advertisement

DAVID ROSMAN: The people are now speaking, and it's about time

Wednesday, October 12, 2011 | 1:37 p.m. CDT; updated 2:08 p.m. CDT, Wednesday, October 12, 2011

This has been a most interesting week for Columbia politics.

A few days ago, I wrote a column for my InkandVoice blog asking, "Where have all the liberal voices gone?"

MoreStory


Related Media

Related Articles

Some of the respondents suggested they went the way of the Internet. Some said that the protesters of the '60s and '70s, the baby boomers, are the ones sitting in the ivory towers of Wall Street.

My young friend Neil said, "They're getting old and most have sold out."

My contemporary, Howard, suggested that "perhaps we are very busy with work, kids, grandkids and older family members who need our help."

But here in Columbia, the voices are starting to roar. Columbia has OccupyCoMo, complete with its Facebook page and a presence on the corner of Broadway and Seventh Street, across the street from Landmark and Boone County National banks.

I sat down with de facto representatives Ariel Seara, Willy Maxwell, Bill Dessenberger and a young woman who refused to give her name, so I called her "Jef," to learn more. To best describe the organizational premise, one must return to OccupyWallSt.org.

"Occupy Wall Street is a horizontally organized resistance movement employing the revolutionary Arab Spring tactic to restore democracy in America. We use a tool known as a people's assembly to facilitate open, participatory and horizontal organizing between members of the public."

To call the occupy groups unpatriotic or un-American is simply wrong. The route Occupy Wall Street, OccupyCoMo and others are taking is no different than the Tea Party movement in Columbia or anywhere else.

The local core group of about 20, along with the national movement, has one commonality: They are tired of being ignored.

They are tired of the undue influence of multi-national corporations over Congress, what one Occupy supporting site calls "corporatocracy."

Yes, their complaints extend to the ever grouping social-economic abyss, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the lack of jobs and the financial institutions that control the American people. Ariel assured me, however, that this did not include Landmark or Boone County National banks.

Yet these seem to be symptoms of the bigger issue — the current state of the American people and the lack of elected officials who do anything positive.

As a national "organization," this movement is still young and has not found its voice or that natural spokesman or spokeswoman to represent the collective interests of the people. It took a while for the Civil Rights Movement to find the Rev. Martin Luther King and Stokely Carmichael.

Then there are those in Columbia who are massing for a recall of conservative Fourth Ward Councilman Daryl Dudley and a boycott of Atkins Corp., of which Dudley is part owner.

These homeowners, businessmen and businesswomen believe that Mr. Dudley is supporting a redistricting plan that takes his opposition out of the ward by means of gerrymandering the new district.

Our friend Mike Martin is distributing the group's position through his blog, The Columbia Heart Beat, and emails.

Those calling for Dudley's ouster are also upset that their elected city representative is not listening to them.

There are two (three if you include the modification of Trial D) reapportionment plans being considered. Martin said Trial D appears to "cost central city neighborhoods in the Third and Fourth wards their representation on the Columbia City Council and dilute votes from African-Americans in the First Ward." Of course Dudley reportedly believes this is nonsense.

The majority of the complainants believe that Trial E, which keeps the Fourth Ward basically intact and extends the First Ward westward, is the better selection.

The Ward Reapportionment Committee supports Trial E.  Terry Smith, a member of the committee, told ABC17 News that Trial E is the most logical of the plans put forth.

Why are these two groups so similar? Because each has learned how to roar, to make noise and bring problems concerning the people to light.

Both are receiving their fair share of news coverage, and both are receiving support from a larger base of frustrated citizens and small business owners who are tired of not being heard and having their voices drowned out by multi-national corporations.

Are these the voices I thought were lost? Most likely.

This is the way political movements start — from a few squeaking wheels to disorganized rallies to a sustained roar.

David Rosman is an editor, writer, professional speaker and college instructor in communications, ethics, business and politics. You can read more of his commentaries at ColumbiaMissourian.com and InkandVoice.com and New York Journal of Books.com.


Like what you see here? Become a member.


Show Me the Errors (What's this?)

Report corrections or additions here. Leave comments below here.

You must be logged in to participate in the Show Me the Errors contest.


Comments

Ray Shapiro October 12, 2011 | 2:32 p.m.

Yes. Government influences for Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, thanks to the likes of Barney Frank and his ilk, to "buy" votes by selling home ownership to people who in the long run never had "proper" credit, and government bailouts of union shops and corporations which should have gone their way to bankruptcy, downsizing, reorganizing or merging, to ensure free market dynamics and we get the new SDS and anti-capitalists marching everywhere except on the Obama administration.
Distractions off the White House campus to find scapegoats while Obama fiddles.
Amazing.

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro October 12, 2011 | 2:42 p.m.

("...and dilute votes from African-Americans in the First Ward." Of course Dudley reportedly believes this is nonsense.")
Of course it's nonsense.
You need to first get blacks to participate in local politics, in the first ward and throughout Columbia, before you can address dilution of something that doesn't exist.
Or are you referring to White's who speak for Columbia's African-Americans?

(Report Comment)
matt arnall October 12, 2011 | 3:12 p.m.

"government bailouts of union shops and corporations"
Are you talking about auto industry and banks? It made sense to bail them out as to stabilize our currency and avoid even further loss of jobs. Problem is that after our tax dollars saved these banks, they are sticking it to the public more than ever and that is just wrong. The auto bail out worked out great. Saved some American companys, alot of jobs, money has been paid back and these companys are earning money again. Isn't that good?

"You need to first get blacks to participate in local politics, in the first ward and throughout Columbia, before you can address dilution of something that doesn't exist"
Are you claiming that no African Americans participate in government here in Columbia? How many African Americans do you regularly talk to, Ray? My guess is 0, and if it is not, they won't want to talk to you after such an ignorant blanket statement.

(Report Comment)
Gary Straub October 12, 2011 | 3:20 p.m.

Fannie and Freddy do not make home loans. They buy/bought packages of loans put together by the "too big to fail" banks and certified by them to be good loans and our government guarantees them. So of course the really patriotic banks seeing easy money, packaged up a bunch of terrible loans rubber stamped them and hoped they would fail so they would be paid by the 99%. Blaming them for the crisis is misinformation propagated by those who have been robbing us blind, and believed by the right wing ditto heads who many actually believe our government is evil and if only left to their own self regulation, the huge mega corporations will make this society run as smooth as a Rolex. Which is probably true if a two class system is what you desire. F&F are in the process of suing many of the perpetrators, however our great corporate congress is trying to pass legislation to limit the liability that they deserve. Meaning they got caught with their hand in the cookie jar taking a dozen cookies but as punishment they have to put one cookie back in.

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro October 12, 2011 | 3:27 p.m.

("How many African Americans do you regularly talk to, Ray? My guess is 0, and if it is not, they won't want to talk to you after such an ignorant blanket statement")

African-Americans in Columbia need to speak to their city council representatives, not to me.
African-Americans in Columbia need to volunteer to participate on city commissions and boards, not join me for dinner.
African-Americans in Columbia need to show up at local neighborhood meetings concerning this town as a whole and not just at Black events.
Thanks for putting me in a position to speak for African-Americans.
I'm now as bad as the progressives who seek to use race as a component in redistricting.

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro October 12, 2011 | 3:36 p.m.

@Gary Straub:
Then what's your take on this article?
("The Government-Created Subprime Mortgage Meltdown

by Thomas J. DiLorenzo

The thousands of mortgage defaults and foreclosures in the "subprime" housing market (i.e., mortgage holders with poor credit ratings) is the direct result of thirty years of government policy that has forced banks to make bad loans to un-creditworthy borrowers. The policy in question is the 1977 Community Reinvestment Act (CRA), which compels banks to make loans to low-income borrowers and in what the supporters of the Act call "communities of color" that they might not otherwise make based on purely economic criteria.

The original lobbyists for the CRA were the hardcore leftists who supported the Carter administration and were often rewarded for their support with government grants and programs like the CRA that they benefited from. These included various "neighborhood organizations," as they like to call themselves, such as "ACORN")
http://www.lewrockwell.com/dilorenzo/dil...

(Report Comment)
matt arnall October 12, 2011 | 3:44 p.m.

"African-Americans in Columbia need to speak to their city council representatives, not to me."
Well Ray, aren't they. Isn't that why the fuss is being raised about the 4th Ward?

"African-Americans in Columbia need to volunteer to participate on city commissions and boards, not join me for dinner."
So none of them do, Ray?

"African-Americans in Columbia need to show up at local neighborhood meetings concerning this town as a whole and not just at Black events."
So none of them do Ray?

"Thanks for putting me in a position to speak for African-Americans."
I am sure that they don't want you speaking for them, talking to them or having anything at all to do with them. You obviously have a negative opinion of all the African Americans in this community, and that in my book is racist.

You and the people of your "ilk" are doing more damage to this country than any progressive. You support big business, big banks and not the rights of individuals. You beleive that coorporations are people, right? That is the biggest line of garbage in America today. Elections bought and paid for by big business, and that's what you argue in favor of. Backwards.

(Report Comment)
Mark Flakne October 12, 2011 | 3:53 p.m.

Dudley is part-owner of Atkins Chemical? Really? Why does he work at a gas station?

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro October 12, 2011 | 3:54 p.m.

("You and the people of your "ilk" are doing more damage to this country than any progressive. You support big business, big banks and not the rights of individuals. You beleive that coorporations are people, right? That is the biggest line of garbage in America today. Elections bought and paid for by big business, and that's what you argue in favor of.")
How do you know what I support?

(Report Comment)
Mike Martin October 12, 2011 | 4:06 p.m.

I don't think Mr. Dudley owns part of Atkins.

Mr. Dudley told an audience at Friday's library meeting that Atkins Corp. co-owner Scott Atkins and former Add Sheet owner Larry Grossman told him to appoint Rob Monsees -- a well-known partisan political operative -- to the city's Ward Reapportionment Committee (WRC).

Monsees immediately devised the unpopular Trial D.

"Of all the people you could have appointed who live in the 4th Ward, why did you choose Rob Monsees?" attorney Jeremy Root asked Dudley. "Of all the people who have experience in city government, why did you pick Monsees?"

Dudley sheepishly gave up both Atkins -- a WRC member himself -- and Grossman, vocal representatives of the development lobby.

Atkins -- who voted to support Trial D -- is also a principal in several development firms, including St. Charles Road Development, which recently sold large parcels to the school district on condition the district would spend millions on development-ready infrastructure.

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro October 12, 2011 | 4:35 p.m.

("I don't think Mr. Dudley owns part of Atkins.")
Atkins obviously "owns" part of Dudley as Atkins was on the chamber committee which picked the candidates during the mayoral election year.
But political promises, givebacks and concessions are the norm for almost every elected official.
The best example of character contrary to that rule was Sid Sullivan, IMO.
But the masses of Columbia never got the chance to benefit from his integrity as mayor.
Their loss.
http://www.columbiatribune.com/news/2010...

(Report Comment)
Ray Shapiro October 12, 2011 | 4:48 p.m.
(Report Comment)
Mike Martin October 12, 2011 | 5:17 p.m.

I agree, Ray. Sid's loss was the people's loss, but try explaining that to them at the time. No one wanted to listen.

(Report Comment)
matt arnall October 12, 2011 | 7:10 p.m.

All apologies, Missourian. Let me reword......

Ray, I base my knowledge of you on the comments that you post here. It is not my intention to get into arguments whenever I make a comment on this site. I am a person that bases my beliefs on issues by learning about those issues. I am a person that leans more to the liberal side of the isle, but it would be unfair to say that I am a liberal. I read these comments because I am looking for an argument from the conservative side that would allow me to understand why they believe in the things that they do. It appears to me that the GOP is basically a voice for big business and banks. I cannot understand why a corporation is a person. Does that mean they can get married, be incarcerated, run for office? Does a business have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? My opinion is government is there to represent its people, not its businesses. I have read quotes that say the exact opposite of that from GOP politicians. My opinion is that business exists because of people. The right seems to think that people exist because of business? I don’t know you Ray. I only have an opinion of you, and I am interested in better understanding your thought process on these issues.

(Report Comment)
matt arnall October 12, 2011 | 7:30 p.m.

So you understand my beliefs. I believe that financially, things have been biased toward big business and big banks for years. I hear many GOPs say that the government needs to get out of the way for businesses to succeed. Businesses are created to make profits, and many businesses make that their soul focus. I think everyone can agree that monopolies are a bad thing, but with this age of never ending mergers, there are many areas where they basically already exist. I think it is ridiculous to think that these companies will monitor themselves to do the right thing for society. I believe the many scientists that say we need to make changes or our planet is going to suffer drastic effects. I think the actions of the financial industry has already proven that they are not to be trusted. We literally just saved several big banks that continue to practice business the same way they were before, just with a bit more scorn for the public that bailed them out. They aren’t lending, they are stock piling cash, just like big business isn’t hiring, they are stock piling cash. The decisions in congress aren’t made for the best interest of the public, but for the best interest of big business. I believe that things need to be discussed and everyone should work on compromises, because I understand that for everyone that associates with the left, there are just as many that associate with the right. With no compromise, none of us are going to get anywhere UNLESS one side goes so completely all out as to say “If I don’t get my way, then everyone will suffer” (the tea party with the debt limit debate). They were willing to truly risk the financial well being of every American unless they got their way, and the did. They won that battle, but it lit a fire under the left side and so today we are seeing Occupy “Everywhere”. It is the lefts answer to ensuring that they continue to have a voice. That makes sense to me. I really want to understand the conservative side better, cause right now I don’t.

(Report Comment)
Gregg Bush October 12, 2011 | 8:51 p.m.

If government could
Force banks to make loans, can we
Get the bailout back?

(Report Comment)
Gregg Bush October 12, 2011 | 8:52 p.m.

Of course it's banks that
Force government make laws,
Not the other way round.

(Report Comment)
Gregg Bush October 12, 2011 | 8:53 p.m.

Dang!

Of course it's banks that
Force government to make laws,
Not the other way round.

(Report Comment)
Gregg Bush October 12, 2011 | 8:56 p.m.

Consumer lending
Did not create a crisis.
Derivatives did.

(Report Comment)
Tony Robertson October 12, 2011 | 8:59 p.m.

David Rosman says "A few days ago, I wrote a column for my InkandVoice blog asking, "Where have all the liberal voices gone?"

Apparently, this one talks out his "arse", as they say in Ye Olde Albion:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...

If this cat's part of the 99%...we are gonna need more car washes.

(Report Comment)
Gregg Bush October 12, 2011 | 9:00 p.m.

Quote from Occupy DC, that I've rewritten into haiku form-

We've been asked to leave.
We have a new permit. It's
Called: First Amendment.

(Report Comment)
Gregg Bush October 12, 2011 | 9:09 p.m.

Daily mail is not
A newspaper. It's more a
Libel factory.

Check your sources. Or
Perhaps you think James O'Keefe
Is a journalist?

(Report Comment)
Tony Robertson October 12, 2011 | 9:14 p.m.

I am sure it was photo-shopped. Along with the piles of trash, rubbish, etc. (And no, I don't mean the Keith Olbermann photo.) And the World Workers Party signs, with Che Guevara, in other media outlets. I am sure Andrew Breitbart paid those folks to look that ignorant, as plants, to taint the public's perception.

(Report Comment)
Mark Foecking October 13, 2011 | 4:34 a.m.

matt arnall wrote:

"I think the actions of the financial industry has already proven that they are not to be trusted."

While everything was hunky-dory, we thought it was the greatest thing in the world. Gov't revenues were way up, consumer confidence was high, amployment was up, and people were getting loans for monster houses that were too good to be true. It's a lot easier in hindsight to look back and see that all of it was built on sand.

"They aren’t lending, they are stock piling cash, just like big business isn’t hiring, they are stock piling cash."

Hm. I'm stockpiling cash, aren't you? If not, you should.

There was an article recently about Landmark Bank getting a federal loan to make small business loans, and a bank official was saying that not many of them needed loans at this time. That's because, without consumer confidence, there's no reason for them to spend, and no reason to expand a business. With unemployment high, consumer confidence reamins low. No one has come forth with a reasonable idea to break that cycle, and it may be something we just have to live with.

Similarly, consumer lending is slow and difficult because banks (especially conservative ones like our locals) don't want to get stuck with a bunch of bad loans again. Unemployment and slow economic activity makes granting a home loan riskier, and this again is a cycle that I'm not sure can be reasonably broken.

If we had responded to the lending boom with common-sense regulation, we might have averted a lot of foreclosures today. But everybody (yes, everybody - government, banks, and consumers) wanted it to continue, cause things were just great there for a time.

Parties are fun, but sometimes aren't worth the hangovers.

DK

(Report Comment)
Jimmy Bearfield October 13, 2011 | 7:01 a.m.

Boone County National Bank has a 35.77% share of the local market, based on deposits. That's more than their next three largest competitors combined. Is Boone too big to be allowed to fail?

(Report Comment)
Jack Hamm October 13, 2011 | 7:25 a.m.

Tony:

You remind me of Rush and the other right wingers; You see what you want to see or what people tell you to see instead of what is really going on. There are thousands of people at these protests. They range from hippies to WWII vets. Before you go demonizing them you should be careful; you may find that some of them are far greater men and patriots then you could ever dream of being...

http://i.imgur.com/G0SIF.jpg

(Report Comment)
Mark Foecking October 13, 2011 | 7:36 a.m.

Jimmy Bearfield wrote:

"Is Boone too big to be allowed to fail?"

I'd say that given where they are, where they have their assets, and how they run their bank, they're quite unlikely to fail, so the question becomes moot.

DK

(Report Comment)
Tony Robertson October 13, 2011 | 8:18 a.m.

Jack: Rush who? I like the band, Rush. I do listen to them quite often. Had no idea Geddy, Neil and the boys were right-wingers, though.

I am sure there are fine, upstanding Americans among the protest crowds. Maybe they can straighten out the less responsible ones, like the fine chap doing number two on the five-o, the ones who leave their trash lying around, the ones who revere a cool t-shirt silhouette of a thug and a butcher, the ones who actually take Keith Olbermann seriously.

(Report Comment)
Jimmy Bearfield October 13, 2011 | 8:20 a.m.

I've been a Boone customer for several years, and I have no complaints. But I don't think it's a moot question because even a well-run bank's fate can turn quickly if a significant number of their customers run into trouble.

(Report Comment)
Jack Hamm October 13, 2011 | 9:23 a.m.

Tony:

Why did you not voice the same concerns over the Tea Party rallies...

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_VLoMSVL0ylA/Sq...

If you take any group of people that measures in the tens of thousands there will be problems and bad behavior. Focusing on a few bad apples or commenting on people's t-shirts is exactly what the media tycoons filling your head want you to do. Instead of thinking about their message and discussing this country's problems they have people like you complaining about t-shirts and random hippies.

(Report Comment)
Daniel Jordan Jordan October 13, 2011 | 9:29 a.m.

Tony, "right wing" is probably not the accurate term for my favorite Canadian rock band, since Neil Peart is so definitely at the libertarian end of the spectrum.

(Report Comment)
Michael Williams October 13, 2011 | 9:36 a.m.

MarkF: Your 4:34 am post is spot-on.

It's all about sentiment. Always has been, always will be.

As for corporations accumulating cash, we've seen this many times before. In a recession, corporations pull in their horns, reduce expenses (mainly via reduced labor costs, their largest expense), lay low for a while, and accumulate cash waiting for confidence to return. We are in the "accumulate cash" phase right now (and like you, I am, too), waiting for consumer confidence to return.

It will be late 2013/early 2014 before we start to see a strong recovery. At the earliest.
_________________

PS: These protests are really helping with the "sentiment" issue, dontcha think? As if the government can do anything about it.

PS: Here's hopin' those protestors take a page from the tea-party book and clean up after themselves. Is that a futile hope for change....on my part?

(Report Comment)
Jim Michaelson October 13, 2011 | 10:16 a.m.

@Jack Hamm - that picture you linked to - the one that showed the aftermath of the tea party rally. Man - that was awesome. but next time, you may want to choose a picture other than "trash-and-other-debris-scattered-across-the-national-mall-after-obama-inauguration-ceremony"

Priceless...

(Report Comment)
Michael Williams October 13, 2011 | 10:16 a.m.

Jack: In your 9:23 am post, you linked to a picture that you infer was trash left over from a tea party rally.

But, the link address says, "....trash-and-other-debris-scattered-across-the-national-mall-after-obama-inauguration-ceremony.jpg".

Can you tell us which it really is?

(Report Comment)
Michael Williams October 13, 2011 | 10:17 a.m.

Dang, Jim: You beat me by only a couple of seconds!

Maybe Jack can clarify this..........

(Report Comment)
Michael Williams October 13, 2011 | 10:22 a.m.

Jim: PS: When I clicked that link, I just KNEW I'd seen that pic before. It was only when I read the link tagline that I remembered.

But, perhaps I'm wrong and Jack will clarify things for the both of us..........

(Report Comment)
Jack Hamm October 13, 2011 | 11:47 a.m.

Mike,

I pulled a picture from a Newsweek article about a Tea Party protest. Bad journalism on their part I would say.

The point is that any large group of people will do this; tea part or OWS, Right wing or left. Pointing to the inevitable and meaningless in an attempt to avoid the actual debate is unproductive.

(Report Comment)
Tony Robertson October 13, 2011 | 12:18 p.m.

Jack: I don't listen to Rush Limbaugh. I don't watch Fox News. I regularly listen to both Morning Edition and All Things Considered, and check out NPR's website for more info on stories that interest me. Most of my news & info, I get online, because I like the variety and diversity available, and it suits my time. I disdain both the Tea Party and OWS protestors. The last mob-like crowd I was part of was outside Harpos, the last Homecoming before the open container ordinance.

So, with that, and with the photo of detritus from The One's big bash, is there anything else you think you have all figured out?

I do enjoy the Occupy Herbstreit movement, though:
http://occupyherbstreit.tumblr.com/

(Report Comment)
Jack Hamm October 13, 2011 | 12:21 p.m.

Let us also not forget that the real Tea Party was a group of men who committed multiple offenses that would be considered felonies today. They did more than leave some trash behind; they stole millions of dollars of product from a private corporation and trashed Boston Harbor with it. The scale of destruction of the actual Tea Party was monumental compared to anything we have seen from any group in contemporary American politics. There were people then who threw stones and harsh words at the Tea Party and called them trash and backed the crown (state) no matter what just like there are today.

The original Tea Party was also fighting against unfair taxation and a government that favored corporations (The east India Tea Company) over the people. They were fighting against a government and system that served corporate interest and the interest of the bourgeoisie over that of the people.

Ask yourself if 250 years ago you would have been with the Tea Party or the Whigs. Then ask yourself why you would not be with them today. Even the right wing tea party of today fought for the same things as the OWS protestors are until it was deemed unacceptable by their corporate overloads. I remember the Tea Party rallying against bailouts and Wall Street running our government. How many of you "republicans" have complained about Goldman Sachs, Geitner, Summers, Paulson etc? Now just because some left wing people and some libertarians are agreeing with you, you go in the opposite direction? What changed? Fox News and the other crap you fill your heads with changed. They have trained you to think of politics as a football game; fighting us vs. them instead of working together. Remember, Obama=Bush=Reagan=Clinton=any other candidate. They are all neocons and not one of them is playing on your team.

(Report Comment)
Andrew Sommer October 13, 2011 | 12:51 p.m.

This is what a real Tea Party patriot looks like...

http://i.imgur.com/exNPG.jpg

(Report Comment)
Michael Williams October 13, 2011 | 12:52 p.m.

Jack says, "The scale of destruction of the actual Tea Party was monumental compared to anything we have seen from any group in contemporary American politics.

Me: Really? You musta been born after 1970. For me, I was around in the late '60s with the Dem national convention riots, the days of SDS, the Watts riots, plus racial riots in many US cities. I think your perception of the "scale of destruction" is a mite skewed.

Jack: Ask yourself if 250 years ago you would have been with the Tea Party or the Whigs. Then ask yourself why you would not be with them today.

Me: Actually, I've given this much thought for many years. You've asked an important question that has probably crossed many minds. Another question I've asked myself: Would I have packed up my family and gone west from the land-poor eastern seaboard?

No way for me to know. I can only guess based upon my actions in the past and who I think I am right now. I "think" I would have been with the Revolution. I "think" I would have moved west.

But, who truly knows?

The only way I will truly know is if I have to make such a decision in the future against my fellow citizens. I sure hope not.

(Report Comment)
Jack Hamm October 13, 2011 | 1:00 p.m.

Mike,

I don't mean to make you feel old but the 1960s no longer counts as contemporary. You are talking about something that happened over 40 years ago. Over half of the US population was not alive then (US median age is 35.5 years).

(Report Comment)
Tony Robertson October 13, 2011 | 10:32 p.m.

Jack Hamm says: "Ask yourself if 250 years ago you would have been with the Tea Party or the Whigs. Then ask yourself why you would not be with them today."

I'm admittedly an avid history nerd. These are always interesting to contemplate. And nigh impossible to be of much utility to the contemporary discussion.

It is beyond ridiculous to infer that, if one is disdainful of the contemporary Tea Party, or Occupy Wall Street movement, that one would have been a Friend of the King in the 1770-80s. As Michael Williams points out, who knows how you would react in a different historical period, under very different circumstances than today?

And the circumstances are very, very different. My ancestors were mostly, at the time, in the southern Appalachian backcountry. Talk about the fringe of the British Empire. Some rebelled, as at Kings Mountain and the Cowpens. Others remained loyal to the Crown, and even crossed into the Cherokee Nation to remain so.

I think Jack Hamm's analogy is a bit ignorant. There were Patriots who were uber-wealthy. There were Loyalists who were poor as dirt. It is not nearly as simple as you may think.

(Report Comment)
Michael Williams October 13, 2011 | 10:45 p.m.

Jack:

Yeah, I know...history started yesterday or maybe last week.

I might remind you that liberal baby boomers of today WERE present in the late '60s.

(Report Comment)
frank christian October 14, 2011 | 9:01 a.m.

In my opinion,all or most of those taking Hamms political stance think that the world began the day they were born and see themselves as the center of this universe. "You are talking about something that happened over 40 years ago." Wow!

When confronted with history not matching their newly gained progressive information, they proceed to change it. ". How many of you "republicans" have complained about Goldman Sachs, Geitner, Summers, Paulson etc? Now just because some left wing people and some libertarians are agreeing with you, you go in the opposite direction what changed? Fox News and the other crap you fill your heads with changed." I personally have posted more criticizing Geithner, Summers, Paulson than I can remember along with everyone and every news source I am familiar with since Geithner was chosen Treasurer because He was only one who knew how to manage TARP. The routine bashing of Fox News is the only way Mr. Hamm can make himself feel somehow more informed than we others.

He doesn't know what a "neocon" is, but proudly portrays "Obama=Bush=Reagan=Clinton= as being in that basket together. Most know that the destruction of our economy is imminent, if we continue on the spending, regulation, course foisted on us by Obama (not Bush, Reagan,or Clinton). Not a political statement, just an economic fact,yet Hamm broadcasts his ideology day after day, as though the opposite is true. Too bad.

(Report Comment)

Leave a comment

Speak up and join the conversation! Make sure to follow the guidelines outlined below and register with our site. You must be logged in to comment. (Our full comment policy is here.)

  • Don't use obscene, profane or vulgar language.
  • Don't use language that makes personal attacks on fellow commenters or discriminates based on race, religion, gender or ethnicity.
  • Use your real first and last name when registering on the website. It will be published with every comment. (Read why we ask for that here.)
  • Don’t solicit or promote businesses.

We are not able to monitor every comment that comes through. If you see something objectionable, please click the "Report comment" link.

You must be logged in to comment.

Forget your password?

Don't have an account? Register here.

advertisements