies and dogs like Hsus wants. They should also have no NO cows,pigs,chickens etc. Yes that is the way they want it. If that new bill gets passed Prop B. They will also be going after YOUR PETS. They believe you shouldn't own a domestic animal. shame shame on anyone that has a pet...ANY PET !
Vote yes on Prop B and get all your rights taken away. Isn't that what the troops are fighting for overseas? We should only import puppies from China or Mexico just like everything else. Down with the dog breeders ! Up with the illegal breeders and smugglers of puppies across the borders! We should make it a crime if there is a cobweb or a piece of dog food gets in a water bowl. Send that owner to jail. Yes thats in the bill. Read it people! First dog breeders then dog owners. That is also the agenda.
Did Hsus ever tell you only 5 cents out of every 10.00 donated lines the big boys pockets. Oops I mean goes to retirement funds and more fund raising propaganda?
Lets all believe the lies and live and think like sheep. In other words we won't have to think. Don't turn into a sheep though because you'll have to be microchipped and if there gets to be to many in your herd , over 50 , you just might not make it.
More govt. regulation I say! It's ok really. The illegal breeders and animal hoarders aren't effected by this bill. Nor is the shelters, human society or any other place like that. They are allowed to kill and treat the poor dogs however they want. But those bad licensed breeders have to have it spotless and cleaner than most homes.
In the state of Missouri a dog breeder has to have clean fresh water, food, heat and a/c for their dogs. Do you know what the requirements for a child is? It's ONLY WATER !
Wake up America !!! Shake yourselves wake up wake up.

www.animalscam.com
www.activistcash.com
www.consumerfreedom.com
www.alliancefortruth.com
www.humanewatch.org
www.mofed.org
www.petbreederandowners.com

(Report Comment)
connie crewse October 6, 2010 | 6:37 p.m.

http://www.unitedformissouri.org/statewi...

VOTE NO on PROP B and tell the animal activists to get out of our STATE!

(Report Comment)
Joe McLoughlin October 7, 2010 | 5:12 a.m.

what about activists who were born and raised here? is it not their state too? who gets to decide who "us" is when deciding questions about "our" state?

(Report Comment)
Helen (not the actress) Hunt October 7, 2010 | 1:05 p.m.

-http://tl.gd/5v7q7v USA ITS OUR RIGHT! ASPCA PETA HSUS CAT DOG FARM GOD CHRISTIAN RESCUE) #nokill TO OBAMA, BIDEN SENATORS

CALI SCHWARZENEGGER http://tl.gd/6c10sk VETOS ASPCA PETA HSUS FARM ASSAULTS AB241 MO.PROP B God #nokill farms dog cat

=ASPCA PETA HSUS BREAKING NEWS! http://tl.gd/6blhe8
MISSOURI PROSITION B. DOG CAT FARM GOD CHURCH CHRISTIAN RSPCA OSPCA

(Report Comment)
connie crewse October 7, 2010 | 1:21 p.m.

@ Joe

The 'outsiders' in which I'm referring to, is the group:
H$U$! They are corrupt in every way, and the state of Missouri can't afford to lose any agriculture rights. As a matter of fact, NO state can afford to lose any of the agricultural rights.

Who feeds America? Who feeds the vegetarians? Who feeds 3rd world countries? The answer my friend, is the FARMERS....The BACKBONE of the United States of America!!!

But now the activists will say that this has nothing to do with agriculture, it's only about the dogs. WRONG!

As many of the other posts have pointed out, the H$U$ has strategically planted the term: 'domesticated animal' in Prop B. Look up the definition Joe. After you look that up, then tell me what the H$U$'s main goal is. If you can add, the sum of Prop B = ABOLISHING ALL ANIMAL AGRICULTURE!
Again....The Missouri Cattleman's Association is helping us defeat Prop B. They are a very well known, highly regarded, prestigious group that doesn't stick their neck out for just any political issue that comes along. Research them also.
The reason they are helping defeat this, is what I just mentioned up above.....the two key words: 'domestic animal'.

The Missouri Cattleman's Association would NOT be on board with this if it was just a dog issue. What part of this can you not understand?

I strongly urge you and everyone else to use Bark Alert if you want to shut down sub-standard facilities. Professional, licensed, breeders wanted to have somewhere to go and report these animal abusers and to have them shut down. They are the reason that we've ALL have been painted with the same brush. It's completely out of hand with all the hyped up propoganda by the H$U$ to emotionally manipulate the public into thinkning that ALL breeders have horns coming out of their heads (figureatively speaking that is).

Are there bad shelter groups? YES! I've seen first hand a shelter group on a Saturday in front of PetsMart in Springfield Mo. They had STACKED cages complete with SICK, BONEY dogs that were all mixes of ??? The closer you came to the front of the store, the more the smell would knock you down! A lot of the dogs were squirting diarhea out at least 5ft from their cages! I was appalled!

Which brings me to question this: Why is it okay for shelter groups to stack animals the way I saw it, and try to pawn a sickly animal off for a 'donation' to an unsuspecting person? Sounds a lot like what the humaniacs are trying to stop breeders from doing! What's good for the goose, is good for the gander! If that shelter group was treating the animals that way in front of the public, what in the world was the treatment behind closed doors!? Abuse is abuse no matter how long they have them in their possesion! Prop B = Double Standards!

Prop B will NEVER eliminate animal abuse, it's only effect on the state will be millions of dollars that the state simply can't afford!

(Report Comment)
Ruth Elledge October 7, 2010 | 3:48 p.m.

Yep, it's Groundhog Day again, just like every other day since this thread began. :)

I have a copy of the bill in front of me at this moment and I have read it through numerous times. I wish someone would direct me to where it says anything about "domesticated animals" because as often as you all are saying that Propo B is directed at "domesticated animals," I fail to see anything in the bill that mentions any animal other than a dog! And don't come back with "if Prop B passes, it's only a precursor to other animals" because other animal farming issues would have to be passed by the citizenry or the legislature in their own right.

It's all about the dogs. Prop B is ONLY and ALL about the dogs. Still voting YES.

p.s. Anyone hear about the Schlinder's of Mexico Missouri closing their breeding operations at the end of the month? They ONLY list about 700 dogs to be sold... only... 700... dogs! That should make for some good publicity right before the election!

(Report Comment)
Joe McLoughlin October 7, 2010 | 4:28 p.m.

yeah, the Schindlers, who ran over the Channel 2 TV camera. Ruth, you're totally right about reinventing the wheel, Groundhog Day, etc., on this page. Before he got yanked for criticizing those who were attempting to make this a religious issue, my friend BC commented in detail about the use of terms in the bill, and showed how they all bounce back to "dog." Merriam-Webster has absolutely no validity when dealing with legal language...the definitions are all spelled out in the statute and regs. for those who can't spell RSMo, it's spelled RSMo.

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro October 7, 2010 | 4:54 p.m.

("Prop B Supporters: Pet Ownership Is Slavery:
I've read the legislation and the language. On its surface, it seems to focus solely on dog breeders, but it is curious why it is needed as a proposition. The people behind it seem pretty loathsome, and their standard operating procedure seems to be pass simple laws for propaganda wins followed by more stringent laws and regulations from tame legislators.")
http://www.24thstate.com/2010/09/prop-b-...

(Report Comment)
Kate McIntyre October 7, 2010 | 4:56 p.m.

@connie crewse:

First, to address your comment that "This group may think they evolved from a monkey, but I didn't, and I'm not a baboon to believe their ridiculous garbage," please PLEASE please study evolution more thoroughly. Possibly by taking a science class or hey, visiting a library. Evolution has been scientifically proven.

Second, how are H$U$, PETA & ASPCA terrorists? Do you know what a terrorist is? Again, visit a library. They have dictionaries.

Finally, kindly explain what supporting our troops has to do with voting no on prob B. These issues are not mutually exclusive (you can support the troops and animal rights).

Everyone, if you're going to argue a point, please keep it legitimate. Attacking the other side or using fallacious arguments does nothing for those of us who are trying to learn more about this issue and decide how to vote. Thanks!

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro October 7, 2010 | 5:12 p.m.

@Kate McIntyre:
Religion and etiquette aside, which way are you currently leaning as to voting Yes or No on Prop B?
In case you haven't heard, I've done my research and will be voting No.
How much more info do you need?

(Report Comment)
Helen (not the actress) Hunt October 7, 2010 | 6:04 p.m.

KATE_MCINTYRE First, a lot of things have been "proven scientifically", only to be refuted later by the same people who made the intial proclamation and most of the time by people who will later prove to be their intellectual superior. And even more so, as we christians believe by God the Almighty. Secondly .. You can commit "terroristic activity" in many ways. Only a simple minded person would look to a dictionary as their "only" explatitive of the "defintion" of a word.. Many words have derivatives that come from complex and multiple languages. Thirdly. Didn't your mother ever teach you to not "talk down to people" when you are addressing them? Sometimes the "inteligent" thing to say is nothing. PARTICULARLY when it is quite apparent that you have NOT investigated the source of this "bill/law" that will be affecting EVERYONES life involved.. NOT JUST YOURS. If the truth be told, you are probably not even a resident of this state. Don't address people as if they are ignorant.. You see, thats what a TERRORIST would do. They would make argumentative comments or addressing law changes in SOMEONE ELSE'S state that will NOT affect YOUR OWN illicit and fraudulent activities as is happening here with the HSUS and ASPCA, "I" would consider to be an act of terror. The HSUS ASPCA AND YES, PETA their counter part, are causing distress, financial duress and loss of income for thousands of people in this state. AND YES, you should ALWAYS consider PETA when you are referencing Laws and the agendas of ASPCA, HSUS and their vegan "goaled" CEOS, Sayre and Pacelle. Have you not figured out the "ties that bind" there three groups.. If NOT, then it is quite apparent that you should not be addressing this topic in a derogatory manner while insulting and demaning the people WHO ARE THE PRIMARY TARGET OF THIS LAW.. THEY are the people who will be hurt by the passage of this TERRORISTIC bill that will inhibit their ability to make a living, cause financial duress to their county, city and state AS WELL as set precedents (IF YOU KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS, IF NOT LOOK IT UP IN YOUR DICTIONARY).. That will set precedents for all states. If you haven't figured out what the real motive would be in that, then you should not be addressing this topic in a "superior tone". There are ALWAYS precedents with the passage of ANIMAL LAWS of ANY KIND.. Just as there area in any other area.. THIS LAW, if passed will and can LEGALLY be referenced as a "PRECEDENT" in all other states.. Is that ENOUGH motive for you? And PLEASE, I am a simple person who NOW DOES RESCUES, once a breeder.. So EXCUSE, ocassional or repetitive, whichever the case may be, mis-use of punctuation, my grammactial errors, typos and my run on sentences..Seemingly those are the things that are of importance to some of you "over excelled" people.

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro October 7, 2010 | 9:25 p.m.

Snakes are people too?
("Humane Society of the United States (HSUS), The Fund For Animals, and People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA). The PETA are presently under scrutiny by the F.B.I. as a terrorism network because of their admission of funding extremists who have destroyed several facilities by fire. These closely-aligned organizations have remained largely hidden from our notice until recently.")
http://www.cornutopia.com/Corn%20Utopia%...

(Report Comment)
Helen (not the actress) Hunt October 7, 2010 | 9:37 p.m.

I have to tell you Ray and Connie, I don't understand how people in this country can be so ignorant about the agenda of the HSUS, Peta and even the ASPCA who is nearly always acting as the number one supporter of these three groups. There is so much information on the internet that as undiputable proof as to what their real intent is in the passage of these "animal laws".. I don't understand how people of this country who consider themselves to be so "superior" to "us" can't see whats going on for themselves.. Even with the dozens of links and groups that are out there investigating these groups the USGov has not intervened in any real capacity to investigate their illegal and fraudulent tactics.. They allow these rescue groups to tresspass on private property based on "anonymous tipsters". They allow these groups to steal these peoples animals and use the ones they WANT in their "puppy mill donation campaigns" while lying to the public about how MOST of these animals are sent off to already over crowded shelters to be euthanized.. I mean seriously, what is wrong with these people.. They are helping these groups to destroy the farming industry in this country.. The very people that are feeding and clothing them.. They are doing all of this under the guise of an "animal rescue group".. If that isn't "terroristic" in nature, what is?

(Report Comment)
Helen (not the actress) Hunt October 7, 2010 | 10:07 p.m.

HSUS,, Does this sound like the efforts of a "rescue group"?
check out the links on this great #nokill site that expose the coverup actions of groups like the HSUS ASPCA and PETA...

Then ask yourself, "are these the actions of a rescue group"?

http://www.nathanwinograd.com/?p=1559

http://www.nathanwinograd.com/?p=4091

http://www.nathanwinograd.com/?p=765

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro October 7, 2010 | 10:12 p.m.

@Helen:
I always question the motives of any fundraising organization which cons money out of caring people by telling them that if they don't support their cause then the dogs will die or continue to suffer. (Sorrowful pictures truly tug at the heart strings.)
All the while, they don't disclose their true motives. agenda or political lobbying ventures.
So much for full disclosure and truth in advertising for commercials seen on television.
Buyer beware.

(Report Comment)
connie crewse October 7, 2010 | 10:13 p.m.

@ Kate McIntyre

I can say this, you may have come from a monkey, but I am a descendent from Adam & Eve....the Creation from God Almighty. I will not go into any discussion with an atheist about evolving from a monkey, because I will not "cast my pearls before the swine".

You don't need to go to a library to find out the history of the H$U$ and their DIRECT connections to terrorists. They are a dangerous group. They have you fooled just like the theories you put your faith in. Many on here have given fact after fact, truth after truth, and you and the likes of you, reject truth. The H$U$, PETA, and ASPCA spoon feed you lie after lie, and emotionally manipulate you until you are nothing more than a puppet for their destruction, and you embrace it.

Domestic Terrorism is something that everyone should be concerned with. H$U$ has been tied and linked to ALF. ALF is listed by the Department of Homeland Security as being a domestic terrorist organization. Go to your library and learn about it.

So, I WILL support my troops and I will NOT vote for any group that is linked in any way to a group such as ALF. These groups are tearing down our Country one state at a time at a steady pace, while our soldiers are sacrificing their lives for the very freedoms they are TAKING away! You are helping these radicals pave the way with your less than average intellect. Go peel a banana and read a book in the library, and leave the 'heavy' thinking to the common sense people.

Pitiful is all I can say.

VOTE NO on PROP B!

(Report Comment)
connie crewse October 7, 2010 | 10:34 p.m.

@ Helen

There will always be people that reject truth. Since the beginning of time, light and dark, good and evil, oil and water NEVER mix. We are just unequally yoked.

They are weak, so they are exactly what the H$U$, PETA, and all the other radicals prey on. It's the same principle of animals in the wild. The 'wolves' will hover around a 'herd' and watch. They don't just run in and try to catch their food. They carefully, watch and wait. They watch until they know just exactly which ones are the weak, then they come in for the kill.

We just have to keep on keepin on, as they say, and post until our fingers bleed and you never know, you may just give enough information, and hit on something and save one poor soul from voting yes. They are reading these, and I'm positive that the information that has been given on here will shed some light on these corrupt groups, and IF they take the initiative and read up on them, they'll definitely vote NO!

VOTE NO on PROP B!!

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro October 7, 2010 | 10:41 p.m.

("Monkeys Are People Too:
According to the report, people are “adopting” monkeys and living with them as their surrogate “children.” These people call these adopted monkeys their “babies,” and they even dress them up like little infants.")
http://www.dennyburk.com/monkeys-are-peo...

(Report Comment)
Joe McLoughlin October 8, 2010 | 1:42 a.m.

How in the world did evolution get brought into this? Will fluoridated water be next?

(Report Comment)
connie crewse October 8, 2010 | 12:40 p.m.

@ Joe

Fluoridated water COULD be next if the animal activists think it's harming or killing off the microscopic living beings that are found in the water.......;0)

We'll see.........

VOTE NO on PROP B!!!!

(Report Comment)
Kate McIntyre October 8, 2010 | 2:43 p.m.

Like you said, this law can set precedents for all states. So even though I am not a resident of this state, I am affected; I also don't think only residents should learn about issues in the state they're living in, however temporary that might be. I also care about animal rights, which is why I'm trying to learn about the impact of the laws by reading through the coverage and comments. And just because I think animals have rights does not mean I'm a PETA person or vegan. We've had propositions like this come up in my home state that had equally serious repercussions for farmers (this one was about chickens having space) and the economy.

I still don't see what evolution or monkeys has to do with the proposed law. And I think calling the organizations "terrorists" is overly extreme given the intense connotation we assign to it.

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro October 8, 2010 | 3:44 p.m.

("Animal Rights legislation masquerades as Animal Welfare
in order to destroy Human Rights and Constitutional Freedom")
http://www.thedogplace.org/PROJECTS/FBI-...
Vote No on Proposition B.

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro October 8, 2010 | 3:45 p.m.

Do you support Proposition B?
Yes
43%
No
57%
Total responses: 3222

(Report Comment)
Helen (not the actress) Hunt October 9, 2010 | 1:22 a.m.

I consider anyone, any group, any organization to be "terroristic" in nature when they are out to destroy, close down, or impede the ability of an entire industry to be productive. PARTICULARLY when that industry is an industry that provides basic necessity of life such as food production and is a major economic and job producing industry in these states.. There have been numerous post and links that have given that shown direct links and statements given by Sayre and Pacelle who head these groups that in my opinion directly relay their intent, motive and agenda. Several major legislators have even expressed their concerns over the implications of what these groups motives are in pressing for the passage of these laws. Sayre and Pacelle have made it ABUNDANTLY clear in their statements of their "lack of concern" as to whether these "rescue" animals even lived or died. Look at some of the statements made by Sayre and Pacelle that people have posted in the links above. Go to the sites I listed in my last statement. These people Humane.org, #nokill animal rights groups and MANY other groups all over the interent have been investigating these groups for a good while now.. People all over the country and on the internet have in the last three years have began forming a "movement" in an effort to stop the HSUS and these groups who are preying on farmers, breeders, rescues who are mostly nokill groups, even people they are calling hoarders.. They have raised BILLIONS of dollars over the years while preying on breeders and "hoarders" who are in most cases people ho love animals and don't want them to be destroyed and in most cases, they are just concerned citizens who have no rescue group or support to help animals in their communites.. Do you think that the HSUS and ASPCA have showed any concern for these people? NO..They have slandered these people in their efforts to save animals. They have gone in and continally tried to shut down these rescue groups..

(Report Comment)
Helen (not the actress) Hunt October 9, 2010 | 1:24 a.m.

continued The HSUS, ASPCA and PETA fought HARD against OREO'S law, a law that #nokill groups were fighting for in an effort to save all of these animals being euthanized by these "rescue groups" like the HSUS , ASPCA and PETA.. They fought this effort because they didnt' want people to know how many animals that are being KILLED AS A DIRECT RESULT OF THE HSUS ASPCA AND PETAS "life saying PUPPY MILL RAIDS"..They have lied and frauded the people out of BILLIONS of dollar over the years by telling people they were saving these animals.. IT IS A LIE...MOST of these animals are being dumped off on large city HIGH RATE KILL SHELTERS like KERN COUNTY, ATLANTA HS.. These are two of the higest kill rate shelters in the country.. Would an ETHICAL rescue group who cared about animals send these animals to almost certain death? NOPE they would spend that 100-200 MILLION dollars a year that WE donate to them because they say that they are "rescuing and saving these puppy mill dogs from certain death".. The HSUS and ASPCA has no reason to be killing ANY animal.. The claim to have the best vets and animal care specialist in the word yet they dont even attempt to save these dogs.. You dont see anything WRONG WITH THAT? PETA is nothing but a dog murdering machine! Have you looked up their kill stats? They kill an AVERAGE of around 90% of ALL dogs and cats that they "rescue"..In the last several years their "KILL RATE" has reached an astounding 97-98%.. Is there ANYTHING ethical about that? ..

(Report Comment)
Helen (not the actress) Hunt October 9, 2010 | 1:26 a.m.

contined Im telling you, I have been researching these groups.. HSUS and PETA both are continually buying into meat producing factories in an attempt to "regulate" these people out of business. I COMPLETELY understand people wanting humane treatment of animals.. I love my dogs and rescues more than I love most people.. But I am not going to sit by and remain silent when these groups CLEARLY have other motive than just that of "concern for puppy mill dogs". Think about it, If these groups were really concerned about dogs and animal rights, would they be raiding these puppy mills only to dump the animals off on large city shelters where countless thousands of them have been euthanized over the years.. I didn't make this up.. Ive watched these two groups (and peta) for a long time.. Don't you think that a rescue group who takes in in excess of 100 million dollars a year MOSTLY off of the advertisement of "saving puppy mill dogs" would at LEAST have built ONE DOG SHELTER? The HSUS has been in business since the mid 1950's.. NOT ONE SHELTER for dogs. WE ALL know that the bulk of their donation money comes for people who THINK that is where their money is going. There is no denying that fact.. Ive even asked SARAH who was an online TWIITER top spokesperson about this very topic.. She told me (and I have compies in my files) that "it was not the HSUS responsiblity as to what happened to these puppy mill raid dogs once they left them with these city shelters".. I asked her did the HSUS keep any statistics of how many of these dogs were killed? SHE TOLD ME NO!. Does THAT sound like a "rescue group" that is concerned about "saving puppy mill dogs"? Look into their financials. The HSUS right now owns over 130MILLION dollars in realestate.. has 20 MILLION dollars in pension funds (for top ceos) They now employ twenty five attornies who CONSTANTLY file petitons and suits against states like Ohio, Missour, Califorina and countless others in an effort to regulate their farming industries..

(Report Comment)
Helen (not the actress) Hunt October 9, 2010 | 1:28 a.m.

continued.. MANY state legislators have voted against them stating things like "they believe that the passage of these "puppy mill laws were just a first step by these groups in an effort of these two groups to go after the meat producing/farming industries" in their states. Pacelle recent stated that "it was not anyones business how the HSUS spent "THEIR" money.. Sayre stated "it is NOT in the best interest of the public to know how many animals that they euthanized".. BOTH of these groups keep no REAL discenable record of how many dogs and cats that they euthanize.. I call it MURDER.. And as is apparent by their comments, they have NO CLUE as to how many of their "saved puppy mill dogs" are actually KILLED...Then they use the arguement that "these dogs don't belong to the HSUS and ASPCA... Are you kidding me? THEY DO INFACT belong to the HSUS and ASPCA...In the commission of these "raids", they BLACKMAIL these breeders into signing a form.. I have a copy of the ASPCA "raid form".. During these raids the breeders are basically blackmailed into signing these forms.. The form states that the person from whom the animals are being taken relinguishes ALL RIGHTS TO THE ANIMALS.. It goes on to state that they ASPCA can do ANYTHING that they deem necessary with the animals INCLUDING EUTHANIZATION.. What choice does the person have? If they DONT sign them over the state will seizes them and in most cases that nearly always means "automatic euthanization"..In most cases the county doesn't have a place to house them nor the sources to feed them until the matter goes to court.. They will then place liens on the accused person property if they "deem it necessary".. In

(Report Comment)
Helen (not the actress) Hunt October 9, 2010 | 1:29 a.m.

(continued) most cases these people cannot even afford to hire an attorney to fight these groups and their "troops of attornies" who are allowed by the law to gather the evidence, seize the property, film the event for their next "PUPPY MILL RAID COMMERICAL; and then THEY ARE ALLOWED TO TESTIFY AGAINST THE ACCUSED? Do you NOT see a problem with this scenario? How can a breeder, farmer defend themselves in a situation lie this.. Most of the time they have to mortgage their homes and property just to hire an attorney to defend themselves.. MOST of the times they HAVE to plead guilty because they do not have the resources to fight these HUNDRED MILLION DOLLAR RESCUE GROUPS.. Do you NOT see any thing wrong with this? Do you see ANYTHING ethical in this entire scenario? There are A LOT of things that I cant tell you in this short paragraph.. PLEASE read this. statement.. EXCUSE THE gramatical errors etc.. I CANT EVEN GET A RESPONSE from either of these groups online when I ask them about the deaths of these animals.. Don't you think by now they would have responded if it wasn't trues..I have tweeted hundreds of thousands of tweets OUTING their fraud and decent.. NOT ONE RESPONSE.. ALL THREE OF THESE GROUPS BLOCKED ME FROM THEIR SITES.. They don't want the truth out... If the donating public knew the truth about how many tens of thousand of these animals that the HSUS PETA and ASPCA have killed over the years in the name of "puppy mill rescue", they would stop donating... :PLEASE take the time to read this unedited copy.. The origial link was compromised and I havent had time to correct the grammar , punctuation etc.. But the truth is it it...All you have to do is listen... http://tl.gd/5v7q7v (excuse the typos etc) My schedule is limited. I do rescues and have MANY animals to care for right now..DONATION FREE..And I DONT kill

(Report Comment)
Ellis Smith October 9, 2010 | 6:34 a.m.

"I consider anyone, any group, any organization to be "terroristic" in nature when they are out to destroy, close down, or impede the ability of an entire industry to be productive."

Well damn! I guess Carrie Nation (1846-1911) qualifies as a terrorist. Carrie, in case anyone has forgotten (do you mean they DON'T teach this in public schools today?), was a physically large* woman who periodically entered bars and vandalized them with an axe! Sounds terroristic to me.

However, we might argue that the "industry" Carrie was attacking, distilling alcohol and serving it to the public, was not a "nice" one.

Carrie claimed to have received a message from God. Don't all terrorists claim the same? (Currently the message comes from Allah).

* Carrie stood 6 feet tall and weighed 175 pounds. With axe in hand she must have looked spectular.

(Report Comment)
Helen (not the actress) Hunt October 9, 2010 | 8:03 a.m.

Maybe Carrie was a good person who let what she felt to be the ignorant, self indulgent and self destrutive actions of others drive her to a point she felt she had to stop them from harming themselves.. Who Knows? One things for sure.. She wasn't taking in 100-M BUCKS A YEAR for donations from the public to further her agenda while calling herself an "animal rights/rescue group" and KILLING THE RESCUED ANIMALS at the same time.. How we "evolved" to the point that we now equate animal rescue with mass euthanazia? Meaning the HSUS, PETA, The ASPCA and these other "rescue groups' have programmed this nation to believing that "its more humane to euthanize".. Isn't the very wording of that conflictive in nature "euthanization = humane"... KILLING = HUMANE...These very weathy "rescue groups" started calling killing/euthanization humane about the same time that they started reprogramming the public to call DOG POUNDS, HUMANE SOCIETIES...Killing=Humane Dog Pounds=Humane Societies.. I call it "the mental reprogramming of the public BY ANIMAL RIGHTS/RESCUE GROUPS to believe that KILLING IS HUMANE". ANd the public in this country repeats that statement like it came from the bible.. What a sick, pathetic concept.. Read this statement.. This is how I feel about "humane euthanization by hundred million dollar a year rescue groups...

"Humane Euthanization" Is Killing HUMANE or a GENIUS MARKETING PLOY? http://tl.gd/64kehi HSUS ASPCA PETA Today as I was working for..... cont

(Report Comment)
Helen (not the actress) Hunt October 9, 2010 | 8:04 a.m.

Is this nation so mentally ill that we can believe that the mass killing of 4-6 MILLION animals ( and thats a low estimate some university research suggests the number to be as high as 12Million) IS HUMANE? I hope not.. If these rescue groups had any ethics at all they would be spending that 100-200million dollars a year to start FREE SPAY AND NEUTER PROGRAMS and to build shelters.. They wouldn't be buying up hundreds of millions of dollars in realestate/houses, factories, stock, pension funds, paying their CEOS 150-500 THOUSAND DOLLARS a year like the ASPCA PAYS SAYRE.. They would be using this money to save the lives animals.. WE SHOULD EVEN HAVE TO BE TELLING THEM THAT.. THey KNOW what we give this money for. But then again, they wouldn't have a job would they and you wouldn't be donating a 100-200MILLION $ a year to them to save "puppy mill and hoarder dogs"... GIVE TO YOUR LOCAL RESCUE TO STOP THE KILLING and to build shelters in our OWN community..It is the only way to stop the killing.. USe your money to implement spay and neuter programs in your own community to cure pet population AND KILLING... Even more importantly stop donating to these groups who come to us under the guise of rescue while mass euthanizing thousand of animals when it is quite apparent by their CEOS statement that their intent is the extiction of breeding and farming animals in this country.. LOOK THAT UP.. Several statements already made in the above references where these ceos have said that very thing.. Do you not want to see whats going on? All you have to do is click the dozens of links provided in the statements above.. IF YOU WANT TO KNOW THE TRUTH it is apparent.. It took me only a couple of evenings to realize the truth.. The more I read, the more I wanted to know.. Because I LOVE animals and "I" believe that it is NOT humane to kill needlessly. ESPECIALLY when your RESCUE group takes in 100-200M dollars a year and you are sitting on another 150-200 MILLION in assets like the HSUS and ASPCA does..

My point is, How can you trust "animal rescue groups" who kill while taking in hundreds of millions of dollars a year that is supposed to go to save animals and while doing so, programming an entire nation into believing that KILLING IS HUMANE, doing so while sitting on hundreds of millions of dollars in assets? Do you NOT see anything wrong with that picture?...

(Report Comment)
Joe McLoughlin October 9, 2010 | 11:39 a.m.

my comment on fluoridated water was to poke fun at the ultra-conservatives who, in the '50s and '60s, resisted having fluoride put in drinking water (to fight tooth decay), because they thought that the government was going to use it - somehow - to control our minds. some of you are just as nuts. i'm gonna go fry me some bacon. YES on B!

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro October 9, 2010 | 12:23 p.m.

@Joe McLoughlin:
Regular readings of the LA Times during breakfast will turn your brain to mush.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F91GMDeou...

(Report Comment)
connie crewse October 9, 2010 | 4:31 p.m.

@ Joe

I was only poking fun at your comment, so if you thought I was serious about the fluoride, sorry!

I'm very level headed and I do my research BEFORE jumping to any conclusions and voting. This Prop B has nothing in it it that suggests or convinces me that it's going to eliminate the 'bad breeders' in any way! It's only going to cost taxpayers millions, all the while animal abuse will continue on and thrive!

The groups backing this bill are extremists that will lie, cheat and decieve as many as possible to obtain more money in their pockets! They are animal rights groups for pete's sake! That alone should make people do their homework before voting 'yes' on their bill!

If you want to pay more in taxes to make yourself feel better that it will solve the issue, then by all means, blindly vote yes. If you want to keep your money, than by all means vote no! If you want to help stop animal abuse, look around and turn those in that are bad, to Bark Alert. This program is already in place....UTILIZE IT!

Why open the door to a known animal activist group (H$U$) that has a track record of doing nothing but crippling taxpayers for their 'ideas' that never work! Enforce the laws we have in place for crying out loud! Why open the door for them to start chisseling away at our beef, dairy, poultry and swine farms? AGAIN......they have strategically used the term "pet"='domesticated animal'.....why didn't they stick to just 'dog'?........BECAUSE THEY HAVE ULTERIOR MOTIVES!

Go eat your bacon Joe, but remember who worked hard for what is sizzling in your pan.......Last I knew, no veggies tasted like bacon!

DO YOUR HOMEWORK MISSOURIANS! LEARN ALL ABOUT THE HSUS AND THEIR ULTIMATE GOALS BEFORE VOTING!!! IT'S FRIGHTENING TO SAY THE LEAST!

Vote NO on Prop B!

(Report Comment)
Joe McLoughlin October 10, 2010 | 11:34 a.m.

Connie, last time i checked, no dog breeders were involved in getting my bacon to the grocer's. and Ray, you must go through a lot of hand sanitizer listening to the sound of your own sarcastic voice.

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro October 10, 2010 | 12:00 p.m.

Joe, last time I checked, no dog breeders were directly involved in the drafting of Proposition B.
Vote No on Proposition B.
Save the bacon.

(Report Comment)
Joe McLoughlin October 10, 2010 | 12:57 p.m.

no, Ray, that'd be like letting Dick Cheney write energy policy.

http://www.puppymillrescue.com/emmyholly...

(Report Comment)
Joe McLoughlin October 10, 2010 | 2:04 p.m.

and although Schwarzenegger vetoed a similar bill, things aren't any better in CA. this breeding-dog's bones were so thin from malnutrition due to constant pregnancy that she shattered her foreleg jumping off the seat of a couch at her foster home, so badly and in so many places that it had to be amputated. http://www.ararebreedoflove.com/about-ba...

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro October 10, 2010 | 2:52 p.m.

Funny. I always thought that people who have the greatest stake in their livelihood would have some keen insight on how to regulate their own industry.
Leaving these learned, good people who have the most vested interest, out of the loop seems sort of facist in nature.
Even the PTA's are beginning to realize that Parent-Teacher-Administrative-Student Associations make better, more acceptable, reasonable, successful policy for the students.
I guess Animal Rights Activists think business people have little value in what might work best for their dogs, their businesses and the industry.
Knowing that the Dems are in trouble this November, and how well-read on Animal and Agricultural issues many Missourians can be, my guess is that Proposition B will rightfully be voted down in this state.
Hopefully, those who sincerely care about dogs, AND the rights of people, will partner together and enforce the decent laws that are already on the books and not let Animal Population Control freaks interfere with legitimate businesses that have a market to serve, as opposed to this "feel good" legislation which would be disastrous.

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro October 10, 2010 | 3:05 p.m.

("Joe McLoughlin October 10, 2010 | 2:04 p.m.
and although Schwarzenegger vetoed a similar bill, things aren't any better in CA.")

Yea, bummer for the dog.
If HSUS really cared, they would have worked on a better proposition which included input from industry professionals and didn't threaten to make matters worse.

Didn't Obama share horrific sob stories to justify forcing ObamaCare on the populace?
Heck, even here in Columbia, a horrific video was used to get our newest mayor elected and pass a vote for taxpayer paid "safety cameras" in a select, elitist downtown area known as "The District."
Funny part, residents living closest to that area voted mostly against the proposed project and now there's funding issues.
More legislation isn't always the best way to proceed.
I'll be voting No on Proposition B.

(Report Comment)
connie crewse October 10, 2010 | 3:15 p.m.

@ Joe

You are either mentally challenged, or just plain stupid.

"Pet" shall be defined as 'domesticated animal'....Hmmm, that means Joe, that this will pertain to hog farming as well, so say bye-bye to your bacon unless you have a lot of money and can afford to pay out the pork butt! Or, better yet, go buy some hogs and see what REAL work is all about. You and the others on here have NO idea what it's like working hard EVERY day on a farm....but it seems that you and these other 'radicals' want to dictate your philosophies and tell farmers AND dog breeders how to run their business when it's NONE of yours! The ONLY experience you have is watching video clips and cooking bacon in a pan!

It's about the H$U$ and their ulterior motives.....if they really cared about the animals, they would do more than what they do with their donations. Remember, only .05 per every $10 donation goes to an animal! That speaks VOLUMES to most....anyway, most with a brain!

H$U$ has to pay a "lockbox" company more than $4.2 MILLION dollars JUST TO COUNT AND PROCESS THEIR CASH HAULS!

Here's a quote that I found interesting:

"The Humane Society should be worried about protecting animals from cruetly. It's not doing that. The place is all about power and money."
--Robert Baker, HSUS consultant and former HSUS Chief Investigator, U.S. News & World Report

These groups do NOT care about the animals....they are only using people like you that can't think outside the box, and are only brainwashed by their elaborate, pitiful images that you get hypnotized by on TV and the Internet. Heck, if we the farmers and the dog breeders were that wealthy, we could put out the same kind of propaganda and misleading commercials too! We just have other things better to do... like taking care of the animals!

Go eat your bacon that came from a hog, that came from a poor farmer Joe, and remember, that your ignorance and stupidity will be the beginning of the end for Missouri's farming industry if this passes.

Wake up Missourians and don't be fooled by the most corrupt group called: HSUS....they only want to destroy Missouri's agriculture NOT help the poor little puppies and kittens like you would think they do.

Vote NO on Prop B!

(Report Comment)
Mark A Landers October 11, 2010 | 12:33 a.m.

In 1947, Aldo Leopold, known as the "father of modern conservation said, "Conservation, at bottom, rests on the conviction that there are things in this world more important than dollar signs and ciphers. Many of these other things attach to the land, and to the life that is on it and in it. People who know these other things have been growing scarcer, but less so in Missouri than elsewhere. That is why conservation is possible here. If conservation can become a living reality, it can do so in Missouri. This is because Missourians, in my opinion, are not completely industrialized in mind and spirit, and I hope never will be."

As a Missourian I am proud that our state's Conservation Movement set the standard for the rest of the world. As a Missourian I am proud to know that we in Missouri still have an agricultural based economy. My hope is that those Missiourian's whose agrarian roots have been pruned will allow those roots to regrow as they "trust, but verify" the facts of animal husbandry (science).

Missouri and Missourians are being abused by the animal rights industry. Because of our unique connection to nature and our agrarian heritage we must let the world see the real agenda of HSUS and the animal rights industry agenda.

"Purebred pets are at lower risk of surrender to shelters than mixed breeds, and dogs purchased for more than $100 have the lowest risk factors of all."

Of dogs released to shelters "2.5 percent came from pet stores; and 3.9 percent from litters produced in the home.
Nearly 20 percent of the surrendered dogs came from a shelter, and about the same number were acquired as strays."

source
http://www.canismajor.com/dog/surrend1.h...

When the facts would indicate that a Pet Store would be the best place to purchase a dog why do people believe the opposite?

Who labeled Missouri "the puppy mill state" and for what reason?

Please visit http://www.swh.org/site/dogs.cfm

As you view the inventory of dogs for sale please note the number of purebred dogs. Ponder the number of dogs available for sale on this site that would fit the lifestyle of an ageing demographic of baby boomers now downsizing living space due to a slower economy.

It is OK to question the source of the dogs available for sale on this site. It is also OK to question the conditions in which these dogs for sale on this site were raised.

(Report Comment)
Mark A Landers October 11, 2010 | 12:41 a.m.

How did we come to believe that pet shops and the kennels supplying pet shop puppies were the source of the dogs that end up in shelters? How did we come to believe this when the facts would indicate otherwise?

There is a video on youtube that holds the answer. If you can get past the emotionally reactive rhetoric and the emotionally reactive pictures of dogs in deplorable conditions from animal hoarders and extremely substandard kennels by realizing there are already laws in place that have removed them or brought the kennels into compliance, you will hear:

This is "a very emotional experience and so most people will react with their hearts and not necessarily be thinking out or really have the information with which to reason about what's going on." 4:07 to 4:19 "It's about profit" 3:33 Wayne Pacelle's words about buying a puppy.

Wayne Pacelle used this formula to shut down rational thought in good caring people. He is not the "marketing genius" as some have said. He used a very simple, yet one of the most effective, form mind control.

If one watches the video and gets past the emotionally reactive pictures and rhetoric (it's not easy if you care about animals on any level)you will also notice at 4:41 to 5:02 how the signatures to get this initiative on this ballot were obtained. You will see people being shown emotionally reactive pictures and only a the first part of Prop B covering basic animal care already addressed in the current laws.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YJ4tEpbE...

Is this type of intentional deception ethical or even legal?

When you realize how you have been used you should be angry?

Use that anger to further investigate the real agenda of the animal rights industry.

(Report Comment)
Mark A Landers October 11, 2010 | 12:45 a.m.

It is OK to demand that our Attorney General take appropiate legal actions to make HSUS accountable for using this type of deception to take money from good caring people and demand that it is returned to those people.

It is OK to demand an explaination form Robin Carnahan as to how and why she allowed the language of Prop B to come before the people of Missouri when she ran her campaign implying she knew about animal husbanday.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ps-Y7Gzi8...

Robin Carnahan says in her add when running for Secretary of State that her job will be "to run fair elections and cut red tape for business" while alluding to her acquaintance of sound animal husbandry principles by stating, "I think running the family cattle farm may have prepared me best of all.... 'cause I know bull when I see it."

It's OK for Robin Carnahan to apologize to the Missouri public and speaks out against Prop B. It's OK if she takes more lessons on learning how to "spot bull." For if Robin Carnahan has actually had experience "running the family cattle farm" in any manner that might be construed as efficient she will have will probably rounded up the cattle and done some minimum of vaccination procedures. If she has three calves and runs one after the other into a chute to vaccinate them she will have created an assembly line. And of course assembly lines are found in factories.

If Robin Carnahan is guilty of running her "family cattle farm" efficiently then she might be interested in going to the HSUS sites and reviewing the animal rights industry's stance on "Factory Farming".

It is NOT OK to penilize those engaged in american agriculture for being efficient.

It is OK to demand an investigation to remove from the bench a judge that would rule that "puppy mill" is not a pejorative term as used by the animal rights industry. How could any Judge not know that a place where dogs are kept for breeding is called a kennel? How could any Judge be unaware that the term "puppy mill" is a derogatory term created by the animal rights industry to invoke an emotionally reactive response? How could a judge so out touch with reality be trusted to rule on any case?

It is OK to question the ethics of any Veterinarian that has endorsed Prop B when if passed the regulations therein are not based on sound animal husbandry principles and will result in the death of dogs. Please remember that veterinarians are the experts in animal medicine. People having degrees in Animal Science are the experts in animal husbandry.

It is OK for the citizens of our state to treat each other with respect, decency, and common courtesy regardless of one's position on Prop B.

It is NOT OK to vote for a law that will kill dogs.

It is NOT OK to vote for a law restricting our rights to own property.

It is NOT OK to vote for a law that will take people's property without a fair trail.

(Report Comment)
Mark A Landers October 11, 2010 | 12:47 a.m.

What happened to "innocent until proven quilty in a court of law" ? If prop b passes then dog breeders will be found guilty without a trial and punished by having their property taken away. Would you expect that to happen in America (land of the free) or in a Communist or Socialist state?

I have faith that Missourians from the "show me state" will "trust, but verify" and will read ALL of Prop B, ask questions, become informed, think rationally, and Vote NO on Prop B.

Thank you for taking the time to read my posts.

Sincerely
Mark A Landers

(Report Comment)
connie crewse October 11, 2010 | 7:25 p.m.

Prop B, the HSUS Agenda, and the Hitler-Like Spider
By Frank Losey

Satan sometimes “masquerades as an angel of light” in order to try and deceive us. (2 Corinthians 11:14)
“Come into my parlor said the spider to the fly.” This ‘invitation’ sounded sincere to the fly, so why not venture into the parlor of the spider. However, once inside the “parlor” of the spider, the fly found itself caught up in a web of more than lies, and that led to unexpected and dire consequences for the fly.
With respect to the Proposition B Ballot Initiative, the Humane Society of the U.S. (HSUS) may be reprising the role of the spider, as it spends millions of dollars spinning a web of its propaganda as to why Proposition B is a “no-brainer” for everyone to support. After all, who in their right mind would support cruelty to puppies?! But wait a moment. In a Court of Law, one must “Swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.” However, in the court of public opinion, the HSUS is not required to take that oath.”
The following is an illustrative list of the “truths” that HSUS has never told the public or elected officials, and these omissions may call into question the credibility of the HSUS ‘spin’ and ‘propaganda,’ especially as it relates to Proposition B, and to the totality of the ‘Master Agenda’ of the HSUS.

Con't

(Report Comment)
connie crewse October 11, 2010 | 7:31 p.m.

Part 2
The Federal Animal Welfare Act and Missouri Statutes already address the types of cruelty that the HSUS suggests are lacking in Missouri.
Despite repeated written requests that I have made to Mr. Wayne Pacelle, the President and CEO of the HSUS, to identify his repeated but unsubstantiated statement that there are over “3,000 puppy mills” in Missouri, he has never provided a specific list of those ‘phantom,’ unnamed kennels.
The Missouri Pet Breeders Association was the first major state pet breeder association to publicly condemn substandard kennels, and it did so over four and a half years ago. It also publicly condemned all forms of animal fighting - not just dog fighting - before the Vick Trial. Again, despite repeated written requests for the HSUS to publicly acknowledge such condemnations by responsible breeders in Missouri, the HSUS refused to do so.
The HSUS may very well have spent hundreds of millions of dollars on lobbying at the Capitol in Washington DC and at state capitols throughout the U.S., but has spent precious little on direct care of dogs in local animal shelters, such as those located in Missouri. This fact is supported by the claims of the HSUS that it was responsible for the passage of more than 25 federal statutes, more than 500 state statutes, and more than 25 other state ballot initiatives.

Con't

(Report Comment)
connie crewse October 11, 2010 | 7:37 p.m.

Part 3

The majority of these 550 plus statutes and ballot initiatives had to do with issues other than dogs and puppies, which suggest that the agenda of the HSUS is like a cancer that is not isolated, but will spread to other issues that affect the ‘American way of life, as opposed to just dogs and puppies.
HSUS spent nearly $6 million in support of the ballot initiatives in California and Ohio, which had nothing to do with dogs. They affected farmers! And the ballot initiative in California has caused the price of eggs to sell for up to $7 a dozen!
HSUS is currently opposing a ballot initiative in Arizona which would affect the right of Arizona to control “wildlife issues.” Is it the role of the Washington DC based HSUS to dictate what Arizonians do in their State? If so, then why not allow HSUS to control whatever it believes is best for all Missourians - not just breeders, but ALL MISSOURIANS?! Perhaps, Missourians should be wary of HSUS’ spider-like advice!

Con't

(Report Comment)
connie crewse October 11, 2010 | 7:43 p.m.

Part 4

Mr. Pacelle describes all “responsible breeders” as “puppy millers;” all “family farmers” as “factory farmers,” and all “responsible hunters” as “poachers.” Since he describes all “responsible hunters” as “poachers,” one is left to wonder what is his unspoken position on gun control?!
The HSUS has already contributed, according to the Missouri Ethics Commission, over $1.75 million towards its “direct” lobbying efforts in support of Proposition B, which Mr. Pacelle describes as a “political campaign.” However, the HSUS has never mentioned how much, if any, it has contributed to local animal shelters in Missouri. Additionally, Mr. Pacelle and the HSUS have been orchestrating “fund raising parties” not only in Missouri, but from coast to coast - from California to a gala event in New York City - to raise millions of dollars to run TV advertisements in Missouri which focus on the ‘HSUS spin’ in support of Proposition B, rather than telling the “Truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.”
The Missouri Ethics Commission data confirms that individual contributors, who reside outside of Missouri, have cumulatively contributed, with the urging of the HSUS, well in excess of one million dollars - one single contribution was for $250,000 - for the HSUS sponsored “Vote Yes on Prop B” campaign in Missouri. In fact, approximately 95 percent of all financial contributions in support of Proposition B have come from contributors who reside outside of Missouri! And again, no mention by the HSUS of any financial support of a single animal shelter in Missouri.
The HSUS published and presented to President Obama its “Change Agenda for Animals.” The “Change Agenda” is incredibly comprehensive, and it would affect almost every aspect of the American way of life in that it includes a total of 102 “Action Items” for 20 different federal departments and agencies such as the Departments of Defense, State, Justice, Treasury, Commerce, Interior, Health and Human Services, Education, Transportation and Agriculture, as well as the Food and Drug Administration, the Federal Trade Commission and the Environmental Protection Agency. (As a military retiree who served on active duty throughout the entire period of the Vietnam War, I personally and professionally was appalled to read Action Item Number 89 of the “Change Agenda.” This Action Item advocates that the Department of Defense curtail certain types of training for military doctors and medical personnel who must treat the battlefield wounds of our young men and women who are so honorably serving our Country in Iraq and Afghanistan.)

Con't

(Report Comment)
connie crewse October 11, 2010 | 7:48 p.m.

Part 5

If Mr. Pacelle and the HSUS truly cared about the rights of law-abiding citizens, why does he refuse to condemn those who explicitly violate the “Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act” - a Federal Terrorism Act; and why did he describe, in writing, the Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act to be an “unjust law?”
Employees of the HSUS and the Humane Society of Missouri orchestrated in November 2009 the confiscation of 25 horses from a person who owned a livery and riding stable in Arkansas in a manner befitting Hitler’s Storm Troopers. The confiscation was based on allegations that the horses were abused. Felony criminal charges were filed against the owner of this “Animal Enterprise,” and the owner was required to post a $20,000 bond to stay out of jail. In February 2010 the horses were returned to the owner, and in August all criminal charges were dropped against the owner without a trial. The owner has now filed a complaint with the FBI and has alleged that employees of the HSUS and the Humane Society of Missouri violated the “Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act.” Could this be the reason ‘WHY’ the HSUS will not condemn those who violate the Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act?
The parent company of Ringling Brothers Circus filed a lawsuit earlier this year in the District Court of Washington DC. The lawsuit alleged that the HSUS, and one of its most senior attorneys, engaged in RICO (Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act) related activities that included money laundering. That allegation is based on findings of a judge that dismissed an original lawsuit against the parent company of Ringling Brothers that had been filed by the HSUS and the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals. Does this RICO-RELATED LAWSUIT raise a question as to the ethical conduct of the HSUS?
Although the HSUS is not a pedophile, its agenda touches children as young as 5-years-old. In this regard, it has published and distributed a Humane Guide for Kids, and this guide includes a section that tells children as young as 5-years-old how to call elected officials and urge them to support the HSUS agenda - an agenda that goes far beyond dogs and puppies. Parenthetically, didn’t Hitler try and ‘brainwash’ young children?

Con't

(Report Comment)
connie crewse October 11, 2010 | 7:52 p.m.

Part 6

The HSUS has been buying small quantities of shares of food manufacturing companies and fast food companies in order to try and alter the manner in which these companies prepare and distribute food products. When the HSUS urged McDonalds to alter its menu, McDonalds, in essence, told HSUS “Thanks, but no thanks,” because it preferred to focus on “science” rather than the HSUS rhetoric.
The Internal Revenue Service (IRS) has assigned a case file number to its audit investigation of the Humane Society of Missouri (HSMO) (2010-003995), which has joined forces with the HSUS in support of the Proposition B Ballot Initiative. The IRS audit is based upon documentation that establishes that the Humane Society of Missouri has exceeded the substantial part threshold for “TOO MUCH LOBBYING” by a tax-exempt, public charity. If the IRS determines that the Humane Society of Missouri has engaged in “TOO MUCH LOBBYING,” the IRS may rescind its tax-exempt status and assess back taxes and penalties against the Humane Society of Missouri because of non-compliance with the Internal Revenue Code and IRS Regulations.
The IRS has also assigned a case file number to its audit investigation of the Humane Society of the U.S. (29-920112). The IRS audit of the HSUS is partially based on over 1,275 pages of documentation that detail the breadth and magnitude of the lobbying activities of the HSUS, and which indicates that the HSUS has expended over $200 million on lobbying - an amount that far, far, far exceeds what the HSUS has spent on direct care of animals in animal shelters. If the IRS determines that the Humane Society of the U.S. has engaged in “TOO MUCH LOBBYING,” the IRS may rescind its tax-exempt status and assess millions of dollars of back taxes and penalties against the HSUS because of its non-compliance with the Internal Revenue Code and IRS Regulations.

Con't

(Report Comment)
connie crewse October 11, 2010 | 7:54 p.m.

Part 7

The Office of the Inspector General for Tax Administration for the Department of the Treasury has also assigned a Case File Number (55-1005-0025-C) to its own internal review of the lobbying activities of the HSUS.
Even though Mr. Pacelle founded the Humane Society Political Action Committee, which has filed over 2,300 pages of lobbying related information with the Federal Election Commission; and even though Mr. Pacelle and his two most senior Vice Presidents have lobbied members of Congress extensively; and even though the HSUS claims responsibility for the passage of more than 25 federal statutes, these three senior HSUS Executives may not be in compliance with the Lobby Disclosure Act, A federal statute, because a search of the records maintained by the Clerk of the House of Representatives and the Secretary of the Senate do not reflect receipt of lobbying reports from those three individuals, notwithstanding the explicit requirements to do so as set out in the Lobby Disclosure Act.
The above list is illustrative of how pervasive the HSUS has become in trying to influence and affect the American way of life of not only the hard working, tax-paying, caring, federally licensed and inspected breeders, but also farmers; cattle, hog and chicken ranchers; horse owners; hunters; military personnel serving in ‘harm’s way;’ food manufacturers; fast food restaurants; elected officials; the American public; voters; and even our 5-year-old children, and in so doing, the HSUS has not ‘Told the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.’
Before you cast your vote on Proposition B, ask yourself: “Do I do as the HSUS from Washington DC tells me to do, even though the HSUS may not have told me the whole truth; and may be a TAX CHEAT; and may have violated the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act; and may not have complied with the Lobby Disclosure Act, or do I do what is best for my children, the State of Missouri and the United States of America?”
Just as many conscientious Germans lived to regret the alluring rhetoric of Hitler; and just as the fly died as a result of the alluring rhetoric of the spider, voters in Missouri could live to regret accepting, at face value, the alluring rhetoric of the HSUS. VOTE NO on Proposition B on November 2nd!

Frank Losey

(Report Comment)
connie crewse October 11, 2010 | 7:56 p.m.

Who is Frank Losey?

Franklin W. Losey is an attorney licensed to practice law in the States of Ohio and Kentucky and also licensed to appear before the U.S. Supreme Court who has submitted written legal briefs that have been considered by the U.S. Supreme Court. He has served as a United States Air Force Judge Advocate; was assigned to the Pentagon as the Director of Civil Law, where he supervised over 100 military and civilian attorneys; provided legal guidance to the Air Force Chief of Staff and other General Officers assigned to the Pentagon. Since 1990 Mr. Losey has interfaced with Presidents of multi-billion dollar corporations, Members of Congress and their key staff, and senior members of the Executive Branch of our Government. During this period he successfully orchestrated actual statutory changes to Title 10 (Armed Forces), Title 18 (Crimes and Criminal Procedure - Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act), Title 26 (Internal Revenue Code), and Title 41 (Public Contracts) of the U.S. Code. He was also successful in effecting changes to regulations promulgated by the Department of Defense, U.S. Coast Guard, Department of Agriculture, OSHA, EPA and the International Maritime Organization and has spoken on behalf of the U.S. Government at an Organization of Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD). Mr. Losey’s passion for representing responsible dog breeders is based on his commitment to repay Chaucer, his beloved Yorkie, who he treasured for over 18 years who came from a breeder in Missouri. Mr. Losey may be contacted via email at f.losey@insightbb.com.

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro October 11, 2010 | 7:57 p.m.

("AND NOW "THE REST OF THE STORY" ABOUT THE HUMANE SOCIETY OF THE U.S.")
http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/...

(Report Comment)
James Browning October 11, 2010 | 9:34 p.m.

Please youtube.com Oprah and puppy mills. You will learn and see the truth finally!!

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro October 11, 2010 | 11:46 p.m.

("...Oprah, as a revered and iconic African American and a woman who has broken so many racial and gender barriers, would invite HSUS - an organization responsible for facilitating the racial profiling, redlining, and the deprivation of basic civil rights of so many people - especially African Americans, Latinos and other people of color.")
http://www.dogpolitics.com/my_weblog/200...
("I also didn't expect Oprah to treat a group of people as criminals for breeding animals nor did I expect her to pretty much accept what the HSUS cared to feed her. There are a lot more sources of information out there and there are better sources. There are ways to analyze the information that is given by the sources that Oprah chose to air. The HSUS also no doubt has made a lot of profit this weekend on the backs of "those who were born to die." Oprah seems to be unfortunately unaware that the HSUS has made public statements against and campaigned against all breeding of domesticated animals. She also seems unaware of the accusations of misconduct during the "raids" that the HSUS has conducted on alleged puppy mills. There is a reason why the HSUS stayed mostly in the background on the show and let MLAR take front and center. The reputation of the HSUS has been decaying for a long time now.")
http://www.oprah.com/community/thread/48...

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro October 12, 2010 | 12:00 a.m.

("Despite the fact that Winfrey agreed to a follow-up interview with the NCBA's policy director, the industry took legal action anyway, with a $2 million lawsuit filed against Lyman and Oprah by beef feedlot operator Paul Engler. The suit charges that Lyman made "biased, unsubstantiated, and irresponsible claims against beef..."

The lawsuit against Lyman marked the historic first test case for a new legal standard which the agriculture industry has spent the past five years lobbying into law in more than a dozen U.S. states - "food disparagement." Engler's attorney describes the suit as "an historic case; it should make reporters and journalists and entertainers - and whatever Oprah considers herself - more careful.")
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1...

(Report Comment)
Helen (not the actress) Hunt October 13, 2010 | 7:25 a.m.

Frankly Put, I don't see how you can write a law that regulates "PUPPY MILLS" when the United States Supreme Court will NOT even define what a "puppy mill" is? Are we allowing the HSUS and ASPCA to now dictact the legal terminology as well?

(Report Comment)
Mark Foecking October 13, 2010 | 8:05 a.m.

James Browning wrote:

"Oprah and puppy mills. You will learn and see the truth finally!!"

Oprah is interested in ratings. Ratings, in her business, come from the spectacular presentation of controversial material. The fact she had some videeos of some bad breeders put together does not mean even a small portion of them are really that way.

What's the flavor of Kool-Aid for today?

DK

(Report Comment)
Helen (not the actress) Hunt October 13, 2010 | 8:36 a.m.

Frankly put, I don't see how you can write a law that regulates "PUPPY MILLS" when the United States Supreme Court will NOT define what a "puppy mill" is? Are we allowing the HSUS and ASPCA to now dictate the legal terminology as well? Personally I believe that it is time that farmers, breeders and the meat producing industries in this country turn this around before it is too late.. I believe that a class action lawsuit may be appropriate based on the aggressive actions of these groups. The term Puppy mill is a term that originated in use by "rescue groups" such as the HSUS and ASPCA in their efforts to draw sympathy and support from the
donating public.. It is SLANDEROUS both in origins when used by both the HSUS and ASPCA.. It has clear malicious and slanderous intent and does NOT have legal definition. Therefore I believe that it is grounds for a class action lawsuit for the breeding industry as a whole who has suffered irreparable damage from the usage of this derogatory term.

The raids: I believe that the law has allowed the use of unethical practices to be
carried out by the HSUS and ASPCA in the commission of these "puppy mill raids". I believe
that
1. The HSUS and ASPCA have been allowed to particpate in a capacity WAY beyond that of
a rescue group. A "private rescue group" has been allowed by the law to trespass
on private property without the owners permsission during these raids
2. A Private rescue group is allowed to seize property
3. A private rescue group is allowed to gather evidence.
4 A private rescue group is allowed to film the entire event for profit
(meaning we all know that these PUPPY MILL AND HOARDER (LEGAL TERM COMMERICAL
BREEDER) raids for years have been the real source of the HSUS
and ASPCA's draw and the real reason people donate 100-200M yr to save "puppy mill
dogs".
5. The HSUS and ASPCA ( a monetarily biased witness) is then allowed by the law to
testify against the accused.
6. The HSUS and ASPCA both provide your local law with a form that you are "persuaded"
to sign that absolves both of these groups of any legal repercussions. It plainly
states that these groups can take your animals and do anything with them that they
deem necessary. It states "even if that means euthanization". It also thats that
neither YOU NOR YOUR FAMILY can file suit against the ASPCA or HSUS or are allowed
to get your animals back unless THEY decide that you can have them back..

(Report Comment)
Helen (not the actress) Hunt October 13, 2010 | 8:39 a.m.

PART 2. In all essence these rescue groups are being allowed to act a legal capacity? Can this even be legal? A witness who is profiting in excess of 100MILLION dollars a year of
the ILLEGAL usage of the term PUPPY MILL is being allowed to gather tresspass onto private
property, gather evidence against the accused, seize the property of, FILM FOR PROFIT, and then
allowed to be the "primary witness against the accused" in court? IS NO LESS THAN AN INCREDIBLE
WITNESS.. What ethical judge would allow the same people who just gathered the evidence, filming with the intent of televising the onslaught while profiting millions of dollars to
be considered to be a "reliable witness"?

Look up the origins of the word Puppy Mill. The term it self is considered to be SLANDEROUS
to ANY BREEDER.. Any citizen when asked will calls a large scale breeder a "PUPPY MILL"..
It is COMMON KNOWLEDGE that the HSUS and ASPCA who are the primary origins of that terminology in a deragatory manner and have used that term relentlessly for decades to degrade
and cause defamation to breeders. They have used that term to illegally pull in billions of
dollars in the name of "puppy mill rescues" while mis-leading the public into believing that
they were "saving puppy mill dogs" from a life of abuse while continuing their onslaught against the breeding industry as a whole. They have mis-used this term while incorporating and hurting ALL of the breeding industry while pursuing what they refer to as PUPPY MILLS.

AS STATED ABOVE

Mr. Pacelle describes all “responsible breeders” as “puppy millers;” all “family farmers” as “factory farmers,” and all “responsible hunters” as “poachers.” Since he describes all “responsible hunters” as “poachers,” one is left to wonder what is his unspoken position on gun control?!

(Report Comment)
Helen (not the actress) Hunt October 13, 2010 | 8:41 a.m.

PART 3

It is apparent in the above statement that the true intent of Pacelle and the HSUS is very clear.. He has intentionally and relentlessly slandered ALL breeders, farmers and hunters in an effort to gain public support and financing for his agenda. Both the HSUS and ASPCA have done so with OUT any regard as to the damage that they have done to the breeding and farming industry as a whole.. They have maliciously sought to destroy the breeding and farming industry without any regard as to the financal stress and duress that they have caused to ALL breeders and farmers in general.. I believe that it is time that the farming and breeding industry as a whole form a "pot" to hire a group of capable attornies who have family members and orgins in the farming industry, WHO KNOW THE INDUSTRY, to address this slander and fraud that is being perpertated upon the American donating public and has caused continual and intentional duress and stress to the farming industry as a whole.. It is time that we put a stop to this onslaught, slander and defamation before we loose any more of our farms and industry. I believe that there are countless farmers and breeders around this country who would GLADLY contribute to the funding of such action. If we don't do it soon it will be too late.. These groups are changing these laws and gaining public sympathy, support and financail backing at an alarming rate by use of illegal raid tactics and defamatory terms. You are allowing the HSUS, ASPCA, PETA and these "rescue groups" to use unethical tactics to "regulate" our farming industry out of business.. Am I the only one who believes that these attacks on breeders /hoarders/ and other rescue groups perpetrated by these two groups SHOULD BE illegal and considered by law to be unethical, defamatory and slanderous to ALL three of these groups in nature and purely have malicous intent even by willingful and intentional deragatory terminology itself meaning the usage of the terms "puppy mills and hoarders" BOTH of these terms have been used as no less than donation scam terminology and have for years been used and the primary basis of nearly all donation campaigns by both of these groups while they have relentless slandered and caused financial harm to these industries as a whole.. WAKE UP AMERICA...WAKE UP FARMERS, BEFORE ITS TOO LATE..

(Report Comment)
Helen (not the actress) Hunt October 13, 2010 | 8:50 a.m.

SORRY about the format was copied and pasted..

(Report Comment)
connie crewse October 13, 2010 | 9:06 a.m.

Well the HSUS is at it again! Beware! Anyone that speaks out against them will surely hear from them one way or another. Read: http://petbreedersandowners.com/

Seems to me that they should take their time, energy and money and put it to better use.....like, say, um.... HELPING OUT ABUSED ANIMALS?......Well, apparently, they'd rather 'chase their own tail' and file meaningless complaints to strong arm and bully people into keeping quiet!
We will NOT be quiet any longer HSUS! You've come into the wrong state if you think we are just a bunch of hillbillies that will crumble at your 'scare tactics'....or should I say, 'terrorist tactics'! You WILL lose on Nov 2 and it will be a glorious day for MISSOURI!

Vote NO on Prop B and tell this radical, anti-AMERICAN group to go back to the hole in which they crawled out from!

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro October 13, 2010 | 10:29 a.m.

Seems like Chicagoland thugish lefty liberal progressive use of charitable contributions which were sucked out from those who were really moved by those sad, sad visuals of pups in distress.
My guess is that many of those good-hearted people, who give charitable contributions to H$U$, probably don't do any research on the internet.
Obama may have won office, thanks to the internet.
Proposition B will be voted down in Missouri, thanks to the internet.
November's right around the corner.
All they can do is blow smoke.
It is clear to me that if the Proposition was "business-friendly" then it would have had a provision for good breeders to merge and maximize their resources and acerage so that they could continue providing their services and cash flow. This proposition was obviously not written to protect the good humane businesses and Missouri's economic interests.
In spite of the horrible photographs they put before me, I have done my homework.
Do the righteous thing and Vote No on Proposition B.

(Report Comment)
Helen (not the actress) Hunt October 13, 2010 | 10:43 a.m.

CONNIE.. Now I think people are getting it when I have been calling them terrorist... They run from state to state "raining terror" on breeders, farmers and other rescue groups. As of late MOSTLY #nokill rescues... Something has to be done.. Its time for the feds to step in.. Its time for our legislators to do their damn jobs and put a stop to this.. IT IS YOUR JOB to protect our farms and breeders from these TERRORIST... USGov, STATE OF MISSOURI, ALL OTHER STATES, Its time that YOU, OUR ELECTED OFFICALS TO DO YOU JOB and investigate these TERRORIST who are running rampant on our OWN AMERICAN SOIL in their deliberate attempt to defraud the American donating public and destroy the farming and breeding industry as as whole.. .OBAMA, BIDEN, STATE OF MISSOUR, GOVERNMENTS TIME TO SPEAK UP!... Im glad at least at least California's governor Schwarzenegger had the integrity to do the RIGHT THING.. I have come to the conclusion that most of our legislators just dont have any back bone at all anymore to stand up against these TERRORIST and DEFEND YOUR OWN PEOPLE... Missourians, REMEMBER who stood with you on election day.. REMEMBER the judges who have helped thes HSUS and ASPCA to committ these heinous acts against the farming industry of your state.. A VIABLE RESOUCE.. When election time comes around... LET YOUR VOICE BE HEARD AND VOTE NO TO PROPOSTION B...AND EVEN MORE IMPORTANTLY RESEARCH ALL OF YOUR LEGISLATORS who have helped the HSUS and ASPCA push against your state and its IMPORTANT industry FARMING...TAKE THEM OUT OF OFFICE AND LET THEM KNOW THAT YOU WANT STAND FOR THEIR PAID OFF LOBBYING TACTICS.. They are supposed to be protecting YOU, the farmers and industry in your state.. They are NOT supposed to be supporting UNETHICAL, HUNDRED MILLION DOLLAR COROPORATIONS who run RESCUE groups as a side job to coverup their agenda!.. let your voice be heard SHOW UP ON ELECTION DAY AND PUT A STOP TO THIS ONSLAUGHT TO DESTOY THE FARMING AND BREEDING INDUSTRY IN YOUR STATE!~... VOTE NO TO RE-ELECTING THESE OFFICALS AND VOTE NO TO PROPOSTION B!

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro October 13, 2010 | 10:47 a.m.

("The next speaker to take the stage was Chris Chinn from the Farm Bureau. She explained how Prop B is a stepping stone for radical groups to change animal agriculture like they did in California. One of the major goals of HSUS is to create a meat free society and to give animals the same rights as people. Prop B is only step one of this initiative.")
http://thebaconblogger.blogspot.com/2010...

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro October 13, 2010 | 11:03 a.m.

("A sad side effect of the battle for Proposition B (puppy mills) is my sympathy for small farmers has tanked http://bit.ly/bPUUtG
2:23 PM Oct 8th via web
.shelleypowers
Shelley Powers")
http://twitter.com/shelleypowers/status/...

(Report Comment)
Harold Samson II October 13, 2010 | 11:07 a.m.

People who are ok with puppies suffering will vote NO on Prop B

(Report Comment)
Harold Samson II October 13, 2010 | 11:09 a.m.

Puppy mills are concentration camps for dogs, I have heard said. It is true. Dogs, in this country, are not valued as a "crop" but man's best friend. The puppy mill mentality works in the Koreas, where they eat dogs.

(Report Comment)
Harold Samson II October 13, 2010 | 11:11 a.m.

I want to express my deep thanks and gratitude to the Humane Society for giving so much money to the puppy mill cause. The airways are flooded with commercials. It is wonderful!

(Report Comment)
Helen (not the actress) Hunt October 13, 2010 | 11:26 a.m.

The only people who would vote YES to propostion B are the easily led who just don't care enough to research the HSUS and ASPCA and their agendas.. If you think this laws is ONLY an effort to save PUPPY MILL DOGS, than you are being foolish... Answer one question? If the HSUS REALLY cared about saving puppy mill dogs, Don't you think that in 65?? years of existence they would have built at least ONE DOG SHELTER? Insteady they dump these dogs off on large city HIGH RATE KILL SHELTERS like Atlanta H.S. Kern COunty (one of the most notorious kill rate "rescues in the USA), Chicago...The list goes on and on... Are these the actions of a CARING ANIMAL RIGHTS/RESCUE GROUP? .. Get real... You people had better take off your "stupid hats" and get onlies and do some research...

ASPCA PETA HSUS) #nokill TO OBAMA, BIDEN EACH AND EVERY SENATOR, (cont) http://tl.gd/3668o7

INQUIRING MINDS WANT TO KNOW" what happens to the UNWANTED LEFTOVERS after the ASPCA, HSUS PUPPY MILL RAIDS? http://youtu.be/CvpL2vh3rrg

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro October 13, 2010 | 11:34 a.m.

("Harold Samson II posted:October 13, 2010 | 11:09 a.m.
Puppy mills are concentration camps for dogs, I have heard said. It is true.")

And here all this time I thought it was the minion of the H$U$-SS which are out to annihilate pure-breds.

How many dogs are put in ovens and have their ashes combed over for gold teeth?
Yet, how many dogs eventually find good homes from good breeders or win ribbons at dog shows?

The industry provides a service and creates cash flow for the State of Missouri. Better enforcement of current laws are appropriate. More legislation, to advance the H$U$-SS agenda in the State of Missouri is just plain foul.
Vote No on Proposition B.

(Report Comment)
connie crewse October 13, 2010 | 1:36 p.m.

@ Harold Samson 11
"Puppy mills are concentration camps for dogs, I have heard said. It is true."

Here we have yet another mindless puppet for H$U$, PETA, ALF, ASPCA and so on, that can only go by what he "hears".

Thank goodness, the majority of Missourians are a 'sho-me' crowd that WILL do their homework and dig a little into the 'hear-say' propaganda from the H$U$. Once the intelligent folks of Missouri do their research on these terrorist groups, Vote NO on Prop B will become an easy choice.

Poor Harold, believes anything that he's told.....Hey, Harold, have you been told yet that Santa Claus isn't real yet?

Vote NO on Prop B!

www.thealliancefortruth.com

(Report Comment)
Helen (not the actress) Hunt October 13, 2010 | 1:47 p.m.

RAY... as I stated before, Hardly ANY of these people who are commentinhave any first hand knowledge of breeding or animals period.. They are quoting things they heard, things they've read....RIGHT ON CUE... Out of the HSUS and ASPCA "puppy mill raid handbook"... ITs nothing but a fraudulent lie that the USGov has allowed to be perpetrated upon the US donating public for decades... I really believe that if the meat, breeding and farming industries don't ban together soon and file a class action lawsuit against these groups from donation fraud, lying to the public, defamation with intent to do financal harm, that these groups are going to continue to get away with "raiding and pillaging" legitimate farms.. This country and the farming industry, AND THE STATE OF MISSOURI, had better get it right on this one!

(Report Comment)
Marq Summers October 14, 2010 | 9:01 a.m.

Dr. Jim Foster has written an article for The Shelbina Weekly newspaper that tells it from a kennel veterinarian point of view. If you want a copy, send him your email address at jimfoster2010@hotmail.com
It is being sent all over the state via email and put in local newspapers.
It is a terrific piece. A real wake-up call. Save our kids.

(Report Comment)
Mark Foecking October 14, 2010 | 12:15 p.m.

Harold Samson II wrote:

"People who are ok with puppies suffering will vote NO on Prop B"

Aren't people more worried about the mothers suffering than the puppies? The puppies become pets and leave the kennel quickly (for better or worse, but that's not necessarily the breeder's fault) Please speak to the argument instead of posting emotional soundbites.

"Puppy mills are concentration camps for dogs"

A concentration camp is a facility for the containment and disposal of politically undesirable elements of a society, typically a despotic one. Last I heard, dogs were very desirable, they or their progeny were actually expected to leave and give happiness to people, and these facilities are not set up for the mass killing and disposal of their occupants. Concentration camps are also non-profit, government organizations. Now what does a "puppy mill" have to do with a concentration camp again?

Use those buzzwords, boy. It doesn't mean you have a valid argument.

"The puppy mill mentality works in the Koreas, where they eat dogs."

Some dogs are eaten all over Asia, actually. Some dogs there are also used for other work, and there is a growing number of pets. Pets are the luxury of a rich society ,and as Asia becomes richer, more people will enjoy companion animals.

This is yet more emotional drivel. The fact that they eat dogs in Asia has nothing to do with dog breeding here.

If you can't add something intelligent to the discussion, don't add anything.

DK

(Report Comment)
Marina Shane October 15, 2010 | 9:42 a.m.

There is a reason why Missouri has 3 times more commercial breeders than any other state in the union. Our laws are the weakest & we are the CESS POOL OF THE WORST BREEDERS in the United States. The Opposition to Prop B is just trying to scare you. Prop B won't take away your cattle, chicken horses, pets, etc. It only adds & clears up regulations already on the books. This regulation is IN ADDITION TO and does not replace the current laws. It makes the current laws easier to enforce & adds penalties besides just fines to offenders.

So glad to see that all you puppy millers are up in arms. There is a special place in H*LL reserved for you with tiny little cages that are stacked on top of each other where you will be pissed & pooped on for eternity with no hope of ever being let out of your misery!

VOTE YES ON PROP B!

VOTE YES ON PROP B!

VOTE YES ON PROP B!

VOTE YES ON PROP B!

VOTE YES ON PROP B!

VOTE YES ON PROP B!

VOTE YES ON PROP B!

VOTE YES ON PROP B!

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro October 15, 2010 | 11:41 a.m.

Amy Wilson:
Welcome to Columbia.
Who are you people?
Do you also shout at all those "Save the Dogs" rallies?
Are you part of the HSUS and Barbara Schmitz traveling side show?
I did my homework and I hope other voters do the same.
I implore those who know me and those who care enough about the state we live in to:
Vote No on Proposition B.
Thank you.

(Report Comment)
connie crewse October 15, 2010 | 2:28 p.m.

Amy Wilson

You are clueless my dear. Missouri has the STRONGEST laws in place....back up your facts!
Another misconeption: wire cages with feces and urine going through to the underneath animals.

NOT TRUE! Any USDA inspected facility would have that written up as a violation, and would have to IMMEDIATELY correct that. No sensible breeder would have animals in cages with no drip pan underneath. That is a ludicrous statement that has simply evolved from the HSUS and you are too weak to know the difference or the truth.

What kind of 'actual' knowledge do you have, or have obtained, from animal husbandry Amy? My guess is that you have no personal experience what so ever in animal husbandry. You are a mindless puppet that speaks only what you learn from the commercials.

Contact the Missouri Cattleman's Association and ask them why they have helped tremendously in the fight in defeating this. Why would they do anything if it didn't pertain to them? It's NOT just a dog issue! I'm quite sure that they know much more about Missouri's agriculture than you do, and they will be glad to give you some FACTS......my guess is that you will not pick up the phone, as you don't want to know the truth.

The HSUS has commercials with heartbreaking images of matted Yorkies.........FROM A HOARDER! Check out the FACTS!

The HSUS has commercials with heartbreaking images of deplorable conditions of a kennel......THAT IS NOT LICENSED! Check out the FACTS!

The TRUTH is out there for ANYONE to get. Amy is simply too lazy and she's a perfect example of what is wrong in America today. She believes anything she sees on TV, then wants to get 'involved' because she is 'emotionally manipulated' WITHOUT doing any kind of research, not even going out and speaking to any licensed breeder. Why? Because she is LAZY! We are of a LAZY generation!
"It's on TV, so it MUST be true!" HA!

Don't be lazy folks! Get the FACTS! Do your homework! The FACTS are all around you just waiting to be found! Don't be too lazy to do a little homework on these corrupt groups!
www.thealliancefortruth.com
www.pijac.org
www.mofed.org

It's not too late! It is for California, but not Missouri!

VOTE NO ON PROP B!

VOTE NO ON PROP B!

VOTE NO ON PROP B!

VOTE NO ON PROP B!

VOTE NO ON PROP B!

VOTE NO ON PROP B!

VOTE NO ON PROP B!

VOTE NO ON PROP B!

VOTE NO ON PROP B!

(Report Comment)
Marina Shane October 15, 2010 | 3:50 p.m.

If you are buying into the LIES on the so called "Alliance for Truth" site which really should be called "Alliance for LIES"... then you really need to do some more research!

And Connie.... your sources you cited:
thealliancefortruth
pijac
mofed

ALL IN THE POCKET OF PUPPY MILLERS! THEY GET THEIR FUNDING FROM THE CRUEL ABUSERS!
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I'LL TAKE MY FACTS FROM:
www.maal.org
www.hsmo.org
www.bbb.org (Even the BETTER BUSINESS BUREAUS SAYS WE NEED REFORM)

I'm a business owner & I run an ETHICAL business...I could CARE LESS if puppy mills shut down! I don't want that kind of money in Missouri & if you are so desperate for money that your willing to torture dogs for it.... then there is a special place in the afterlife waiting for you where it is REALLY HOT & NASTY!
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MISSOURIANS.... WE LIVE IN THE SHOW ME STATE.... HOW ABOUT SHOWING SOME COMPASSION!
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STOP PUPPY MILL CRUELTY
VOTE YES ON PROP B!
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STOP PUPPY MILL CRUELTY
VOTE YES ON PROP B!
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STOP PUPPY MILL CRUELTY
VOTE YES ON PROP B!

(Report Comment)
connie crewse October 15, 2010 | 6:14 p.m.

Marina Shame...sorry, I mean Shane

Prove to me and all the others, that the FACTS given on those sites I gave, are false. You will NOT be able to. Why? Because those sites give information that can not be denied.

You have no idea how my place is kept and/or operated. Another valid point that you've so graciously just given folks to read. You, like all the others, slander all of us dog breeders with the same, malicious LIES of how we are ALL dog torturers and abusers. How do you know that? Have you been to each and every LICENSED (USDA) facility? I will answer for you, and the answer is NO. So, explain to me, and ALL the others that read these comments, how you know that ALL the USDA facilities (show & pet breeders) are torturing their dogs?............The only answer you will be able to give, 'if' you were going to be honest, is you don't know. You are just going by what the HSUS has told you in their commercials.

Do your homework Missourians and you'll see once and for all that the Animal Rights groups do nothing but cripple a state financially once they get their foot in the door. If you want to pay $7 a dozen of eggs and other ridiculous prices for meat, dairy and vegetables, then by all means, vote yes. If you want to keep your domesticated animals (look up the definition folks!) and our farming in Missouri, then VOTE NO!

Here are some disturbing quotes from some Animal Rights groups. Read and learn. Then tell me if these are the groups you want coming into our state dictating to many families on how to run their own businesses! They are LUNATICS!

"Six million people died in concentration camps, but six billion broiler chickens will die this year in slaughterhouses." Ingrid Newkirk, founder, president and former national director, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, as quoted in Chip Brown, "She's A Portrait of Zealotry in Plastic Shoes," Washington Post, November 13, 1983, p. B10.

“Even though people may not have someone in their family fighting in Iraq, American soldiers are seen in the news. But people are not being bombarded with images of cows, sheep, pigs and chickens being abused.” Mary Max, HSUS Board of Directors, Humane USA Board of Directors, member Advisory Board of New York League of Humane Voters, founder of Kind Green Planet, quoted in Greenpoint Gazette interview, October 2008

“We are going to use the ballot box and the democratic process to stop all hunting in the United States ... We will take it species by species until all hunting is stopped in California. Then we will take it state by state.”
— Full Cry magazine, Oct 1990

VOTE NO ON PROP B!!!

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro October 16, 2010 | 1:45 a.m.

("Why do we need Proposition B, the Puppy Mill Cruelty Prevention Act? According to the BBB, the lack of effective enforcement of current laws is what allows puppy mills to thrive in Missouri. The department is underfunded and under-staffed. Missouri inspectors inspect more than twice as many kennels as their counterparts in other states.

Proposition B does not provide funding or mandate more inspectors. It will increase the workload and decrease the already-subpar enforcement of animal welfare laws.

Proposition B arbitrarily limits the number of breeding dogs a person or entity can own to 50. Three dogs can be neglected or abused as easily as 300.

The act would require continuous access to an indoor enclosure with a solid floor, prohibit the stacking of enclosures and require the enclosures be cleaned daily and be kept at a temperature of 45 to 85 degrees. The act also increases the area required per dog. A Labrador-sized dog is required to have 30 square feet; the current law requires 12 square feet. Smaller dogs would require 12 square feet per dog. Under Proposition B, four Yorkies or Chihuahuas that shared an enclosure would require 48 square feet of space. The act is designed to make it economically forbidding to house small dogs.

The act requires continuous access to an outdoor exercise area that is at least twice the area of the required indoor enclosure. It is to be at ground level with solid surface, proper drainage and provide protection from sun, wind, rain and snow. Why require protection from the elements when the act already requires continuous access to temperature-controlled indoor facilities?

Proposition B would restrict a dog to no more than two litters in 18 months. There is no scientific evidence to support this. Research from dog food companies shows no difference in health or life expectancy of dogs bred every cycle from 1 to 12 years of age when compared to dogs with the same housing and nutrition that were bred every other cycle.

Out-of-state organizations helped write and are backing this act. It would destroy a portion of Missouri's economy. We do not need more restrictive laws passed. We need funding and inspectors to enforce the current animal welfare laws. Fully enforcing the current laws would solve most of the issues.

Passing Proposition B would hurt Missouri's economy and lead to less enforcement and more animal neglect.

John R. Stoltz • Franklin County Owner, veterinary clinic owner; board president, Franklin County Humane Society")
http://www.stltoday.com/news/opinion/mai...

(Report Comment)
Marina Shane October 16, 2010 | 3:03 p.m.

The opposition here to Prop B is just spouting off a bunch of SCARE TACTICS from people with vested money interests in skimping as much as possible to make a buck.
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Prop B calls for the following:
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Shall Missouri law be amended to:
•require large-scale dog breeding operations to provide each dog under their care with sufficient food, clean water, housing and space; necessary veterinary care; regular exercise and adequate rest between breeding cycles;

•prohibit any breeder from having more than 50 breeding dogs for the purpose of selling their puppies as pets; and

•create a misdemeanor crime of “puppy mill cruelty” for any violations?
_____________________________

GOOD breeders shouldn't have any issue with Prop B. It's just the ones that don't want to treat their dogs well & skimp on them that do. I'm sorry, but as a breeder if you can't do these simple things, then IMO You are a puppy miller! And i could Care Less what you think!

MISSOURIANS.... WE LIVE IN THE SHOW ME STATE....
HOW ABOUT SHOWING SOME COMPASSION!
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STOP PUPPY MILL CRUELTY
VOTE YES ON PROP B!
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STOP PUPPY MILL CRUELTY
VOTE YES ON PROP B!
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STOP PUPPY MILL CRUELTY
VOTE YES ON PROP B!

STOP PUPPY MILL CRUELTY
VOTE YES ON PROP B!
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STOP PUPPY MILL CRUELTY
VOTE YES ON PROP B!
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STOP PUPPY MILL CRUELTY
VOTE YES ON PROP B!
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STOP PUPPY MILL CRUELTY
VOTE YES ON PROP B!

(Report Comment)
Helen (not the actress) Hunt October 16, 2010 | 4:15 p.m.

VOTE NO TO IGNORANCE AND DECEIT.. VOTE NO TO PROPOSTION B

FORWARD THIS GOOD READING! (ASPCA PETA HSUS) #nokill TO OBAMA, BIDEN EACH AND EVERY SENATOR, (cont) http://tl.gd/3668o7

USA think HUMANE THING 2 do is EUTHANIZING 9.6M DOGS-CATS? U should watch GRAPHIC> http://youtu.be/CvpL2vh3rrg ASCPA PETA HSUS OSPCA RSPCA

CALI SCHWARZENEGGER http://tl.gd/6c10sk VETOS ASPCA PETA HSUS FARM ASSAULTS AB241 MO.PROP B God #nokill farms dog cat

(Report Comment)
Marina Shane October 16, 2010 | 4:27 p.m.

GOOD BREEDERS don't have any issue with Prop B. It's just the ones that don't want to treat their dogs well & skimp on them that do. I'm sorry, but as a breeder if you can't do these simple things, then IMO You are a puppy miller! And i could Care Less what you think!
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STOP PUPPY MILL CRUELTY
VOTE YES ON PROP B!
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STOP PUPPY MILL CRUELTY
VOTE YES ON PROP B!

STOP PUPPY MILL CRUELTY
VOTE YES ON PROP B!
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STOP PUPPY MILL CRUELTY
VOTE YES ON PROP B!
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STOP PUPPY MILL CRUELTY
VOTE YES ON PROP B!
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STOP PUPPY MILL CRUELTY
VOTE YES ON PROP B!

(Report Comment)
Marina Shane October 16, 2010 | 4:28 p.m.

Missourians SHOW ME COMAPSSION this Novemeber!
Vote YEs on Prop B!

(Report Comment)
Helen (not the actress) Hunt October 16, 2010 | 5:05 p.m.

VOTE NO TO DECEIT. EVERYONE WHO TAKES THE TIME TO RESEARCH TTHESE GROUPS NO THEIR DECEPTION... GET ON THE NET.. RESEARCH www.humanewatch.org OTHER GROUPS EXPOSING THE DECEIT, DONATION FRAUD perpertrated by these groups upon the donating public.. They "raid puppy mills" and dump the "saved dogs" off on large kill shelters" like KERN COUNTY, ATLANTA HS and many of the highest kill rate shelters in this country.. They proclaim to save puppy mill dogs while taking in 100-200 MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR in donations BUT DON'T OWN ONE DOG SHELTER... RESERACH THE DECEIT.. Does this sound like the actions of a CARING ANY RIGHTS GROUP... HSUS how can you save PUPPY MILL DOGS when you don't OWN ONE DOG SHELTER!...Right now HSUS and PETA are both under investigation for fraud and other allegations. PLEASE support your farms and the farming industry in your state.. DO NOT BELIEVE THE LIES and DONATION SCAM RHETORIC OF THESE GROUPS... SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL HUMANE SOCIETY AND #nokill RESCUE GROUPS.. THEY are the ones that are REALLY helping animals.. HSUS takes your 100M BUCKS a year in donations for ANIMAL RESCUE and spends less than 1/2 OF ONE PERCENT on animal rescues? They spend more money in an average year on CEO SALARIES AND PENSION FUNDS... DOES THIS SOUND LIKE THE ACTIONS OF AN ETHICAL RESCUE GROUP? DO YOUR RESEARCH PEOPLE.. Research the things being said about EDWIN SAYRE of the ASPCA and PACELLE of the HSUS online.. Do you think all of these people and groups fighting against the HSUS and ASPCA are WRONG? VOTE NO ON PROPOSTION B...

CALI SCHWARZENEGGER http://tl.gd/6c10sk VETOS ASPCA PETA HSUS FARM ASSAULTS AB241 MO.PROP B God #nokill farms dog cat

CALI SCHWARZENEGGER http://tl.gd/6c10sk VETOS ASPCA PETA HSUS FARM ASSAULTS AB241 MO.PROP B God #nokill farms dog cat

CALI SCHWARZENEGGER http://tl.gd/6c10sk VETOS ASPCA PETA HSUS FARM ASSAULTS AB241 MO.PROP B God #nokill farms dog cat

CALI SCHWARZENEGGER http://tl.gd/6c10sk VETOS ASPCA PETA HSUS FARM ASSAULTS AB241 MO.PROP B God #nokill farms dog cat

CALI SCHWARZENEGGER http://tl.gd/6c10sk VETOS ASPCA PETA HSUS FARM ASSAULTS AB241 MO.PROP B God #nokill farms dog cat

VOTE NO ON PROP B!
VOTE NO ON PROP B!
VOTE NO ON PROP B!
VOTE NO ON PROP B!
VOTE NO ON PROP B!
VOTE NO ON PROP B!
VOTE NO ON PROP B!
VOTE NO ON PROP B!
VOTE NO ON PROP B!
VOTE NO ON PROP B!
VOTE NO ON PROP B!
VOTE NO ON PROP B!
VOTE NO ON PROP B!
VOTE NO ON PROP B!
VOTE NO ON PROP B!
VOTE NO ON PROP B!
VOTE NO ON PROP B!
VOTE NO ON PROP B!
VOTE NO ON PROP B!
VOTE NO ON PROP B!
VOTE NO ON PROP B!
VOTE NO ON PROP B!
VOTE NO ON PROP B!
VOTE NO ON PROP B!
VOTE NO ON PROP B!
VOTE NO ON PROP B!
VOTE NO ON PROP B!
VOTE NO ON PROP B!
VOTE NO ON PROP B!
VOTE NO ON PROP B!
VOTE NO ON PROP B!
VOTE NO ON PROP B!

(Report Comment)
connie crewse October 16, 2010 | 10:38 p.m.

Marina Shame....I mean Shane

Aside from this issue, Prop B, I'm just curious what your opinion is of the HSUS, ASPCA, PETA, ALF and other similar, associated organizations?

You've obviously researched them right? If so, do you support such groups?

VOTE NO ON PROP B!!
VOTE NO ON PROP B!!
VOTE NO ON PROP B!!
VOTE NO ON PROP B!!
VOTE NO ON PROP B!!
VOTE NO ON PROP B!!
VOTE NO ON PROP B!!
VOTE NO ON PROP B!!
VOTE NO ON PROP B!!
VOTE NO ON PROP B!!
VOTE NO ON PROP B!!
VOTE NO ON PROP B!!
VOTE NO ON PROP B!!
VOTE NO ON PROP B!!
VOTE NO ON PROP B!!
VOTE NO ON PROP B!!
VOTE NO ON PROP B!!
VOTE NO ON PROP B!!
VOTE NO ON PROP B!!
VOTE NO ON PROP B!!
VOTE NO ON PROP B!!
VOTE NO ON PROP B!!
VOTE NO ON PROP B!!
VOTE NO ON PROP B!!
VOTE NO ON PROP B!!
VOTE NO ON PROP B!!
VOTE NO ON PROP B!!
VOTE NO ON PROP B!!
VOTE NO ON PROP B!!
VOTE NO ON PROP B!!
VOTE NO ON PROP B!!
VOTE NO ON PROP B!!

SAVE MISSOURI'S AGRICULTURE FROM THESE ANIMAL ACTIVISTS!

(Report Comment)
Marina Shane October 17, 2010 | 2:32 p.m.

And on a completely different note....PROPS to RAY SHAPIRO for funniest line in the commentaries here:
I'm not a puppy mill owner, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Select last night." LOVED IT!:)LOL That was great!
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HEY.... RAY! You asked for it... here it is!
(I created a BLOG just to post this rebuttal online for you!:)
It's over 11,000 characters, so I can't copy & paste it in one post!
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Here's the link to my rebuttal:
http://marinashanelewis.wordpress.com/i-...
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VOTE YES! PROP B
Stop Puppy Mill Cruelty!

(Report Comment)
Marina Shane October 17, 2010 | 2:51 p.m.

And BTW, to the person on this board that sells her puppies to research facilites...your opinion isn't worth crap to me, so you deserve no response. (yes I researched your activities). Knowing that you sell dogs for LAB EXPERIMENTS, sickens me. There is a special place in H*ll for you!

(Report Comment)
Marina Shane October 17, 2010 | 2:53 p.m.

This bears repeating here:
GOOD breeders shouldn't have any issue with Prop B. It's just the ones that don't want to treat their dogs well & skimp on them that do. I'm sorry, but as a breeder if you can't do these simple things, then IMO You are a puppy miller! And i could Care Less what you think!

MISSOURIANS.... WE LIVE IN THE SHOW ME STATE....
HOW ABOUT SHOWING SOME COMPASSION!
.
.
STOP PUPPY MILL CRUELTY
VOTE YES ON PROP B!
.
STOP PUPPY MILL CRUELTY
VOTE YES ON PROP B!
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STOP PUPPY MILL CRUELTY
VOTE YES ON PROP B!
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STOP PUPPY MILL CRUELTY
VOTE YES ON PROP B!
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STOP PUPPY MILL CRUELTY
VOTE YES ON PROP B!
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STOP PUPPY MILL CRUELTY
VOTE YES ON PROP B!
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STOP PUPPY MILL CRUELTY
VOTE YES ON PROP B!
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STOP PUPPY MILL CRUELTY
VOTE YES ON PROP B!
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STOP PUPPY MILL CRUELTY
VOTE YES ON PROP B!
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STOP PUPPY MILL CRUELTY
VOTE YES ON PROP B!
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STOP PUPPY MILL CRUELTY
VOTE YES ON PROP B!
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STOP PUPPY MILL CRUELTY
VOTE YES ON PROP B!

(Report Comment)
Helen (not the actress) Hunt October 17, 2010 | 7:36 p.m.

KERN COUNTY, one of the most NOTORIOUS "EUTHANIZING SHELTERS" in the United States.. Kern county is routinely listed as one of the HSUS "partner rescue groups" who "save the puppy mill dogs". Kern county is where the HSUS sends MANY of their PUPPY MILL RAID DOGS... Read this and then tell me if THIS sounds like a place that you would send "rescued puppy mill dogs too"... HSUS doesn't even own ONE dog shelter yet takes in 100-MILLION+++++++++++++++ dollars a year MOSTLY based on their "puppy mill raid commericals" that prey on the unwary donors sympathy...

READ THESE KILL STATS FOR KERN COUNTY HSUS "RESCUE PARTNER"
WOuld an ENTHICAL rescue group send dogs to THIS SHELTER?

Kern Co HS killed 3354 Puppies-Kittens, Reason? "Too young" http://bit.ly/adMwa0

(Report Comment)
Marina Shane October 18, 2010 | 9:59 a.m.

For all the so called "Research" you do on HSUS, you keep forgetting the one major aspect of what HSUS does! HSUS is VERY PLAIN ABOUT THE FACT THAT FIRST & FOREMOST THEY ARE A LOBBY ORGANIZATION FOR ANIMAL WELFARE AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL.
Most of the money donated goes to working on legal campaigns. Animals in our country have no money and no voice when they are abused, neglected &/or tortured. Those in control of animals have the money & the power to make laws. WITHOUT ORGANIZATIONS LIKE HSUS, there would be no one watching the industry to make sure that business is done ethically!
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QUOTE FROM THE ABOUT HSUS PAGE FROM HSUS.ORG:
The Humane Society of the United States is the nation's largest animal protection organization, backed by 11 million Americans. We work to reduce suffering and improve the lives of all animals by advocating for better laws"
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I think that's pretty clear. Most of the physical animal rescue is done by SUPPORTING FINANCIALLY rescues in the local communities.
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Read it yourself at http://www.humanesociety.org/about/overv...
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You just don't like the fact that HSUS calls you BAD BREEDERS OUT ON THE FLOOR IN FRONT OF THE PUBLIC. YOUR SCARED, BECASUE HSUS IS RIGHT ABOUT HOW WRONG YOUR BUSINESS PRACTICES ARE....SO YOU"LL KEEP ON DOING WHAT EVER YOU CAN TO TRY TO DISCREDIT HSUS... AND HSUS WILL KEEP ON SHINING THE SPOTLIGHT ON THE CRUELTY YOU INFLICT ON DOGS. IF YOU REALLY WANT HSUS OUT OF YOUR LIFE... STOP BEING CRUEL & SHOW SOME COMPASSION!
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STOP PUPPY MILL CRUELTY
VOTE YES ON PROP B!
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STOP PUPPY MILL CRUELTY
VOTE YES ON PROP B!
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STOP PUPPY MILL CRUELTY
VOTE YES ON PROP B!
.
STOP PUPPY MILL CRUELTY
VOTE YES ON PROP B!
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STOP PUPPY MILL CRUELTY
VOTE YES ON PROP B!
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STOP PUPPY MILL CRUELTY
VOTE YES ON PROP B!
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STOP PUPPY MILL CRUELTY
VOTE YES ON PROP B!
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(Report Comment)
Mark Foecking October 18, 2010 | 10:17 a.m.

Marina Shane wrote:

"GOOD breeders shouldn't have any issue with Prop B."

Can you name one breeder (that it would apply to) that is for this? Anybody?

DK

(Report Comment)
Marina Shane October 18, 2010 | 10:55 a.m.

Actually, there are MANY GOOD MISSOURI BREEDERS that I know of that support PROP B. After the threats to supporters of Prop B from the opposotion though, I would never reveal their names publicly for fear of reprisal from those crazy, scary people!
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Join me Nov 2, 2010 in VOTING YES! on Prop B!
STOP PUPPY MILL CRUELTY!
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Join me Nov 2, 2010 in VOTING YES! on Prop B!
STOP PUPPY MILL CRUELTY!
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Join me Nov 2, 2010 in VOTING YES! on Prop B!
STOP PUPPY MILL CRUELTY!
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Join me Nov 2, 2010 in VOTING YES! on Prop B!
STOP PUPPY MILL CRUELTY!
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Join me Nov 2, 2010 in VOTING YES! on Prop B!
STOP PUPPY MILL CRUELTY!
.
Join me Nov 2, 2010 in VOTING YES! on Prop B!
STOP PUPPY MILL CRUELTY!

(Report Comment)
Mark Foecking October 18, 2010 | 11:08 a.m.

Marina Shane wrote:

"After the threats to supporters of Prop B from the opposotion though, I would never reveal their names publicly for fear of reprisal from those crazy, scary people!"

That's convenient.

In other words, none of them want to come out publically (say, here) as being for it.

Sorry, but I don't believe that any professional breeder (unless prop B would not apply to them, which may be the case for many of these breeders) could support this. There's also the point that this kind of regulation can serve as a foundation for even more restrictive legislation in the future (as I have noticed with research animal regulation).

We don't need this. We need better enforcement of existing law. That will help more dogs, more quickly, than prop B will.

DK

(Report Comment)
Marina Shane October 18, 2010 | 11:26 a.m.

After attending a meeting where threats were made to supporters of Prop B such as "Be Careful on your way home, we know how to find you" & another crazy guy going up to supporters saying he was going to kick their *ss for supporting prop B ... I'm sure any REASONABLE person reading this would agree with me about not revealing names here! (Especially since some of the names here I recognize from that event!)
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There are in fact GOOD BREEDERS WHO HAVE ENDORSED THE CAMPAIGN that are in the 10-50 breeding dog limit. Am I going to make it easy for the crazies here to go after them???? .... NO.... I WILL NOT.
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These breeders care more about the welfare of their animals than GREED!
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Join me Nov 2, 2010 in
VOTING YES! on Prop B!
STOP PUPPY MILL CRUELTY!
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Join me Nov 2, 2010 in
VOTING YES! on Prop B!
STOP PUPPY MILL CRUELTY!
.
Join me Nov 2, 2010 in
VOTING YES! on Prop B!
STOP PUPPY MILL CRUELTY!
.
Join me Nov 2, 2010 in
VOTING YES! on Prop B!
STOP PUPPY MILL CRUELTY!
.
Join me Nov 2, 2010 in
VOTING YES! on Prop B!
STOP PUPPY MILL CRUELTY!

(Report Comment)
Mark Foecking October 18, 2010 | 11:31 a.m.

Marina Shane wrote:

"GOOD BREEDERS WHO HAVE ENDORSED THE CAMPAIGN that are in the 10-50 breeding dog limit."

How many?

DK

(Report Comment)
Marina Shane October 18, 2010 | 12:05 p.m.

Off the top of my head I can think of at least eight in the 10-50 Breeding dog range. I know there are many, many more, but I do not have access to that info. I would think the campaign office would though I doubt they would give you the names unless those breeders gave permission to.
The eight I can think of right now, I met with personally either when I notarized petitions for them or collected signatures from them. I refuse to post their names here for fear of reprisal against them. I'm sure if threats were made against you, you would feel the same way about not revealing your name.
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Nov 2,2010
VOTE YES! PROP B!
STOP PUPPY MILL CRUELTY
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Nov 2,2010
VOTE YES! PROP B!
STOP PUPPY MILL CRUELTY
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Nov 2,2010
VOTE YES! PROP B!
STOP PUPPY MILL CRUELTY
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Nov 2,2010
VOTE YES! PROP B!
STOP PUPPY MILL CRUELTY
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Nov 2,2010
VOTE YES! PROP B!
STOP PUPPY MILL CRUELTY
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Nov 2,2010
VOTE YES! PROP B!
STOP PUPPY MILL CRUELTY

(Report Comment)
Andrew Hansen October 18, 2010 | 1:20 p.m.

Any post with the same line of text repeated over and over again should be deleted.

(Report Comment)
Ellis Smith October 18, 2010 | 1:55 p.m.

@ Andrew Hansen:
I couldn't agree more. Same for excessive use of capitalized letters (versus capital letters along with lower case letters).

(Report Comment)
Helen (not the actress) Hunt October 18, 2010 | 3:21 p.m.

U really need to watch this video http://youtu.be/yUY5vRj1Nns it exposes the COVERUP Euthanizia by ASPCA PETA HSUS &RESCUE

(ASPCA PETA HSUS) #nokill TO OBAMA, BIDEN EACH AND EVERY SENATOR, (cont) http://tl.gd/3668o7

(Report Comment)
Marina Shane October 18, 2010 | 3:42 p.m.

A couple videos to see what a Missouri puppy mill looks like:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60LiJE-Cm...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhbp7Jz0l...
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According to the Department of Agriculture, A Blue Ribbon Kennel has exceeded industry standards when it comes to the care & welfare of animals. They are held to a higher standard than any other kennel in Missouri.
See what a Blue Ribbon Kennel looks like:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdI2U6dgA...
A picture says a thousands words.
This is why Missouri needs better commercial dog breeding laws.
Our weak laws are the reason that Missouri is the puppy mill capitol of the United States.
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Please join me in voting YES on Prop B!
November 2, 2010
YOU CAN HELP STOP THE CRUELTY!
VOTE YES on PROP B!

(Report Comment)
Helen (not the actress) Hunt October 20, 2010 | 8:04 a.m.

SEE WHAT A FRAUDULENT RESCUE GROUP LOOKS LIKE

U really need to watch this video http://youtu.be/yUY5vRj1Nns it exposes the COVERUP Euthanizia by ASPCA PETA HSUS &RESCUE

FORWARD THIS GOOD READING! (ASPCA PETA HSUS) #nokill TO OBAMA, BIDEN EACH AND EVERY SENATOR, (cont) http://tl.gd/3668o7

(Report Comment)
Marina Shane October 20, 2010 | 8:34 a.m.

This bears repeating AGAIN!
See what a Missouri puppy mill looks like:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60LiJE-Cm......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhbp7Jz0l......
.
According to the Department of Agriculture, A Blue Ribbon Kennel has exceeded industry standards when it comes to the care & welfare of animals. They are held to a higher standard than any other kennel in Missouri.
See what a Blue Ribbon Kennel looks like:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdI2U6dgA......
A picture says a thousands words.
This is why Missouri needs better commercial dog breeding laws.
Our weak laws are the reason that Missouri is the puppy mill capitol of the United States.
.
Please join me in voting YES on Prop B!
November 2, 2010
YOU CAN HELP STOP THE CRUELTY!
VOTE YES on PROP B!

(Report Comment)
Hugo Cardassian October 21, 2010 | 12:04 p.m.
This comment has been removed.
Hugo Cardassian October 21, 2010 | 3:35 p.m.
This comment has been removed.
Ray Shapiro October 21, 2010 | 4:21 p.m.

Don't be a space cadet.
It's just a good idea to deep six Propostion B.
We need different plots to enforce current laws.
Vote No on Proposition B.

(Report Comment)
Marina Shane October 21, 2010 | 4:55 p.m.

Simply Put... It's a moral decision. Vote yes on Prop B.

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro October 21, 2010 | 6:02 p.m.

Marina:
Nothing's simple.
Moral decisions are difficult and part of the difficulty is that we do not live in a vacuum. Making moral decisions are complex and are connected to different contexts. After doing an ethical analysis, I conclude that moral, political, religious, and economic aspects need to ALL be considered.
I've done just that.
Vote No on Proposition B.

(Report Comment)
Marina Shane October 21, 2010 | 7:41 p.m.

Ray.... there's a difference between saying that something is "simply put" versus A "simply Decision". I stand by what I said....
.
Simply Put... It's a moral decision.
Vote yes on Prop B.

(Report Comment)
Jon White November 2, 2010 | 2:27 p.m.

In Colorado one must produce 100 pups per yr to be a commercial breeder.In Missouri it only takes the ownership of 4 intact dogs.There are over 1700 PACFA inspected facilities in Colorado,of that just over 200 are breeding facilities.(this includes occasional litters by trainers,boarding facilities and such)In Missorui,according to acfa, there are some 1400 facilities...Does anyone know the actual number of breeders in that number? ALso if as commercial breeder as defined by the HSUS is a puppy mill,how many actual animals does this even include? I mean there are surely a ton of mom and pop hobbyists out there making a little income from breeding a few dogs, who are clumped into these distorted figures. Maybe the dog auctions need to be reconsidered,maybe not allowing dogs to come from Colorado to be sold in a Missouri auction,to be bought by mill dog rescue and brought right back to colorado for resale,should not happen.This just gives the impression that there are millions of dogs all coming from Missouri.Obviously someone is using the numbers to make their point.

(Report Comment)
Mark Foecking November 2, 2010 | 3:17 p.m.

Marina Shane wrote:

"See what a Blue Ribbon Kennel looks like:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdI2U6dgA.........
A picture says a thousands words."

Actually that kennel wound up on the Dirty Dozen list a couple of years after this was filmed. I think it's irrelevant to our discussion.

Santo Hill Kennel in Millersburg is also a Blue Ribbon kennel, which one poster here referred to as a "post prop B model". Mark Santo is against prop B, and feels more enforcement of existing law, and greater pursuit of unlicensed breeders is where we should be concentrating.

"This is why Missouri needs better commercial dog breeding laws."

Except prop B isn't that law. The following are closer to what we should be voting on.

http://www.avma.org/advocacy/state/issue...

Send them back to the drawing board, and save most of Missouri's breeding industry. Vote NO.

DK

(Report Comment)
Aimie Ruth November 3, 2010 | 1:45 a.m.

Booyah... Don't all you NO people feel salty... Hahaha!!!

(Report Comment)
Mark Foecking November 3, 2010 | 2:41 a.m.

Got Pentobarb?

Terrible thing is it won't be the pro B'ers that will have to see it used...

DK

(Report Comment)

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