Transcript of interview with Superintendent of Schools Phyllis Chase

Taped interview with Phyllis Chase:

C: There were some questions about hiring staff members and the institutional history of that.

You initially had some questions in terms of timeline and because I wanted to answer that and certainly I am as an organization have struggled in terms of being perceived perhaps as not being as forthright perhaps as possible and yet on the other hand wanting to be as fair and legally prudent with our staff, students and faculty members as we possibly could be. We tried to err on the side of ensuring that we protected our staff and we legally followed the guidelines there. However, when I was called concerning your questions concerning timelines I did check with our legal council and they thought that was something they thought we could share. So I’m willing to respond to those questions.

M: When did you learn about the incident concerning Bruce Brotzman in the MU Ellis Library?

C: You know, my initial information concerning that allegation was sometime I believe in late October or early November in the form of a rumor. Just a third, fourth, fifth-person rumor, I don’t know exactly how many parties. I heard this as a rumor. I did come back to my office and visit with my staff members and asked what they knew and the history they had with the organization and with this principal, did they have any reason to believe there could be any veracity to that rumor, at all. I was told pretty unequivocally, sure, 99.9 percent that it was probably just that a rumor. Given that, I certainly did not act upon, knowing that that was a rumor. Probably three weeks later I heard that rumor again in the community and, of course, hearing it again, my concern level was heightened and as such, I not only asked my staff again, of my hearing of the rumor, but I also decided to call Dr. Brotzman.

M: When was this?

C: Probably mid-November, perhaps right before Thanksgiving. So, Dr. Brotzman did come in, and I informed him of what I knew at that time he indicated that he had also heard a report of such as this and not knowing what was it in it exactly, but assured me that there were errors and that the report was not true.

M: Did you ever see the report yourself?

C: You know later I did see the report.

M: How did you obtain the report?

C: I requested the information.

M: Do you remember when you requested the information?

C: That would have been after the meeting, so early December.

M: When you did speak with Mr. Brotzman in mid-November, he was saying there were errors in the report?

C: Yes.

M: What kind of errors did he say?

C: He wasn’t specific but he assured me that there were factual inaccuracies in the allegations.

M: How did you leave it with him after you met with him? How did you decide to handle that situation?

C: Well, given the fact that he indicated to me that the report was not true, and I took that at face value.

L: Did you talk with the MU police at all about the report?

C : No.

M: Had you ever spoken to Mr. Brotzman aside from that one incident in mid-November? Or about any other incidents? So, in other words, have you talked to him about his behavior after that? So your conversation in November was the only conversation you had about that incident?

C: Yes.

M: Did you ever talk to his about any other incident that would be related as in any kind of disorderly conduct or any other allegations stemming from sexual misconduct?

C: You know, I indicated that I had not spoken to him again about that incident once he assured me that it wasn’t true. I certainly have spoken with Dr. Brotzman about lots of things.

M: But have you spoken about any incidents about other sexual misconduct allegations?

C: Not that I, no, not that I would comment on at the time.

M: No? Or not that would comment on at this time?

C: No, no comment at this time.

A: I’m sorry, I just want to be clear. You’re not ruling out that there were other incidents, or you’re saying there were, saying unequivocally, no, there were no other incidents?

C: I’m saying no comment on that issue or any other personnel issue. But if we’re talking about the allegation made by the MU police, I’m saying that’s what I’m gong to talk about today. There was not another comment or investigation on my behalf or another conversation concerning that. You know, I’m wanting to make clear that certainly that was an allegation. An allegation that he and I did visit about to clarify the status of that allegation. I’m just wanting to reaffirm that as an allegation I was concerned yesterday to read in your newspaper that in fact one of the specifics in terms of that allegations was reported as a factual occurrence, that in fact Dr. Brotzman had touched a student that made the initial report or the employee that made the initial report. And that was reported as a fact when from what I know that was never even alleged. I just want to make sure I’m factually accurate in terms of my profession.

T: That was something you read in this publication?

C: Yes, does anyone have a copy of the newspaper?

S: This is today’s paper.

Mallory: I think actually what it says is that “tried to do the same” to Hoffman. Of course, that was never even alleged.

S: Well, we’ll take a look at that and we’ll see if we need a correction and we’ll run a correction on that.

A: This is a procedural question. In that instance when sexual allegations are made against school employees of this nature or in the broader area of misconduct, is there some kind of defined procedure in terms of how those complaints are investigated? It sounds like there was some latitude on your part, you made the judgment call that Dr. Brotzman gave you the assurance that the allegations were baseless, and that was sufficient, and my question is, is there some kind of formal or written procedure that would take you one step further such as contacting the police or contacting the victim or doing any sort of, you know, whether it be from you or your staff, anything far and beyond just talking to Dr. Brotzman?

C: Let me assure you there was no latitude on the part of this organization when it comes to the safety of staff or students. And at this point from the information that I had, the safety of staff and students was never an issue. So, that’s not an area where there’s latitude, but exercise, nor was there ever an allegation brought to me that any students or staff were in any type of danger. As I indicated to you I found this information out through a rumor. So there was never an allegation brought to me.

M: When was the board made aware of the rumor?

C: Hmmm, I did make the board aware of the information I had received and the declination of any wrongdoing on the part of Brotzman at some point, I can’t tell you exactly.

M: And did they ever get a chance to look at the report to know what that trespass warning was for?

C: No, they did not.

M: Were they aware that it existed?

C: Well, yes, they were. I told them.

M: No, I’m not talking about the rumor. There’s a difference between the rumor and the actually report itself.

C: And I’m talking about the report. I told them that there was a report there but that Dr. Brotzman had indicated that uh, there (is) no reason believe it.

L: What was their reaction to that information?

C: Well, they thanked me for telling them.

L: Did they think you should’ve investigated that further, like talk with the MU police about the one-year bar from MU library, at all? Did they think you should pursue and investigate further?

C: Well, I don’t know what they thought, they never asked me to do that.

A: If Principal Brotzman responded to you that the incident was without merit, then why did he resign in such a short time?

C: I have no idea.

A: Was his resignation at all connected to this in your opinion?

C: In my opinion, I have no opinion on it. Um, factually I don’t know that it was. That is only something he could tell you.

T: Did Dr. Brotzman indicate in his letter of resignation why he was leaving?

C: I think he did, to pursue other positions in administration.

A: I think we can all sort of make the assumption that his leave of absence last week is related to this incident, so I would ask the same question, if again, if these allegations are without merit, then why the departure from his position through the leave of absence?

C: And again I would say I don’t have the luxury in terms of making assumptions, such as that perhaps you do, but to find out the real reason you need to ask Dr. Brotzman.

A: Did you want him to stay?

C: I want all of our quality administrators to stay, and Dr. Brotzman is certainly one of those as his record has proven.

W: Dr. Chase, what other conversations between the time the allegations were made public and the time Dr. Brotzman took a leave of absence. Did you advise him on taking a leave?

C: Advise him on whether or not he should take a leave? No.

A: Perhaps our coverage of this incident was perhaps mishandled or blew out of proportion. Do you feel in light of your, what seems like your continuing high regard for Mr. Brotzman, that this incident was blown out of proportion? Has this incident and the coverage of this incident essentially run him out of town and out of a job he could still perform at a high level?

C: I wouldn’t necessarily say it was the coverage of the incident that may have impinged on that, and again I don’t know why Dr. Brotzman chose not to move forward on his employment with the district. Again, that’s something I couldn’t weigh in on, because I don’t know it terms of the coverage. I just know that the system that we have, what we have in terms of disseminating information it, is what it is. When you have information you certainly have to follow up on it. I don’t fault that at all. I think that keeps the entire system honest and I am fine with that. I guess do have some concern when allegations are reported as facts.

M: Did you give a reference for Mr. Brotzman to Cedar Rapids Public School District?

C: No, I didn’t.

M: Any kind of personal recommendation? Any kind of personal call at home? I understand that you can’t give a formal letter of reference, but when it is outside, for some reason, if someone called you they could give an off-the-cuff personal recommendation.

C: I don’t know about your information, but I can give a letter of recommendation when requested.

M: So, did you have any communication with Cedar Rapids?

C: I did have communication.

M: What kind of communication?

C: I had a communication with their HR person.

M: What can you tell us about that discussion?

C: Well without legal counsel here, I don’t know how much I am allowed to say other than I was asked questions concerning Dr. Brotzman’s ability as an employee and as a school principal.

(This portion is from Missourian reporters’ notes.)

A: Would you hire Mr. Brotzman if he chose to apply for a position at this district?

C: I would probably not comment on that right now.

A: Did you feel any obligation to tell Cedar Rapids Public School?

C: I felt no responsibility to do that given it was just an allegation and it had not been proven. )

Taped transcript continues:

L: Back to your closed meeting held last week, you gave a statement that the public should trust your actions and the process and how you were dealing with Brotzman’s ordeal, and I was just wondering whether you could explain what those processes are?

C: Let me clarify it didn’t say that the public should trust me. I thanked the public for trusting the board of education and administrative staff.

L: OK.

C: The processes are the processes that we follow for any hirings or review of staff and those are in the policy manual. Certainly, those processes are guided in making sure we have the best people in place to educate our students and these individuals protect the safety of our students and staff.