Fifth and Walnut garage could get 60-foot flagpole

Friday, June 3, 2011 | 5:04 p.m. CDT; updated 3:57 p.m. CDT, Tuesday, June 14, 2011

COLUMBIA — The Fifth and Walnut parking garage could be getting taller, brighter and more expensive.

Fourth Ward Councilman Daryl Dudley made a motion in April that requested staff look into installing a 60-foot flagpole with a 12-by-18 foot American flag lit by a floodlight, according to a memo from City Manager Mike Matthes and staff to the council.

"It is a high point in the city, and it's a perfect location to put a flag for everyone to see," Dudley said.

The report will be presented at Monday night's City Council meeting, said Jill Stedem, public information specialist for the Columbia Public Works Administration. She said it is currently just an informational process, but the issue will be decided Monday night.

According to the memo, the financial estimate for the design and installation of the flagpole and lighting is $13,000. The flag probably would need to be replaced each year, which would cost about $600 per replacement, according to the memo. The floodlight would also use an as yet unknown amount of electricity every year.

Dudley said he will propose on Monday that a Missouri flag also be included in the project.

City staff worked with the engineering and architectural firm that built the garage to decide where it could be located, according to the memo. Graham Construction and Walker Parking Consultants suggested six possible locations for the flag, Stedem said.

The two highest peaks at the center of the garage are the recommended locations. According to the memo, it is important the flag is placed correctly so it will be able to “properly carry the wind load.”

Workers must consider the locations of reinforcement steel and high-tension cables when drilling bolts and installing the flagpole, particularly because of the garage's design and the amount of wind load that will hit the flagpole, according to the memo.

For the floodlight to be mounted, electricity must also be wired to the same location.

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Paul Allaire June 6, 2011 | 12:13 p.m.

Oh my goodness. Do I get to be the first one to tell Dudley what he can do with his flagpole?????

(Report Comment)
Robin Nuttall June 6, 2011 | 2:07 p.m.

Oh yeah. "It's already a hideous eyesore, let's make it even MORE tacky!" Brilliant idea. Not.

(Report Comment)
Ed Ricciotti June 6, 2011 | 4:22 p.m.

Really? An American flag planted on that eyesore? Our flag deserves better respect that to put it on a parking garage. This is nothing more than pandering to the phony patriots that would get a kick out of this. Hopefully those people are few.

(Report Comment)
hank ottinger June 6, 2011 | 8:47 p.m.

According to the article, this issue will be decided tomorrow night. I would hope that saner minds would table it to allow for public comment before a decision is made.

(Report Comment)
Gregg Bush June 6, 2011 | 9:11 p.m.

Maybe Councilman Dudley could recommend something in his own ward. Doesn't Ward Four love America, too?
While I trust our expert helicopter pilots that fly life-saving public servants and patients to and from our hospitals, methinks the city doesn't need to complicate an aerial obstacle course.

(Report Comment)
John Schultz June 6, 2011 | 9:29 p.m.

Hank, I think that the article is incorrect when it states that. The council won't really do anything but accept the report and possibly vote on a motion for a possible ordinance to authorize the purchase. At least that's been my understanding of past council actions.

(Report Comment)
frank christian June 6, 2011 | 9:34 p.m.

Ed Riciotti - Could you describe "phoney patriot", please? Or, is that it, one who would enjoy seeing his/her countries emblem of its freedom, flying in a most prominent place in our town, is a phoney patriot?

How about Robin Nuttall? Is this zero the real thing, a true patriot?

I suppose a liberal, is a liberal, is a liberal, no matter which way one slices 'em.

(Report Comment)
hank ottinger June 6, 2011 | 10:43 p.m.

@Frank: a flag does not a patriot make. Has nothing to do with liberal, conservative, animal, vegetable, mineral, alien, etc.

(Report Comment)
hank ottinger June 6, 2011 | 10:46 p.m.

@John: Thanks for the clarification.

(Report Comment)
frank christian June 7, 2011 | 7:07 a.m.

Hank O. - Baloney! It is not "A" flag, it is OUR flag, no matter what you have been taught, or have been teaching.

(Report Comment)
Mark Foecking June 7, 2011 | 7:45 a.m.

I can think of several American flags flying downtown in the general area of the parking garage. One more (or not) isn't going to make a lot of difference (other than it's another expense for an already highly expensive city project).


(Report Comment)
Ed Ricciotti June 8, 2011 | 7:29 a.m.


Phony patriots care only about the symbol, not the sacrifice. Be it serving your country in any capacity or fighting for civil rights. That putting a flag on a parking garage makes you that more patriotic. It has nothing to do with liberal or conservative. However by your comment, you seemed to have attributed "phony patriotism" to conservatives by using the word liberal as a pejorative.

(Report Comment)
frank christian June 8, 2011 | 9:09 a.m.

E. Ricciotti - "Phony patriots care only about the symbol, not the sacrifice." Wrong again. This nation's birth was based on the premise that we owe no allegiance to any Government nor to any Man(Royalty was specifically omitted), only to God and our country. You must know that the "Pledge" to the "Flag" was devised to help instill a sense of belonging and sovereignty in our earliest school students, with the flag representing our country, it's sacrifices, and ideals.

Since, 1892 this worked so well, that in the ongoing effort to prepare the U.S. for control by the United Nations, David Rockefeller wrote for CFR, (paraphrase) "Sovereignty, is so instilled in the American people of today, that they can never be convinced to relinquish it. Education received by future citizens is the only answer." In my opinion, this Re - education is ongoing in all our public schools, has produced those ashamed of and/or angry at our country and it has Everything to do with liberals and conservatives.

(Report Comment)
Ed Ricciotti June 8, 2011 | 12:02 p.m.

Talk is cheap. Reciting a pledge is not patriotism, it is rote memorization. Serving your nation in a capacity that betters the lives of those in that country is the true love of country.

Frank, I am sorry you see your nation the way you do, it saddens me to read it.

(Report Comment)
John Schultz June 8, 2011 | 1:21 p.m.

Frank, you mean the pledge written by a socialist?

(Report Comment)
frank christian June 8, 2011 | 2:02 p.m.

E. R. - "Talk is cheap. Reciting a pledge is not patriotism, it is rote memorization." Pure and simple, psychobabble! Words not thought of before the necessity for removal of the basic beliefs of the citizen for their God and their Country, to be replaced with only a reliance on Gov't. became the object of those Progressive Socialists, hard at work to change our Gov't and way of life. Your narrow definition of a true patriot, or one who loves country is remarkable. One must have taken action in some "capacity" to achieve either. That certainly narrows the field, then when you, subjectively, decide that many are phoney, we are left with really few.

I see my nation as a strong, prosperous country ready to lead the rest of the world toward peaceful democratic governments and healthy economies. Sorry if this saddens you.

(Report Comment)
Jimmy Dick June 8, 2011 | 2:51 p.m.

I think Ed is making a point that a lot of people say they're patriots, but when it comes time to step into harness, pick up the weapons, and put your life on the line to serve this country in the uniform of the Armed Forces of the United States, a lot of patriots disappear. I personally don't think anyone should wrap themselves in the flag of the United States until they have done so. The flag is a symbol of our nation, the sacrifices of the men and women who served our nation, and the desire of Americans to live as free citizens in America under the government established for them and by them and their posterity.

(Report Comment)
Jimmy Bearfield June 8, 2011 | 4:48 p.m.

Veterans, thanks for your service, but get off of your high horse and realize that you're not the only ones allowed to display a flag. The flag is not a medal or a vanity license plate.

(Report Comment)
frank christian June 8, 2011 | 7:06 p.m.

The elitist, at it again. It is well known that far more conversation is required to make a lie believable than is needed to tell a truth. Now, in this case, we have two who need to try to relate a terrible problem in this country, some who profess to be patriotic may, indeed, not be so.

Both have finitely defined "patriotism", to the needs of their ideology. Much different than "the love of ones country, simply because of citizenship in that country". It would be interesting to read when Ed learned that "phoney patriots" in our country were noteworthy and if "Hopefully those people are few.", how can he be sure that there are, in fact, any? Mr. Dick could advise when he discovered this trend of folks proclaiming patriotism, when they have not met the requirements. The year would suffice.

Or, both could truthfully admit that their comments were only to promote, their progressive ideology, which requires allegiance to Government, not religion, or country.

(Report Comment)
Ed Ricciotti June 9, 2011 | 5:46 p.m.

Jimmy, you can add in Americorp, volunteering, or any other activity that puts the betterment of their fellow citizens above themselves. Frank, I don't know what you are trying to say. I never mentioned socialism, progressive ideology, etc. Why do you keep bringing it up? You state that progressives require a allegiance to government, but you support by ordinance (government force) council meetings being required to take a pledge of allegiance to the flag. (a flag representing our Republic, our form of government.)

(Report Comment)
Jimmy Dick June 9, 2011 | 6:21 p.m.

1982 and every year thereafter, but looking back I can see 2002 is definitely a year where I really started encountering it on a much more blatant level.

(Report Comment)
frank christian June 9, 2011 | 7:44 p.m.

Ed & Jim - "patriotism is a devotion to one's country. In a generalized sense applicable to all countries and peoples, patriotism is a devotion to one's country for no other reason than being a citizen of that country." Wikipedia. Then, there is my old Merriam Webster's, "love for, or devotion to ones country". Neither mentions, "volunteering, or any other activity that puts the betterment of their fellow citizens above themselves." Or,"wrap themselves in the flag of the United States". I guess Ed missed it, so will do it again,"progressive ideology, which requires allegiance to Government, not religion, or country." The pledge and the Flag represent "Country". It's clear, Jim developed his opinion of those "patriotic", after R. Reagan brought the country back to life and then again when W. Bush reacted to the attack on our people on 9/11.

You both refer to "patriotism" in language alien to our known sources of definition. If not ideology, could you advise, how you came by your opinion of how this word should be defined?

(Report Comment)
Jimmy Dick June 9, 2011 | 8:00 p.m.

Sorry Frankie boy. I got my first taste of it as I stepped into combat boots as a 17 year old and then was reminded of it by seeing how Glenn Beck launched his national radio program by using the terrorist attacks and the Iraq War to peddle his show. The problem with you Frank is that you live in what I call Frankworld. It's a place that has few inhabitants because you dislike anyone with an opinion that is not in perfect alignment with your's. Patriotism is really what the American people want it to be whether you like their brand of it or not. Attacking them for defining it in a way inconsistent with your version of it is just pointless.

(Report Comment)
Mark Foecking June 10, 2011 | 6:15 a.m.

Jeez, aren't there enough flags downtown for everyone?

It's just a symbol. I don't pledge allegiance to a piece of cloth. I pledge allegiance to the US of A, and that includes the right to criticize it every now and then. A lot of good has come from people that criticized their countries (or their governments, which are part of said countries whether anyone likes it or not).


(Report Comment)
frank christian June 10, 2011 | 8:19 a.m.

J. Dick - Couldn't you once, put your astute thinking in line with what you write? You first noticed "phoney patriotism" in 1982. Is that when you put on your combat boots? Noticed "it" again listening to Glenn Beck? He used Iraq to "peddle" his show? You sound like the don Quixote of the 80's. Did you get many windmills? Isn't it apparent that "anyone with an opinion that is not in perfect alignment with your's." must be negated and criticized eternally?

The most accurate, sensible, statement you have written, in my memory, is "Patriotism is really what the American people want it to be whether you like their brand of it or not." I asked how you arrived at your version of the word. Got the usual dance, no answer.

(Report Comment)
Jimmy Dick June 10, 2011 | 9:07 a.m.

What's the matter Frank(Glenn Beck Clone)? Having difficulty this early in the morning accepting the fact that your diatribes on patriotism don't mesh with the non-Frankworld views of other people?

(Report Comment)
hank ottinger June 10, 2011 | 9:38 a.m.

Frank opines, "Isn't it apparent that "anyone with an opinion that is not in perfect alignment with your's." must be negated and criticized eternally?"

Pot calling the kettle here.

(Report Comment)
frank christian June 10, 2011 | 4:14 p.m.

JDick - "your diatribes on patriotism don't mesh with the non-Frankworld views of other people?

What we have here is what we may call a group of "neo-pats". New patriots, who are trying to revise the meaning of patriotism to fit their agenda. They must separate themselves from, and criticize those who willingly pledge allegiance to their country and the "piece of cloth" that represents it. Separation and criticism because those old patriots are in the majority here and will not accept the "shared poverty" the progressives are foisting upon us.

(Report Comment)
Jimmy Dick June 10, 2011 | 4:24 p.m.

Look in the mirror Frank(Glenn Beck Clone). You're attempting to make patriotism fit your definition to serve your agenda which is definitely not shared by the majority of Americans. Patiotism is what each individual makes of it. You cannot narrowly define it because it is something the is based upon the individual experiences of each person. That's why I say you live in Frankworld because you cannot comprehend that your narrow view of America is not shared by everyone.

(Report Comment)
frank christian June 10, 2011 | 6:08 p.m.

"You're attempting to make patriotism fit your definition to serve your agenda which is definitely not shared by the majority of Americans." My agenda is well known and does not change with the tone of discussion, as yours always does.

As stated above, "I see my nation as a strong, prosperous country ready to lead the rest of the world toward peaceful democratic governments and healthy economies." This, however you try to spin it, this time, is not your agenda. You, will continue, however, "barking at the moon" in the defense of the failed Keynesian economics constantly promoted by your mentor, Dr. P. Krugman (just because we have never been 14T$ in debt doesn't mean that is a bad thing). I'd rather be Glenn Beck, any time.

You are in the minority and some are able to recall, that only 1/3, in the USSR, were communists. I have looked in the mirror and like it. So does my wife, who just returned from Wyoming, visiting sister for 2 wks. That's my diatribe for today.

(Report Comment)
Jimmy Dick June 10, 2011 | 6:52 p.m.

Frank(Glenn Beck Clone), just keep on with the attempts to label people. Try to recall that during the American Revolution only about one third supported the cause of liberty. I live in the country of my choice where we have a choice as to how we live. I see my country as a strong, prosperous country with a peaceful democratic government and a health economy just like you do. I don't see it being done in a manner espoused by you and the John Birch Society. We will always be in a continual state of governmental evolvement which you don't seem to understand because government in the US is based upon the interests of the people as they decide.

(Report Comment)
frank christian June 11, 2011 | 10:55 a.m.

JD - Might concede a point for the revolutionaries in this country, except for the difference that you must ignore. Minority supported our revolution until after it's success, when they were allowed to devise their own form of gov't. and live more freely. Minority overthrew the Tzar, formed the USSR and took control of the people and everything else in Russia and surrounding States, until it's demise.

The J. Bircher's have done nothing in this country except oppose the control of Communism in our gov't. Only liberals and you oppose them.

You claim to want a strong USA, yet, vehemently, support the very people who clearly, will, if allowed, reduce us to level of the 2nd tier membership of UN. Only liberals do this.

Everything you have espoused around here, smells of liberalism, yet you don't want the label. Why not?

Didn't Ben Franklin tell the crowd, when asked "what did you give us?" "A Republic, if you can keep it!" "We will always be in a continual state of governmental evolvement". Do you suppose this was what Ben was talking about?

(Report Comment)
Jimmy Dick June 11, 2011 | 11:41 a.m.

Frank(Glenn Beck Clone), you just repeat allegations that sound like they come from the conspiracy theories of Glenn Beck and Ron Paul. Go crawl back in your chair and read the fiction that those two nutjobs put out.

(Report Comment)
John Schultz June 11, 2011 | 12:02 p.m.

Jimmy, you obviously know jack squat about Ron Paul.

(Report Comment)
frank christian June 11, 2011 | 1:45 p.m.

Jimmy D. doesn't know jack squat about anything. He derives a measure of self importance from his meaningless proclamations, spewed profusely, when confronted with the reality of the failure of and damage done by those he chooses to defend.

Conspiracies are "plans" to be acted upon in some future time. Most everything I have ever alluded to is something done or in process of being done. Mr. Dick has no other tangible response so he must simplistically accuse Beck and Paul, thus me, of being "conspiracy theorists". The writing of a loser? Aw, man, yeah!

(Report Comment)
Jimmy Dick June 11, 2011 | 1:58 p.m.

Just like you accuse me of being a liberal and a socialist. You think your definition of how America should be is the one that everyone follows. It isn't. We follow our own definition of what we believe America is as we see fit. You on the other hand are a simple Fascist because you only want people to believe in the America that fits your narrow minded view. It's called Freedom of Choice. The far right doesn't believe in Freedom of Choice because they think they know everything and what's best for everyone. That's why we see the polls showing people dropping support for the Tea Party because they get tired of the endless rhetoric which doesn't match reality. Ron Paul, Glenn Beck, Sarah Palin, and Michele Bachmann are all examples of morons on the right who can't even explain American history correctly because it doesn't fit into their revisionist theories of how America works. So if you want those types of people to lead this country when they botch simple history you're an idiot.

(Report Comment)
John Schultz June 11, 2011 | 3:18 p.m.

Jimmy, please give us an example of Ron Paul not explaining history correctly? I still don't think you know what you're talking about when it comes to him (the rest of the people in your list I agree on).

(Report Comment)

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